Chinese Suppliers

Mr Biz

Good evening..

I've narrowed it down to two manufacturers of a product in China. Both have "Gold Supplier" status.. However, I believe that some "Gold Suppliers" have been known to send product samples etc, then disappear after you transfer funds on first order.

Have generally found importing fine but there are more and more scams appearing lately..

What are your experiences dealing with manufacturers these days?

Interesting link here..
http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/business-articles-and-resources/16980-how-self-check-your-chinese-suppliers.html

What are your experiences with the following:

www.alibaba.com

www.tradekey.com

www.globalsources.com

Also some interesting links/info here..
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Top-B2B-Sourcing-Websites&id=2052776

Diabhal_Glas

Go to Shanghaiexpat.com and post a note asking for some opinions on your potential new supplier

RoadKillTs

www.alibaba.com

I buy off Alibaba quite a bit. Never had any problems, Its full of scammers though so I only deal with wholesalers that accept Paypal / Credit Card.

Have heard loads of horror stores about people buying "stock" using Western Transfer. :eek:

J_Wholesale

If you're spending real money, than you shouldn't be sending money direct to a manufacturer in China. You should have an agent out there who deals with the supplier for you. You pay an initial deposit to start the manufacturing process, and you wire the remaining money to your agent when manufacturing is complete. He can then check the goods, arrange shipping, and pay the final installment to the manufacturer. Typically, an agent in China would charge about 3%. This is all assuming you're spending more than a few hundred Euro.

If you're spending in 5 figures, then you have to go to China. Don't even think about spending this sort of money without a face to face meeting. This also allows you to build real relationships, with your agent as well as your suppliers.

Mr Biz

Shanghaiexpat.com

Interesting!

You should have an agent out there who deals with the supplier for you. You pay an initial deposit to start the manufacturing process, and you wire the remaining money to your agent when manufacturing is complete. He can then check the goods, arrange shipping, and pay the final installment to the manufacturer. Typically, an agent in China would charge about 3%.

Have you tried an agent on first/second shipment then gone direct with manufacturer/supplier?

Much appreciated!

J_Wholesale

Mr Biz wrote: »

Interesting!

Have you tried an agent on first/second shipment then gone direct with manufacturer/supplier?

Much appreciated!

Afraid not. You can't assume that just because orders 1 and 2 turned out alright, that the third order will as well. We've had cases where what we thought were good suppliers messed things up after we'd been dealing with them for some time. If you only discover this when you start opening boxes here in Ireland, then you'll be writing off a lot of money.

Aside from that, a good agent will usually pay for themselves through finding reduced price shipping / advising you when it's cheapest to ship, and overseeing or handling the packing.

Mr Biz

Afraid not. You can't assume that just because orders 1 and 2 turned out alright, that the third order will as well. We've had cases where what we thought were good suppliers messed things up after we'd been dealing with them for some time. If you only discover this when you start opening boxes here in Ireland, then you'll be writing off a lot of money.

Aside from that, a good agent will usually pay for themselves through finding reduced price shipping / advising you when it's cheapest to ship, and overseeing or handling the packing.

Cheers.. The reason I ask is that im confident that as its one product (non electrical) that the manufacturing process will be sucessful 99.9% of the time. My only concern is finding a legitimate manufacturer to start with it.. Is it possible to hire an agent to initially source a manfacturer? Example http://www.withinchina.com/price.htm

Many thanks

J_Wholesale

Mr Biz wrote: »

The reason I ask is that im confident that as its one product (non electrical) that the manufacturing process will be sucessful 99.9% of the time.

Hate to say this, but that's not the case. When we're selecting products, we make a point of looking at every possible area that can go wrong. For example, if soldering of any kind is involved, it can go seriously wrong; if there are moving or hanging parts, the joints can go wrong; if there are metal or metalic parts, they may neglect the polishing stage, in which case the entire shipment is worthless. The odd breakage is expected, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's the wider problems that affect entire manufacturing runs that are the real problem. Truth is, there is no product that is simple enough to manufacture that it cannot be messed up. And if they do mess it up, they won't tell you, they'll just ship the goods.

It's hard to say anymore without knowing what the product is.

Mr Biz

Thanks again for the info.. Understand where your coming from.

