Wheels for Tri - 2010 HED Jet 90/60 or 2008 Zipp 808's

Spins

My new bike arrived in shop today, groupset and bars arriving next week.
Just have to decide on wheels now.
Had decided on new HED Jet 90/60 set up but someone threw a spanner in the works today and offered a competitive price on a 2008 Zipp 808 clincher wheelset (new - unused). They'd only work out marginally more expensive than the HEDs when you take delivery cost etc. for the HEDs in to account.
I hadn't done a hell of a lot of looking in to Zipps as i thought they were out of my budget. Only had them offered to me today and need to make a decision on them asap.
From what I've read online today, there was significant enough changes between the 2008 and 2009 808 models (more toroidal.....!?). Apparnetly the newest HEDs are getting great reviews also.
Your thoughts please.
Oh yeah, I was offered the 808's for €1,350. This is a goos deal, isn't it?
Thanks.

biker_joe

I would defo take the zipps, no question about it ! thats a great price too !

Biker Joe

Lumen

How about a front 808 and rear disc (Planet-X?).

Spins

Lumen wrote: »

How about a front 808 and rear disc (Planet-X?).

Offer only comes as a wheelset. What do you think?

blorg

I suspect there are conditions the disc may not be usable or the best choice- you see loads of pro-level triathletes without them and they are never used over the longer distances.

Even an 808 may be too much for some races.

I am interested in this topic in general though!

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

I suspect there are conditions the disc may not be usable or the best choice- you see loads of pro-level triathletes without them and they are never used over the longer distances.

Even an 808 may be too much for some races.

I am interested in this topic in general though!

Based on my own research...

A disc is at it's best (performance-wise) in a crosswind. These are conditions when you're least likely to want to use it, but it shouldn't cause steering problems if it's on the back.

The benefits of a disc in a headwind (or no wind) are marginal compared to a deep section rim.

More significantly, if it's windy you're probably not going to want to use a front 808 at all.

So I think:

Very windy: training wheels.
Windy: 404 front, rear disc.
Not windy: 808 or 1080 front, rear disc.

Discs are heavier and crap in corners, but that probably doesn't matter in a TT/Tri.

I have also read that Zipp can be harder to handle in a cross-wind (although give better performance) compared to (say) Planet-X equivalents, which are also much cheaper.

I reckon you could get a Planet-X disc, 50mm and 82mm fronts for less than that pair of 808s.

Obviously there is also the tubular/clincher issue, and the Zipp Powertap Disc option (although a crank powermeter + PX wheels works out cheaper than that).

Happy to be corrected by anyone with experience of something other than Google.

Spins

That's all very interesting, really, but my problem is I have to decide on this within the next few days or the 808's will go elsewhere.
As they would be my only set of tri race wheels, should I go for them or would the HED Jet 90/60 combo offer greater versatility to an only average age group triathlete, although the bike is my strongest discipline.

1. Does it matter that the 808's are 2008 model?
2. Is a front and rear 808 set up practical for an average rider who will race mostly in Ireland.
3. Does anyone have an experience based opinion on HEDs
3. Would i be better off with a HED Jet 90 Rear/60 Front set up.
5. Zipps or HEDs?

I appreciate other suggestions but I've already decided I don't want tubulars as my first set of race wheels so no point suggesting, thanks.

Spins

blorg

@Spins- worth PMing Tunney or waiting until he comes along.

Tunney, who we all worship around here, reckoned a year ago that over a 404 on front was not a great idea, don't know if he still holds that. Also bear in mind that he reckons coaching and a power meter should come ahead of aero wheels, he would not be the first person to say that either.

I got a set of 404s recently but that was mainly for road racing, perhaps simply adding a cheapish disc rear to that and I would have quite a versatile setup to include TTs. Wheelworx have 404 clinchers for €1,299 so cheaper than your offer on the 808s.

Also I must say I know nothing and have no experience whatsoever so bear that in mind.

