Any Plumbers do estimations without €100 cost

Acoustic

sick of these yahoo's comming out to try solve a heating problem and then have the nerve to charge a fee without doing anything

if anybody knows a plumbing & heating expert in dublin who doesnt charge for a estimate call out please pm me his number

Joey the lips

It would be a good idea to describe the problem with best detail.But typical trouble that calls for a charge

For example would be, my heating is not working. The plumber comes out the boiler needs re pressurising. This is not a problem that can be explained but fixed and charged for

Pete67

To be fair to plumbers and other tradesmen, time is money. If you call someone out to solve a heating problem, it may take more time to find out what the issue is than to repair it. So a reasonable fee for investigating is justified. You are paying for the expertise as well as the physical work.

Acoustic

i want somebody to come and have a look at the problem , diagnose whats wrong and give me an estimate , then i have the choice as to get it done or second opinion , and only charge me if i decide for him to do the work

i mean theres a recession and if somebody wants the work that bad , they'd at least give a free quote

now my problem is : i have an ideal classic boiler , the house is 10 years old , now it fires up but doesnt give adequate heat , ie the dial on the boiler goes from 1-6 and no matter what number i put it on it doesnt get hotter , also i hate a temperature gauge on my wall in the living room that goes up to 35c , now im no expert but im sure that if u set it to 20c ur heating should knock off once the heat gets to 20 and when it drops under it kicks in again to bring it back up , mine doesnt do that , just stays constant

ive bled the rads etc but their never that hot and the house is freezing so im not sure what the problem is and would like a professional opinion off an honest fellow and not a sham just after a quick buck ie €100 for 10 mins without fixing the problem or knowing the cause

GigaByte

Pete67 wrote: »

To be fair to plumbers and other tradesmen, time is money. If you call someone out to solve a heating problem, it may take more time to find out what the issue is than to repair it. So a reasonable fee for investigating is justified. You are paying for the expertise as well as the physical work.

I don't think 100 euros to call a local plumber out for an estimate is called reasonable.

Bull76

GigaByte wrote: »

I don't think 100 euros to call a local plumber out for an estimate is called reasonable.

The op hasn't said how he has addressed the call to the plumbers. If he wants a quote then he needs to know whats wrong so a cost can be put together.
From what I understand the op wants some one to diagnose the fault and then quote to fix it, then get a quote from some one else giving the diagnose's from the other plumber.
Don't think or would I expect some one to give you any information like that.
Best thing to do is get a good plumber and let him/Her rectify your issue/s. Just my 6 cents.

Bull76

Acoustic wrote: »

i want somebody to come and have a look at the problem , diagnose whats wrong and give me an estimate , then i have the choice as to get it done or second opinion , and only charge me if i decide for him to do the work

i mean theres a recession and if somebody wants the work that bad , they'd at least give a free quote

now my problem is : i have an ideal classic boiler , the house is 10 years old , now it fires up but doesnt give adequate heat , ie the dial on the boiler goes from 1-6 and no matter what number i put it on it doesnt get hotter , also i hate a temperature gauge on my wall in the living room that goes up to 35c , now im no expert but im sure that if u set it to 20c ur heating should knock off once the heat gets to 20 and when it drops under it kicks in again to bring it back up , mine doesnt do that , just stays constant

ive bled the rads etc but their never that hot and the house is freezing so im not sure what the problem is and would like a professional opinion off an honest fellow and not a sham just after a quick buck ie €100 for 10 mins without fixing the problem or knowing the cause

Sounds to me that you have a few issues with your system. Is it serviced regularly? Also, what is the insulation like in your house? Have you clarified what the temp in the room where the Thermostat is? whats the range on your thermostat, seems a bit high if the upper limit is 35c.

As for looking for a quote, the plumber needs to know whats wrong that involves spending time investigating. That cost's, can't expect a tradesman to spend a few hours investigating your system and then not paying him or offering him the job to fix it.
I'm not a tradesman, but you need to be real about what your after.

Acoustic

Bull76 wrote: »

Sounds to me that you have a few issues with your system. Is it serviced regularly? Also, what is the insulation like in your house? Have you clarified what the temp in the room where the Thermostat is? whats the range on your thermostat, seems a bit high if the upper limit is 35c.

