Alarm Panal Removal ??

hedges

Hi All,

Looking for some advice if it’s available

I’ve a problem with my alarm. It’s a HKC Secure Watch system.

The problem is the panel seems to have died. There is power going to it. I’ve tried to reset the panel using some of the advice from previous posts, i.e. cutting the power, battery and pulling the jumper, etc, but the panel seems to stay blank and won’t accept any codes.

After a "chat" with the wife, I’ve learned that over the last few days the alarm was acting up. Going off at night for no reason and showing up a fault, most likely due to the lovely weather getting to the window sensors and showing up a fault. Anyway she hit the panel a wallop out of frustration. Yes I know not such a good idea, we've had that discussion!!

So I’m thinking that she may have either busted the panel completely or hopefully just dislodged a wire at the back. Problem is I don’t know how tell if the panel is FUBARed.

Apart from the obvious fact that the panel is blank, is there something else I can check to confirm it need replacing, or is there another way to reset the alarm system

Any advice welcome

Thanks
Hedges

altor

hedges wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for some advice if it’s available

I’ve a problem with my alarm. It’s a HKC Secure Watch system.

The problem is the panel seems to have died. There is power going to it. I’ve tried to reset the panel using some of the advice from previous posts, i.e. cutting the power, battery and pulling the jumper, etc, but the panel seems to stay blank and won’t accept any codes.

After a "chat" with the wife, I’ve learned that over the last few days the alarm was acting up. Going off at night for no reason and showing up a fault, most likely due to the lovely weather getting to the window sensors and showing up a fault. Anyway she hit the panel a wallop out of frustration. Yes I know not such a good idea, we've had that discussion!!

So I’m thinking that she may have either busted the panel completely or hopefully just dislodged a wire at the back. Problem is I don’t know how tell if the panel is FUBARed.

Apart from the obvious fact that the panel is blank, is there something else I can check to confirm it need replacing, or is there another way to reset the alarm system

Any advice welcome

Thanks
Hedges

It sounds like the alarm is eng locked as you cant default the alarm. There are four fuses on the board, one of these could be blown. Regarding defaulting the panel, there is a way if it is eng locked depending on how old the alarm is. How long have you the alarm installed ?

KoolKid

When you say the panel stays blank I presume you mean the keypad disply.
Is there any power on the keypad? Any leds lit?
Did your wife hit the main panel or the keypad?
You could check the four connections into the keypad if thats what was hit.

hedges

altor wrote: »

It sounds like the alarm is eng locked as you cant default the alarm. There are four fuses on the board, one of these could be blown. Regarding defaulting the panel, there is a way if it is eng locked depending on how old the alarm is. How long have you the alarm installed ?

Altor
Had a look at the fuses and they sem fine, The alarm is about seven years old

Koolkid
Sorry, it was the keypad that was hit. I should have said that. The display remains clear. there is power and the leds are lit, Ive checked the wire in the back and there are fine

altor

hedges wrote: »

Altor
The alarm is about seven years old

You can replace the chips on the board to default the panel as it is eng locked.
I would say the keypad on the alarm is faulty, you could take the keypad off the wall and wire it directly into the panel on a small length of cable to eliminate a cable problem.

KoolKid

The fact that the keypad is blank after it was hit rules out a cable problem. I would be confident a new keypad will solve your problem. Who installed the system? . I may be able to get engineer code for you..

Dan_

koolkid wrote: »

The fact that the keypad is blank after it was hit rules out a cable problem. I would be confident a new keypad will solve your problem. Who installed the system? . I may be able to get engineer code for you..

Some of the early HKC panels developed com's faults...a new keypad should solve your problem.

altor

Dan_ wrote: »

Some of the early HKC panels developed com's faults...a new keypad should solve your problem.

This is true but i would try down power and power back up the alarm before buying a new keypad for the alarm..

KoolKid

Worth a try but the actions of his Mrs make it unlikely to be the Comms fault Dan is talking about.

Dan_

True, if it turns out to be the keypad i would recommend replacing the panel as well, for the price of the keypad alone, 80ish, you would be better spending the other 40 and get both, then you have another 2 zones to split up your system... just a thought:)

KoolKid

Good point. Providing the OP is comfortable with the work involved.
Then again for that money replace with a SigNet 100 & get a much more up to date system .

fred funk }{

I wouldn't replace it with the same HKC panel, they are out of date now and are near the end of their time. As Koolkid said, if you're going to replace it replace it with a modern panel.

hedges

Thanks all for the advice

Just few more questions if I may

Firstly, I forgot to mention, when I cut the power and the battery to the panel and then turn it back on, the bells start to ring, internal and external. Not sure if that was important information, but probable should have said it. If I had the correct engineer code would that be accepted by the panel, even if it was blank? Is it supposed to go blank when its engineer locked?