Lumen

Spins wrote: »

I appreciate other suggestions but I've already decided I don't want tubulars as my first set of race wheels so no point suggesting, thanks.

Ah, clinchers. Sorry, missed that. And I completely ignored the weight issue.

quintana2

blorg wrote: »

I suspect there are conditions the disc may not be usable or the best choice- you see loads of pro-level triathletes without them and they are never used over the longer distances.

Even an 808 may be too much for some races.

I am interested in this topic in general though!

Hi blorg, you will probably find given the choice pro triathletes will always choose a disc ,unless there is extreme wind at which point they would not use any deep section wheel. you see loads of pros without discs but usually this is only in draft legal races or in kona where they are banned.

blorg

quintana2 wrote: »

Hi blorg, you will probably find given the choice pro triathletes will always choose a disc ,unless there is extreme wind at which point they would not use any deep section wheel. you see loads of pros without discs but usually this is only in draft legal races or in kona where they are banned.

That would explain it, I was looking at pictures of the top finishers in Kona. A lot with relatively shallow rims though. If it is the only set of wheels he is going to have, what do you think? Would an 808 be too much up front?

@Lumen- good to see that thread finished with a good consensus on the PX disc

Spins

blorg wrote: »

@Spins- worth PMing Tunney or waiting until he comes along.

Thanks, will do that.
Still interested on other opinions tho.
Leaning towards the HEDs to be honest.

Lumen

Spins wrote: »

Leaning towards the HEDs to be honest.

What makes you think that HEDs are more robust than Zipps? Everyone knows someone with busted Zipps, but then Zipps are much more common.

I've read that HED Trispokes are tough, but also heavier and harsher riding than the Jets. They're also make a cool noise, apparently.

edit: I should really STFU since I have no idea what I'm talking about, but since TT wheels are on my wishlist I'm interested in the thought process

tunney

Spins wrote: »

My new bike arrived in shop today, groupset and bars arriving next week.
Just have to decide on wheels now.
Had decided on new HED Jet 90/60 set up but someone threw a spanner in the works today and offered a competitive price on a 2008 Zipp 808 clincher wheelset (new - unused). They'd only work out marginally more expensive than the HEDs when you take delivery cost etc. for the HEDs in to account.
I hadn't done a hell of a lot of looking in to Zipps as i thought they were out of my budget. Only had them offered to me today and need to make a decision on them asap.
From what I've read online today, there was significant enough changes between the 2008 and 2009 808 models (more toroidal.....!?). Apparnetly the newest HEDs are getting great reviews also.
Your thoughts please.
Oh yeah, I was offered the 808's for €1,350. This is a goos deal, isn't it?
Thanks.

I have Zip 808s, 404s and a 900 Disc.

I'd go HEDs. The zipps are nice but the new Heds are faster.

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

Based on my own research...

A disc is at it's best (performance-wise) in a crosswind. These are conditions when you're least likely to want to use it, but it shouldn't cause steering problems if it's on the back.

The benefits of a disc in a headwind (or no wind) are marginal compared to a deep section rim.

The HED zipp has a good calculator for yaw and performance, not sure it agrees with you

Lumen wrote: »

More significantly, if it's windy you're probably not going to want to use a front 808 at all.

Agree completely, rider weight has to be considered as well, a big 90kg bloke versus a 55kg girl.

Lumen wrote: »

Very windy: training wheels.
Windy: 404 front, rear disc.
Not windy: 808 or 1080 front, rear disc.

Very windy: 404 F/R
Windy: 404 F, 808 R
Not windy: 808 or 1080 front, rear disc.

Crank the tri distance up to IM and bin the disc.

Lumen wrote: »

Discs are heavier and crap in corners, but that probably doesn't matter in a TT/Tri.

True, but they are also stiff and are used in hill climb races by some for this reason. My Zipp Disc which is an old one is as light as main deep section offerings.