As for looking for a quote, the plumber needs to know whats wrong that involves spending time investigating. That cost's, can't expect a tradesman to spend a few hours investigating your system and then not paying him or offering him the job to fix it.
I'm not a tradesman, but you need to be real about what your after.

sounds like your trying to justify them charging the earth , maybe a plumber yourself

if he said it will cost you ? and thats it and i will gaurantee it is fixed , then id gladly hand the money over

if he spends 5 mins literally and doesnt do anything and actually hasnt a clue ie it could be this or it could be that etc why should i pay him for 5 mins and also not knowing or even wanting to know whats wrong with it

too many yahoo's unfortunately

Joey the lips

If i were a plumber I would stay away from this job as well and that just based on what I am reading...;)


If i go to a doctor and ask him why I have a cold if he give me a diagnoses I pay him. If he gives me a perscription i pay the chemist.

If you want a plumber to run a diagnostic that will prob take half a day you will need to consider that the plumber must be paid. That is why most plumbers dont investigate they just usually say you need a new X. Because they know you will not pay them. I have often asked a roofer plumber bricky to do jobs for me and I always call them and ask them for the best advice.

When I quoted I was often asked if there is a charge for quotations. The reason being is that it took me a long time to quote.

If you ask for a dry rot survey you will be charged for the survey. Not the result.

I can go on but i get the feeling I have made my point to the dismay of the op. Sorry for that.

PLIIM

Pete67 wrote: »

To be fair to plumbers and other tradesmen, time is money. If you call someone out to solve a heating problem, it may take more time to find out what the issue is than to repair it. So a reasonable fee for investigating is justified. You are paying for the expertise as well as the physical work.

Except that ive had some out who you are paying them to find out they actually have no expertise.

Joey the lips

PLIIM wrote: »

Except that ive had some out who you are paying them to find out they actually have no expertise.

Nobody can legislate for a muppet and a reckless and dangerous muppet to boot.

For gas I always use the RGII for plumbers I use my contacts.

NinjaTruncs

Bring your plumbing to him and you may get a free estimate, asking someone to call to you and take up his time will cost you money.

He could easily use up a hour of travel time and another hour looking at your system, that's a quarter of a day, I don't think you would go do a 1/4 of a days work for free at someones house would you?

Acoustic

PLIIM wrote: »

Except that ive had some out who you are paying them to find out they actually have no expertise.

finally

well said

thats what i mean , they come in tap on something and say i think u need a new boiler when for all i know u dont or charge the earth

Acoustic

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Bring your plumbing to him and you may get a free estimate, asking someone to call to you and take up his time will cost you money.

He could easily use up a hour of travel time and another hour looking at your system, that's a quarter of a day, I don't think you would go do a 1/4 of a days work for free at someones house would you?

no i wouldnt

but i wouldnt pay for 5 mins at €100

if he spent 2 hours id gladly pay

Joey the lips

Acoustic wrote: »

no i wouldnt

but i wouldnt pay for 5 mins at €100

if he spent 2 hours id gladly pay

With due respect your not telling the full story. It would take the plumber 5 - 10 min to look at your plumbing which he would have done and checked the obvious. For example the wireing the stat etc,

It really is a diagnoses you want. What you can do is tell a plumber that if they figure out the problem and its reasonable you will pay them a bonus for fixing it quickly. The bonus can be 20 euro. The plumber will work quickly and you will get a result.

I am of the opinion that if you phone 3 plumbers and they all say the same you are either very very unlucky or they are right.

If your unlucky I apologise.

yoshytoshy

We charge €65 an hour ,if your heating is fixed in the first hour thats that.
If its two hours its €130 ,thats how we usually work out prices. Obviously that doesnt include materials.

You cant expect someone to call out to a repair job and not get paid.
If you want a quote for a new boiler ,radiator or cylinder ,then that is completely different and most people dont charge for that ,we don't.

Acoustic

yoshytoshy wrote: »

We charge €65 an hour ,if your heating is fixed in the first hour thats that.
If its two hours its €130 ,thats how we usually work out prices. Obviously that doesnt include materials.

You cant expect someone to call out to a repair job and not get paid.
If you want a quote for a new boiler ,radiator or cylinder ,then that is completely different and most people dont charge for that ,we don't.

thats fine , thats what i mean , a plumber should be able to know in a few mins whats needed , and quote for that

not just turn up and expect easy 100 for doing sweet fa in 5 mins

happened twice to me , when all i wanted was a quick look at it and give me an estimate , asked was there a call out charge and told no , bit diff story when they hear

they should only charge for work done and not estimate

Davy

Acoustic wrote: »

they should only charge for work done and not estimate

As already pointed out, thats for new work.