Secondly, I’m not an expert and don’t have alot of experience with installing of fixing alarms, if a end up getting a new keypad is it simply pull the four wire from the old and connect to the new, or is it, as I’m thinking, need to be programmed. And upgrading the keypad how to I ensure that it’s compatible with the panel, or are most keypad common to panels.

Thank again
Hedges

altor

hedges wrote: »

Thanks all for the advice

Just few more questions if I may

Firstly, I forgot to mention, when I cut the power and the battery to the panel and then turn it back on, the bells start to ring, internal and external. Not sure if that was important information, but probable should have said it. If I had the correct engineer code would that be accepted by the panel, even if it was blank? Is it supposed to go blank when its engineer locked?

It will do that as the panel goes into alarm and needs to be unset by your user code after you power the alarm back up. The screen on your keypad is gone faulty so replacing the keypad should fix the problem.

hedges wrote: »

Secondly, I’m not an expert and don’t have alot of experience with installing of fixing alarms, if a end up getting a new keypad is it simply pull the four wire from the old and connect to the new, or is it, as I’m thinking, need to be programmed. And upgrading the keypad how to I ensure that it’s compatible with the panel, or are most keypad common to panels.

Thank again
Hedges

The HKC system only have one type of keypad that you can buy so it will be compatible with your alarm. The alarm is already programmed so replacing the keypad is only a mater of changing the wires as you said, just note where 1-4 go into the new keypad from the old one and dont touch the wires off each other as there is a fuse relating to the keypad power that could blow in the panel.

Any problems let me know..

hedges

Thanks all

Thanks for the help lads

Ive order a new keypad, should have it the weekend

Ill let yous know how it goes

Thanks again

Hedges

KoolKid

Good luck with that hedges. hope thats all it is..
Any probs give us a shout.

hedges

Right Lads,

Im back looking for more help

I got a new keypad and fitted same

No problems there

Once the power was turned back on, the alarm bells activated inside and out. I entered my code and that shut the bells up.

Now here's the problem...

The light for showing a fault is lit, and when I enter my code I get the following message:
"Comms Fault" "Panel cannot set " "Contact Engineer"

As you have guessed I can’t set the alarm now.

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I can do next (If Anything) would be welcome

Thanks

Hedges

KoolKid

Did you disconnect anything else when trying to fix this?
Do you have engineer access?

hedges

Koolkid

I took out the fuse on the mains, when i cut the power, as a precaution and disconected that battery, that's about it.

Dont have the engineer code, sorry

Hedges

KoolKid

If you try & set the system does the keypad respond?
If so is comms fault the only message that displays?
If so double check your key pad connections (especially terminal 3 & 4)
Check against the keypad terminals in the panel ensuring that you have not reversed 3 & 4 (usually blue & yellow)

hedges

koolkid wrote: »

If you try & set the system does the keypad respond?
If so is comms fault the only message that displays?
If so double check your key pad connections (especially terminal 3 & 4)
Check against the keypad terminals in the panel ensuring that you have not reversed 3 & 4 (usually blue & yellow)

Sorry Koolkid,
Back again

The keypad responds when I try to set the panal
The message the panal gives when I try to set is as follows "Comms Fault" "Panel cannot set " "Contact Engineer"
Ive checkd the wires and they all seem to be wired correctly

Any advise

Hedges

KoolKid

OK so the keypad is working.
Is anything else disconnected?
Do you have engineer access?

hedges

Nothing else disconnected, that Im aware of
No access to engineer code, tried the usual defaults and no luck

KoolKid

Do you have any point ID sensors on this system?
Can you fully browse the user menu?

hedges

koolkid wrote: »

Do you have any point ID sensors on this system?
Can you fully browse the user menu?

Sorry,
dont know what a point ID sensors is

and all that comes up on the keypad is the same message when i put in the code

KoolKid

Previousally dis you have access to the user menu?
When it was working & you entered your code did the system are straight away? or did it enter the user menu?

hedges

Yep, I had access to the user menu, could look up alarm activations etc on it.

KoolKid

Ok so we need to backtrack a bit.
Have you connected the keypad directly into the panel on a short lenght of cable?

hedges

Nope

I know I shouldn't have, but I asumed it was just the keypad at fault and not the wires

KoolKid

Nedd to eliminate as much as possible.
Bring the keypad upto the panel & wire in on a short lenght of cable..
Do you know anyone else with a HKC system? It would help to be able to verify the keypad is good.

hedges

Give me a bit of time and i'll rewire the keypad back on a short wire.