In a nutshell, I like a new product which just came onto the market and is relatively easy to mass produce, has no mechanical or electrical parts hence my confidence in the product. Ideally i'd prefer to travel to China and check out the company myself but if an agent can save time by finding a professional manufacturer for a reasonable fee i'd be glad to go down that route..

I'd greatly appreciate if anyone could post any credible agents/agencies they may have dealt with..

TIA!

Mickk

What cities are the factories you have found in?

Mr Biz

Looking into various areas..

Shanghai mainly.

One company is a "Gold Supplier" and "Trust Pass" member although ive read of scams involving members which hold both. You wonder how they manage to get around such rules..

http://img.alibaba.com/others/popup/trust_030325.html

Rest assured that when you contact a TrustPass Supplier, you are dealing with a legitimate company.

pog it

Just out of curiosity, when a supplier on Alibaba says 'minimum order 500 units' etc., how generally flexible are they in general in supplying less than the minimum if you try to negotiate with them?

For example I'd like to try out a new product but if they don't prove a hit I don't wana be stuck with 480 of them obviously.

Atlas_IRL

I had an idea for a product that i was thinking of importing in from China however like yourself didnt want to import 500 without testing the market first so i bought the product on ebay to see what the reaction was.

You need to prove their is a market before you buy your goods othewise you can be wasting your money.

J_Wholesale

pog it wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, when a supplier on Alibaba says 'minimum order 500 units' etc., how generally flexible are they in general in supplying less than the minimum if you try to negotiate with them?

For example I'd like to try out a new product but if they don't prove a hit I don't wana be stuck with 480 of them obviously.

That depends. If you're dealing with a real manufacturer or someone who is themselves dealing with a manufacturer, rather than buying pre made items off a shelf, then the answer is: not flexible at all.

Minimum order quantities like this are put in place primarilly because it's simply not worth breaking out the molds, instructing the staff, and running the machinary, for any quantities smaller than those suggested.

One thing they will often be open to is varying colours or sizes (100 units in each of 5 colours, for example), as this entails little extra effort. But as for 20-30 items, you'll only get this if you're buying further up the chain, many steps removed from the manufacturing, and just as many steps removed from the quality control.

You don't get to commercially sample in this way (see what sells), when you're buying at these sorts of prices. That's where your local Irish and English wholesalers come in (at a 300% markup).

Mickk

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

I had an idea for a product that i was thinking of importing in from China however like yourself didnt want to import 500 without testing the market first so i bought the product on ebay to see what the reaction was.

You need to prove their is a market before you buy your goods othewise you can be wasting your money.

I think they are very negotiable, talk with them for a while and talk about full container loads, then when you are ready to order just say you want 100 to test the quality. They will charge you mold/tooling/setup fees but it will still be well worth your while.

Mr Biz, I have very trustworthy people who check out factories/quality for me in Yongkang (about 6 hours south of shanghai) or Nantong (about 2 hours north) if any of the factories are there. They don't take a comission and just charge 40 us dollars a day for checking stuff for me. They both speak good english and know exactly what I am looking for.

Atlas_IRL

You were lucky you found someone reliable Mickk as China Green may have been expensive. Did you look into EI and China Green at all? Went to a conference on doing business in China and Enterprise Ireland have a big presence there to help Irish companies and do help a lot. I can send you the conference slides if you need them.

Mr Biz

Mr Biz, I have very trustworthy people who check out factories/quality for me in Yongkang (about 6 hours south of shanghai) or Nantong (about 2 hours north) if any of the factories are there. They don't take a comission and just charge 40 us dollars a day for checking stuff for me. They both speak good english and know exactly what I am looking for.

Cheers Mick! Sounds good.. Will more than likely take a trip over but please pm me their details..

luscaa

any chance u cud send me slides also,thanks

shoutman

I'm currently in contact with a few chinese suppliers via alibaba.

I'm looking to get some drawstring bags and looking to get about 6000 of them as an initial order.
I've been quoted $.9 per unit (including logo printing and shipping by sea to dublin)

The price for a sample was $50 and a further $40 if it is express delivered by DHL door to door. Am I wrong in thinking that this simple price is ridiculous? Obviously if we go ahead with a 6k order from the supplier the cost will be taken into consideration but for a sample I think $90 for a small canvas bag is huge?
Am I wrong in thinking this? Do set up and printing costs for a few units really amount to this or are they pulling a fast one?
Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.

safesecure.ie

It does seem a bit excessive although do they have to factor in a cost for a template/print stamp to print your design?