Lumen wrote: »

I have also read that Zipp can be harder to handle in a cross-wind (although give better performance) compared to (say) Planet-X equivalents, which are also much cheaper.

Just because a wheel is as deep does not mean it is as aero. Rim shape is everything.

Lumen wrote: »

I reckon you could get a Planet-X disc, 50mm and 82mm fronts for less than that pair of 808s.

But there is no comparision really in performance

Lumen wrote: »

Obviously there is also the tubular/clincher issue, and the Zipp Powertap Disc option (although a crank powermeter + PX wheels works out cheaper than that).

I'd go cranks for power alright

Lumen wrote: »

Happy to be corrected by anyone with experience of something other than Google.

Not correcint just offering an alternative opinion

tunney

blorg wrote: »

@Spins- worth PMing Tunney or waiting until he comes along.

Tunney, who we all worship around here, reckoned a year ago that over a 404 on front was not a great idea, don't know if he still holds that. Also bear in mind that he reckons coaching and a power meter should come ahead of aero wheels, he would not be the first person to say that either.

I got a set of 404s recently but that was mainly for road racing, perhaps simply adding a cheapish disc rear to that and I would have quite a versatile setup to include TTs. Wheelworx have 404 clinchers for €1,299 so cheaper than your offer on the 808s.

Also I must say I know nothing and have no experience whatsoever so bear that in mind.

LOL , I just wet myself

I'd ride a 404 front (and do), I prefer to have an 808 as wheel for up front but I'm not allowed buy anymore wheels

IF I had to have one wheelset I'd look at 606s or 60/90s.
The HEDs with the C2 are lovely
http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/jet6.asp
http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/jet9.asp

Wider rims are seemingly the wave of the future, but Zipps 2009 more toridial rim is sweet too.

I ride Zipps and I like them. I only race on them and do race specific training on them but have hub issues as the bearings are not robust. This I believe has been changed for 2010 (and maybe 2009). For this reason if the wheel is to be a all rounder wheel for racing and training its a no brainer - Heds over 2008 Zipps, plus an 808 up front (rider weight, strength and experience depending) might be too deep. My Zip 404 front was riden in Kona by an uber biker as he felt his 808 would be too deep and he'd have trouble in hole-in-the-hedge moments.

I would put coaching and a PM before wheels. However for impact on the 2010 season the coaching and PM would want to be bought now.

I like wheels and i don't think you can ever have too much.

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

What makes you think that HEDs are more robust than Zipps? Everyone knows someone with busted Zipps, but then Zipps are much more common.

I've read that HED Trispokes are tough, but also heavier and harsher riding than the Jets. They're also make a cool noise, apparently.

edit: I should really STFU since I have no idea what I'm talking about, but since TT wheels are on my wishlist I'm interested in the thought process

Deep section H3s Once only for lance now we too can have them
http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/H3d_tubular.asp

Which reminds me - if you fronts are close together you want conventionally spoked wheels (i.e. jets or zipps) if they are wide apart (old cervelo forks) then you want tri spokes.

Trimad

Hi

I'm new to the boards but as I have recently purchased HED Jet wheels 60 front & 90 back thought I'd give my tuppence worth.

I also had the zipp 808's on offer for €1300 and the HED's were €1250 but with web research and the help of the shop assistant I chose the HED's.

I have to admit astetics played a big part but also the durability factor with the HED's. They are also used by Christie Wellington 3 time world Tri champ and Lance Armstrong has also used them and if they're good enough for lance they're good enough for me!!:D

They are now sitting proudly on a new Kuota Kalibur Tri bike complete with ultegra groupset and Vision handlebar set up.

Once I get a couple training spins under my belt I'll update the blog.

Also a quick mention to Liam in Spokes bike store in Waterford who was superb in helping me with advise on groupsets, bike set up, bike build etc and who also matched his prices to anything I had found on the web.
Well worth a call or visit for those of you less knowlegable like myself.