Keypad is new and should be working fully

hedges

You would think i've a spare bit of wire in the shed ??

No such luck

Ill be back tomorrow,

Anything else I can try in the mean time

KoolKid

If there are any spare cores on the keypad cable you could try using a different pair to the blue & yellow.

hedges

Right, Im Back Again

Got it wired again on short wire.
Checked wires, no problem there, same as before

KoolKid

You need to eliminate either the panel or the keypad.
Either try the keypad on another panel or try another keypad on that panel.

hedges

The keypad that I've wired is brand new, fresh out of the box, so i'd say its a problem with the panel

KoolKid

But on the other hand the original damage was done to the keypad not the panel,
You will only find out by eliminating one or the other. You other option would be bring it back to the supplier & ask them to check it on a panel.
If its good then look at a new panel.
As mentioned earlier in the post , if you are looking at a panel & keypad go for the SigNet or something more up to date than HKC.

altor

hedges wrote: »

Right Lads,

Im back looking for more help

I got a new keypad and fitted same

No problems there

Once the power was turned back on, the alarm bells activated inside and out. I entered my code and that shut the bells up.

Now here's the problem...

The light for showing a fault is lit, and when I enter my code I get the following message:
"Comms Fault" "Panel cannot set " "Contact Engineer"

As you have guessed I can’t set the alarm now.

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I can do next (If Anything) would be welcome

Thanks

Hedges

Hi hedges,

There is nothing wrong with the new keypad.

The reason this is happening is because the keypad has an Id on the alarm, e.g. the keypad was identified like an ID sensor on the alarm when it was first installed. Replacing the keypad with a new one will give you the fault that you are having. The only way to fix this is either get the eng code off the alarm and erase the original keypad or replace the alarm circuit board and reprogram the alarm.

Sorry there is no other way around this..

KoolKid

Was hoping that wasn't the comms problem,Hedges..Sure.. thats HKC for ya!!!

Anyway all is not lost . Do not waste your money on a new HKC panel.
PM me your details & I will get it defaulted for you.

altor

The problem was more so down to the installer who eng locked the panel, not the brand..

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

The problem was more so down to the installer who eng locked the panel, not the brand..

Is that not the safe thing to do?????
If it were not locked the system could be defaulted & disarmed in under a minute. All the information required to do this is freely available in every engineer manual & on the net.

altor

koolkid wrote: »

Is that not the safe thing to do?????
If it were not locked the system could be defaulted & disarmed in under a minute. All the information required to do this is freely available in every engineer manual & on the net.

Its a of making more money off the people who own the alarm so they have to stick with the same installer..

Regardless of the alarm being eng locked it can be disabled in less than a minute :rolleyes:

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Its a of making more money off the people who own the alarm so they have to stick with the same installer..

As any decent engineer can default a system how is it a method of making someone stick with the one installer. ????????


Altor it seems you want to pick an argument about everything latley. Thats fine by me, but show a bit of respect to the OP & start a new thread if you want to argue the points re engineer locking of panels.
Better still do a search. Its been hammered out many times..
If your happy to leave your panel unlocked & your customers vunerable thats fine. I lock mine but will happily unlock for free if a customer is unhappy with our service . Surly thats the best option for all concerned. Would you agree?

altor

koolkid wrote: »

As any decent engineer can default a system how is it a method of making someone stick with the one installer. ????????

If the panel is eng locked and has to be defaulted and reprogrammed who pays for this service ?

koolkid wrote: »

Altor it seems you want to pick an argument about everything latley. Thats fine by me, but show a bit of respect to the OP & start a new thread if you want to argue the points re engineer locking of panels.
Better still do a search. Its been hammered out many times..
If your happy to leave your panel unlocked & your customers vunerable thats fine. I lock mine but will happily unlock for free if a customer is unhappy with our service . Surly thats the best option for all concerned. Would you agree?

Yes i do agree with you, but not all installers would offer this service for free.

I am not on here to argue koolkid, just to give my opinion..

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

If the panel is eng locked and has to be defaulted and reprogrammed who pays for this service ?

Obviousally if you have a new company servicing your system they would have no problem including this in the work they are doing.

altor wrote: »

Yes i do agree with you, but not all installers would offer this service for free.

Whether they do or not does not really matter. If the customer want to change companies they will. If the new company the call out wont or cant unlock the panel then they don't deserve the business anyway.

altor

Agreed

hedges

Gentlemen

Thank you for your time and comments

Hedges

KoolKid

Your welcome..

altor

hedges wrote: »

Gentlemen

Thank you for your time and comments

Hedges

Your welcome, we are always here to help..