Although alot of the manufacturers I've dealt with have deducted the sample price from the total order.

JohnThomas09

Does anyone on here have any experience importing T-shirts from china.was thinking of sourcing a contact in China to produce some for me.
Any advice?

Lucky Dub

shoutman wrote: »

I'm currently in contact with a few chinese suppliers via alibaba.

I'm looking to get some drawstring bags and looking to get about 6000 of them as an initial order.
I've been quoted $.9 per unit (including logo printing and shipping by sea to dublin)

The price for a sample was $50 and a further $40 if it is express delivered by DHL door to door. Am I wrong in thinking that this simple price is ridiculous? Obviously if we go ahead with a 6k order from the supplier the cost will be taken into consideration but for a sample I think $90 for a small canvas bag is huge?
Am I wrong in thinking this? Do set up and printing costs for a few units really amount to this or are they pulling a fast one?
Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.

Be very careful with Alibaba, ask the company if they have any references from customers in UK or Ireland, this will give you an indication.
Over 14,000 companies in Southern China have gone belly up in the past year or so.
PM me if you need further advice or assistance.

21inchguns

shoutman wrote: »

I'm currently in contact with a few chinese suppliers via alibaba.

I'm looking to get some drawstring bags and looking to get about 6000 of them as an initial order.
I've been quoted $.9 per unit (including logo printing and shipping by sea to dublin)

The price for a sample was $50 and a further $40 if it is express delivered by DHL door to door. Am I wrong in thinking that this simple price is ridiculous? Obviously if we go ahead with a 6k order from the supplier the cost will be taken into consideration but for a sample I think $90 for a small canvas bag is huge?
Am I wrong in thinking this? Do set up and printing costs for a few units really amount to this or are they pulling a fast one?
Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.

They get loads of inquiry's and detailed emails every day from kids dreaming about starting a business. The way they see it is that if you are serious about spending 6k with them you shouldn't have any problem spending 50 dollars on a sample and you are not just some kid looking for a free teeshirt... For what it's worth I never thought China was great for teeshirts, china is great for products high in natural resuorces like iron, coal, stone, marble because they have it so readily available.

For teeshirts I would look at companies in countries like turkey, panama, honduras ect. Go into any big clothes shop and look at the labels to see where the stuff is made, they will have done the hard work for you and found the best place to make them.

shoutman

21inchguns wrote: »

They get loads of inquiry's and detailed emails every day from kids dreaming about starting a business. The way they see it is that if you are serious about spending 6k with them you shouldn't have any problem spending 50 dollars on a sample and you are not just some kid looking for a free teeshirt... For what it's worth I never thought China was great for teeshirts, china is great for products high in natural resuorces like iron, coal, stone, marble because they have it so readily available.

For teeshirts I would look at companies in countries like turkey, panama, honduras ect. Go into any big clothes shop and look at the labels to see where the stuff is made, they will have done the hard work for you and found the best place to make them.

Think you are pointing this message towards the wrong poster, someone after me posted about clothes, I'm looking for canvas bags amongst other things.
I didn't limit myself to China, but it seemed that the majority of sellers on alibaba are located in China.

shoutman

Any more opinions about what the price for a bag sample (selling at 80cent per unit for a 6000 order) should be?

J_Wholesale

It seems quite reasonable to me. If the company you're dealing with is a genuine, established business, then they probably have a minimum charge for samples, purely to weed out the armchair business people who have little intention of placing that $6000 order. Bottom line, if someone isn't prepared to spend $50 plus shipping to sample a $5000 order they are about to place, then they're probably not that serious to begin with.

Talk is cheap. Just because you're dealing with a Chinese business, doesn't mean that they don't know that too.

We're an online wholesale business based in Ireland and selling to the UK, and we occasionally get requests for samples. Our answer is the same every time: "that's what our small minimum order size is for" (about €100, including shipping and vat). We consider anyone who's not prepared to spend €100 to test the waters a waste of our time.

