Should I warn my colleagues or am I overreacting?

mise23

A work colleague approached me a few weeks ago and invited me to what he initially said was a social gathering to raise money for a reputable charity.
He explained he had done some kind of self improvement course and that as part of it had to organise an event like this one.

It may just be me but every time I hear the words 'self improvement course' I think it must be some kind of scam.

I looked up this particular group on the Internet: some people think they're a cult but the general consensus is that they seem more interested in gouging money out of people.
I was still willing to give this colleague the benefit of the doubt (but was going to leave my wallet at home).

However he approached me today to confirm I was attending. It's now looking like the gathering is in fact a hard sell to try to get people signed up for this 'self improvement course'. I was too shocked to say anything, I'll email him next week and make up some excuse not to attend. Don't really want to confront him directly as I do have to work with him.

Anyway my moral dilemma is do I have a duty to warn my other colleagues? They are all fully capable of making their own decisions and should have access to the same information that I do. I know some of the other people he has invited and they don't seem to be what I'd describe as vulnerable or gullible.
Am I completely overreacting to this situation?

Tristram

mise23 wrote: »

They are all fully capable of making their own decisions...

Answer is right there. You should definitely go. Bring your wallet!

Peggypeg

This is a tricky one. If I were you I'd just stay away and give your colleagues the chance to walk away themselves. If you tell them your opinion it could get very uncomfortable with the other guy and also they may not agree with you at all, they may see it as great? If it were me I'd stay out of it unless I thought he was clearly taking advantage of someone who didn't realise it.

Taltos

Almost sounds like a pyramid scheme but under another guise.

Depends how strongly you feel.
Personally I would just tell him thanks but no thanks. If he became insistent then I would probably suggest that this is a wonderful idea - lets go to HR or your manager to discuss getting the whole company involved...

If it comes up in conversation then by all means let the others know what you think - but otherwise you risk being a gossip - careful there...

mise23

Thanks to the last couple of posts, that's what I was thinking of doing. Just make up an excuse not to attend and let people find out for themselves.
Definitely does sound like a pyramid scheme.
Also everyone at work is aware this guy is into get rich quick schemes, though to my knowledge he hasn't tried getting people at work involved before.
He was very direct when he spoke with me that he was going to ask people to sign up with this group 'don't forget your credit card' so I assume he must have said the same thing to the others he invited. The only difference is that I thought it must be dodgy when he first mentioned it a few weeks ago.

Also the charity he mentioned and this 'self improvement group' are completely different organisations so there should be no confusion between the two.

Massive Muscles

Is this Tony Quinn's operation?

iamskippy

Landmark?

mise23

Didn't want to be too specific but yes it's Landmark. what do you know about them and am I right to be worried?

seamus

I wouldn't go around talking to everyone and becoming "anti" it, but maybe talk to the one or two colleagues closest to you about it and why you're not going, and the word will probably spread.

iamskippy

mise23 wrote: »

Didn't want to be too specific but yes it's Landmark. what do you know about them and am I right to be worried?

http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

I honestly do not if you should be worried. All I can say is I would not give them any of my money. I don't think I have heard them called a charity before though? Could be wrong did not read link now

mise23

What really annoys me is that it's so bleedin obvious it's a scam.
The blindest blindman in blindshire wouldn't be fooled.
(Apologies but I was watching Blackadder earlier on tonight)

I'm really going to stir up a hornet's nest if I say it out loud though.

He never said they were a charity, he just initially said he was raising money for charity as part of his Landmark course. What he told me today was completely different as I've posted above.
I'm also really annoyed he used the name of this charity as it does really good work and wouldn't want it's good name taken in vain.

iamskippy

mise23 wrote: »

He never said they were a charity, he just initially said he was raising money for charity as part of his Landmark course. What he told me today was completely different as I've posted above.
I'm also really annoyed he used the name of this charity as it does really good work and wouldn't want it's good name taken in vain.

sorry picked you up wrong. I don't think you would have much success with warning some people anyway no matter what you say they will have been programmed with an answer. It is a sort of 'update' of EST by Werner Erhard

mise23

I do recall making some negative comment about Sci.....ogy within this guys earshot one time and this seemed to have hit a nerve.
It's clearer now why he reacted, as there do seem to be similarities.

The Corinthian

Firstly I'll have to say I know nothing about the organization in question and am really responding to something that has been described as similar in it's recruitment/marketing tactics as MLM companies or even cults. So I can only speak for my knowledge of those, not the subject of this thread.

You can turn up with your wallet and a big fat wad of cash and leave without spending a penny because ultimately, unless they mug you, you have to actually agree to part with your money.

Ultimately, just because they are selling something using MLM or similar does not make it a scam. More likely it makes it very bad value for money, largely because to fund the layered commission structure, items have to be grossly over priced. People don't 'hard sell' for free, after all.

Be aware that they will pressurize you into signing on the dotted line. Devices such as 'love bombing' and other social pressures are common. Another common tactic is the 'one time offer' where you have to decide there and then if you are going to avail of an 'opportunity' or lose it forever. Any contract will naturally tie you into spending considerably more than your initial sale - money which you will be told you'll 'make back' (generally through your 'network').

They may even cart in some 'expert' at the meeting for credibility - I remember (many moons ago) one such company carted in the economic something-or-other from the US embassy (you should have seen his reaction when I asked him for his card).