What do you think is a fair price for a sample? And bear in mind they probably get a number of these requests a week, with few of them turning into actual sales.

Cianos

If anyone knows of a good agent who can quality check, and who operates in the Ningbo area please let me know.

shoutman

J_Wholesale wrote: »

It seems quite reasonable to me. If the company you're dealing with is a genuine, established business, then they probably have a minimum charge for samples, purely to weed out the armchair business people who have little intention of placing that $6000 order. Bottom line, if someone isn't prepared to spend $50 plus shipping to sample a $5000 order they are about to place, then they're probably not that serious to begin with.

Talk is cheap. Just because you're dealing with a Chinese business, doesn't mean that they don't know that too.

We're an online wholesale business based in Ireland and selling to the UK, and we occasionally get requests for samples. Our answer is the same every time: "that's what our small minimum order size is for" (about €100, including shipping and vat). We consider anyone who's not prepared to spend €100 to test the waters a waste of our time.

What do you think is a fair price for a sample? And bear in mind they probably get a number of these requests a week, with few of them turning into actual sales.

Thanks for the reply,
to be honest I wouldn't have a clue what the sample fee would be. It's my first time doing any sort of purchasing in bulk and just wanted to check that I wasn't getting 'done' here. TBH I don't think it was the $50 charge that concerned me, it was more when he said it would be a $40 cost for shipping....

James Hamilton

You may also be interested to try the verified suppliers at www.globalsources.com. Most people find their China suppliers more trustworthy than those on other sites. Particularly because their verified suppliers have all been visited 3 times or more by Global Sources staff to make sure they are real companies, with a commitment to exporting. Once you register (Free), you can send inquiries directly to suppliers and request samples.

RUDOLF289

shoutman wrote: »

Thanks for the reply,
to be honest I wouldn't have a clue what the sample fee would be. It's my first time doing any sort of purchasing in bulk and just wanted to check that I wasn't getting 'done' here. TBH I don't think it was the $50 charge that concerned me, it was more when he said it would be a $40 cost for shipping....

Hello Shoutman,

from my experience, Us$ 40.00 as shipping cost is quite reasonable. I am sure that if viewed against the actual cost of the item it sounds a lot. You could ask your supplier to post it to you, but that would probably take longer and give you only a marginal reduction.

When you are looking at shipping a larger quantity, feel free to contact me for a second opinion on shipping and customs matters.

Best regards,
Rudolf289

million79

Mr Biz wrote: »

Looking into various areas..

Shanghai mainly.

One company is a "Gold Supplier" and "Trust Pass" member although ive read of scams involving members which hold both. You wonder how they manage to get around such rules..

http://img.alibaba.com/others/popup/trust_030325.html

Hi,Mr.Biz
Don't get supplier in Shanghai area,you would pay through your nose for your products,and don't use alibaba,it's true someone said alibaba full of scamers.I'm from China,living in Ireland over 6years,I know how to find real manufacturers,would be happy to assist you source in China.Pm me.

Lucky Dub

million79 wrote: »

Hi,Mr.Biz
Don't get supplier in Shanghai area,you would pay through your nose for your products,and don't use alibaba,it's true someone said alibaba full of scamers.I'm from China,living in Ireland over 6years,I know how to find real manufacturers,would be happy to assist you source in China.Pm me.

Can you show some references or proof please?

I Drink It Up!

21inchguns wrote: »

They get loads of inquiry's and detailed emails every day from kids dreaming about starting a business. The way they see it is that if you are serious about spending 6k with them you shouldn't have any problem spending 50 dollars on a sample and you are not just some kid looking for a free teeshirt... For what it's worth I never thought China was great for teeshirts, china is great for products high in natural resuorces like iron, coal, stone, marble because they have it so readily available.

For teeshirts I would look at companies in countries like turkey, panama, honduras ect. Go into any big clothes shop and look at the labels to see where the stuff is made, they will have done the hard work for you and found the best place to make them.

China imports coal from Australia. They are great at making Lithium products too...all of which comes in from Bolivia....:P

Axwell

million79 wrote: »

Hi,Mr.Biz
Don't get supplier in Shanghai area,you would pay through your nose for your products,and don't use alibaba,it's true someone said alibaba full of scamers.I'm from China,living in Ireland over 6years,I know how to find real manufacturers,would be happy to assist you source in China.Pm me.

As the poster above says have you a business in this area or some references or anything? Thanks

million79

I've been importing some small stuff to Ireland,something like laptop sleeve cases,sunglass,mouce.What I did is to go directly to manufacturers's website(almost in Chinese version),make a call to negociate with quality,and bargain with them(this is important).Compared to the quote on ALibaba,or some so-called agencies in Shanghai,I always got at least 20% cheaper.Have to try to avoid mMany middle man,that's the tip.

PRFCHCC

I have recently set up a business and am going to China in the next couple of months to try and source some clothing and electronic items to import to Ireland. How would I go about obtaining contacts in China, and what cities would be the best to go to?

Offy

Mr Biz wrote: »

Good evening..

I've narrowed it down to two manufacturers of a product in China. Both have "Gold Supplier" status.. However, I believe that some "Gold Suppliers" have been known to send product samples etc, then disappear after you transfer funds on first order.

Have generally found importing fine but there are more and more scams appearing lately..

What are your experiences dealing with manufacturers these days?

Interesting link here..
http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/business-articles-and-resources/16980-how-self-check-your-chinese-suppliers.html

What are your experiences with the following:

www.alibaba.com

www.tradekey.com

www.globalsources.com

Also some interesting links/info here..
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Top-B2B-Sourcing-Websites&id=2052776

Ive used globalsources before and I found exactly what I was looking for. If your looking for manufacturers of electronic circuit boards, polymer components or metal components PM me and I will forward you details.

Taxable

We've been living and working in China since 2004, when we started to do business here in earnest...

We've had lots of quality issues... but most of them would never have come up in any quality check before the container doors were closed... In a way, that's life... business risk.

Over time, we have come to know exactly the issues that we should be looking out for... Right now, if we had a container arrive in Dublin with 100% defects, we would have to look at the overall picture... It's unfortunate to have the defects, but it may (for example) only represent 5% of the the entire business that we've done with that particular supplier. When we were starting, it would have been a disaster - had it been the first / second / third container, it would have represented 100% / 50% / 33% of our business with that supplier, which would have meant failure.

We don't use any middlemen at all - for any of our business (except for handling agents who deal with customs in Dublin - which we hate - we should be able to do it ourselves!) - it's a matter of principle at this stage. We have all learnt to speak Chinese (the hard way - 2.5 years in classes before and after work)... We do periodic quality inspections - but not for all shipments.

We would never do it by remote control. When we are sourcing a new product, we are really vigorous - we move from a long list of suppliers to a short list, and then open negotiations with the top 5... which then moves into a top 3 before we eventually settle on 1 with at least 1 as a reserve should the quality turn out to be bad. It takes a lot of research work + dinners + sitting in bad chain hotels in xth-tier cities etc... Not fun.

Once we have the relationship, we are typically happy to run with it for a while... We need to be clear how much we can sell in the worst case, so that they understand us a bit... In that respect, Ireland is a very small market. As always, understanding your end customer is the absolute key.

We'd love to say we were rolling in it... but we would have been better off being average property developers!! (...bread and butter stuff... the jam has to come from market surveys / operational / financial consulting...)

34 degrees here in Guangdong... but still much better than Beijing...

Taxable

About these AliBaba / Global Sources / Made in China sites... I have a Danish friend who is developing LED controllers... He has his own little company in Copenhagen. From January to March he was working with his supplier in Shanghai.

It used to crack him up, because there was one "factory floor" so to speak... where lots of workers where fiddling with light emitting diodes... but there were about 3 - 4 receptions...

So, when Customer X arrived, to see "ABC LED Co. Ltd.", he would be directed to the reception on the 6th floor where there was a receptionist sitting behind a desk and the place was all marked "ABC LED Co. Ltd.". Customer X would have a meeting and a tour of the offices and workshop (where there were no logos).

Customer Y arrives to see he would be sent to the reception on the 3rd floor, where the reception was marked "XYZ LED Co. Ltd.". Yadda yadda...

They had about 4 aliases.

It's very very common... particularly with AliBaba / Global Sources / Made in China... It takes a lot of sifting... particularly when you start to figure out the cross-shareholdings etc... You need a lot of patience.

Tip number 1: look at the addresses carefully!