I'd go because it's an education in how a hard sell works and outside of someone literally putting a gun to your head, this is as hard as it gets. If you can survive this, and learn from it, you will know it when it comes knocking on your door again in the future.

Given this, if you think you don't have the willpower to say no then don't go.

mise23

I can definitely resist, my mantra is 'never buy a pig in a poke'.
I did resist buying property in Ireland when everyone told me I was a fool not to. I had more than enough money for a deposit at the time as well.

It'll be a waste of an evening for me and I'll find it extremely difficult keeping a straight face when they start spouting psychobabble and the inevitable BS about 'unlocking your true potential'.
I'll also find it difficult not pointing out the obvious flaws in the whole scheme.

I tend to be a prophet in the wilderness though as no one ever listens to me.
'Don't buy property..The end is nigh' didn't prevent a single person I know from buying when property was at it's peak.

Sorry for going off topic and my obvious 'schadenfreude'.;)

P.S. I'm joking about the 'schadenfreude' bit, just wanted to show off that I knew what it meant and how to spell it without checking.

faith3

i'd be extremely cautious of landmark, it is a development from est, which did indeed use adaptations of scientology techniques. at the core of the est training was getting a group of participants, lock them in a room with a trainer for a very long time while they were basically verbally abused and bullied to break down their personality. a french documentary in 2004 using undercover cameras showed that landmark was still doing that, it was pretty nasty stuff. of course landmark tried to legally prevent them from showing the footage for "copyright reasons", when that failed they shut their france headquarters and relocated to london. they vehemently deny the charge of being a cult, as is expected, but i would recommend staying well clear.

bangersandmash

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'd go because it's an education in how a hard sell works and outside of someone literally putting a gun to your head, this is as hard as it gets. If you can survive this, and learn from it, you will know it when it comes knocking on your door again in the future.

Given this, if you think you don't have the willpower to say no then don't go.

That's an unusual way of looking at things. He has already identified the dubious nature of the organisation. Going along now to test his willpower sounds like a pointless exercise in machismo.

On the other hand, by attending he would effectively lending credence to the scheme. At the very least it might serve to legitimise the scheme in the eyes colleagues who may not have the willpower to say no.

OP I'd turn down the offer, but avoid making a workplace issue of it. However if he persists or repeatedly tries to use your workplace to further his scheme, you might want to discuss his behaviour with HR.

iamskippy

faith3 wrote: »

i'd be extremely cautious of landmark, it is a development from est, which did indeed use adaptations of scientology techniques. at the core of the est training was getting a group of participants, lock them in a room with a trainer for a very long time while they were basically verbally abused and bullied to break down their personality. a french documentary in 2004 using undercover cameras showed that landmark was still doing that, it was pretty nasty stuff. of course landmark tried to legally prevent them from showing the footage for "copyright reasons", when that failed they shut their france headquarters and relocated to london. they vehemently deny the charge of being a cult, as is expected, but i would recommend staying well clear.

That is it basically they break you down and build you into what they want. I would be very wary of lanmdmark but as someone else posted to go along one may learn something if one could resist being involved

Pyridine

Why don't you ask him what charity he is raising money for. If he says it's actually for this Landmark crowd just say that you're not interested. You could make an off the cuff remark about pyrimid schemes with a smile or something! You can do this at lunch in front of people which might indicate to them that there's something amiss without saying it directly.

Them being adults can make their own decisions from then on. That way you're not the gossip or the nay sayer, just not interested!

The Corinthian

bangersandmash wrote: »

That's an unusual way of looking at things. He has already identified the dubious nature of the organisation. Going along now to test his willpower sounds like a pointless exercise in machismo.

My view is to treat such a situation as educational. He's going to have people try to scam and hard sell to him in the future and when they do he won't have been forewarned as he has this time, but at least he'll more likely recognise the tactics when it does happen having witnessed them there. That has been my experience.

On the other hand, by attending he would effectively lending credence to the scheme. At the very least it might serve to legitimise the scheme in the eyes colleagues who may not have the willpower to say no.

I don't really think he would be lending any credence to it by simply being there - indeed, if he does turn up and is seen not to buy into it he would effectively be doing the opposite. Either way, I really don't think it makes much of a difference.

OP I'd turn down the offer, but avoid making a workplace issue of it. However if he persists or repeatedly tries to use your workplace to further his scheme, you might want to discuss his behaviour with HR.

Were I in his shoes I'd probably look first at the negatives on three levels, in order of weighting, of personal safety, collateral damage and hassle (could he actually be arsed), against any perceived benefits before deciding.

By collateral damage, I mean even if he goes and nothing comes of it, would his relationship with his colleague be worse off than if he had simply not gone? It may be wiser not to go on that basis as rejection after having gone to the meeting may be perceived as worse as rejection of attending it in the first place.

mise23

I have no problem spotting a dubious proposition a mile off.
It could be educational for me if I attend but I do think it's less complicated extricating myself from the situation if I just don't go.

I know one person who is attending is normally very astute, but is a friend of the guy organising it. My impression, which could be completely wrong, is that she has to be smart enough to realise it's a con but is going along anyway just to humour him.

I'm probably rationalising here and trying to make excuses not to tell people. However all my work colleagues are extremely intelligent people and must be going just to humour him too.

Although the guy who's organising the event has an MBA and still can't see a pyramid scheme staring him in the face.
I actually feel sorry for him as he doesn't seem to have a clue. I was trying to hint to him yesterday that I had my reservations about the whole thing, however for some reason he thought instead that I wanted to invite more people along!!!