You have a fault. The work being done, is identifying the problem. Its their knowledge that identifies it, if it was easy you would do it yourself.

ronkmonster

It's the plumbers expertise that would enable him to know what the problem is in 5 minutes. You're paying for their knowledge of how to diagnose and fix your plumbing, not how long it takes them to figure it out.

If it's an easy 5 minute job, why don't you look stuff up yourself?

Bull76

Acoustic wrote: »

sounds like your trying to justify them charging the earth , maybe a plumber yourself

if he said it will cost you ? and thats it and i will gaurantee it is fixed , then id gladly hand the money over

if he spends 5 mins literally and doesnt do anything and actually hasnt a clue ie it could be this or it could be that etc why should i pay him for 5 mins and also not knowing or even wanting to know whats wrong with it

too many yahoo's unfortunately

As I already stated, I'm not a tradesman. But have experience in fault finding and fixing issues. I'm practical and very technical minded.
But what your looking for is not acceptable. What you need is an experienced plumber, no plumber tradesman will give you a quote to fault find anything. How can they.

NinjaTruncs

Acoustic wrote: »

thats fine , thats what i mean , a plumber should be able to know in a few mins whats needed , and quote for that

not just turn up and expect easy 100 for doing sweet fa in 5 mins

happened twice to me , when all i wanted was a quick look at it and give me an estimate , asked was there a call out charge and told no , bit diff story when they hear

they should only charge for work done and not estimate

I'm not a tradesman, but i doubt many will want to put in an esitmate for free on a 5 minute job, i would say most wouldn't do a free estimate on anything under a day as it wouldn't be worth it.

You keep saying it will only take 5 minutes and should only pay for the time it takes, but if a trades man had 5 jobs in one day and each only took 5 minutes it wouldn't leave him with much pay if he only got paid for 5 minutes form each, you also have to pay for his expertise and time spent travelling.

Outkast_IRE

There are a few excellent plumbers on boards from all areas and every one of them are goin to read this and go im not touching off this job!!!:D

Micky Dolenz

Wow, thats mad.

This is how it usually works, you call service person, they come, find problem, fix problem, then charge. Not find your problem and go happily on there way to find the next one with only a thank you for their time.

Recession or not, only a fool will work for nothing.

Acoustic

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I'm not a tradesman, but i doubt many will want to put in an esitmate for free on a 5 minute job, i would say most wouldn't do a free estimate on anything under a day as it wouldn't be worth it.

You keep saying it will only take 5 minutes and should only pay for the time it takes, but if a trades man had 5 jobs in one day and each only took 5 minutes it wouldn't leave him with much pay if he only got paid for 5 minutes form each, you also have to pay for his expertise and time spent travelling.

i know a plumber and a sham guy at that

and he said to me before , he'd gladly go all day everyday estimating jobs and live on that money , and in some cases do sweet fa work , as he could do 5 or 6 estimates a day at €100 a pop , is that right ??????? NO

people are miss reading what i mean

i dont have a problem paying for a service ok

what i have a problem with is plumbers who havnt a bulls notion what there doing , saying it could be a number of things , i just want somebody to come in and spend 30 mins looking at it and giving me a straight answer as to what the problem is , give me an estimate and id let him do it

just hate the it could be a number of things etc , i mean come on if your 20 odd years in the game surely you'd know 30 mins later whats wrong

but dont have the neck to charge me when you havnt a clue yourself and your the expert , im not paying for that

Acoustic

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

There are a few excellent plumbers on boards from all areas and every one of them are goin to read this and go im not touching off this job!!!:D

couldnt give 2 fooks to be honest , plenty more around

people are screaming they can't get work etc

Acoustic

Acoustic wrote: »

couldnt give 2 fooks to be honest , plenty more around

people are screaming they can't get work etc

And your posting here because?

Acoustic

gary71 wrote: »

And your posting here because?

because theres too many con artists in the trade

Pete67

You are in control of who you let into your house to look at your heating. Do some research, get personal recommendations, use registered, insured contractors with a reputation to defend. As a wise old foreman said to me once, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!

Alun

Acoustic wrote: »

because theres too many con artists in the trade

Possibly, but it's not confined to plumbers. I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm willing to bet that there are a good few con artists there too.

If you're going into each and every discussion with tradesmen of any ilk with the preconceived notion that they're going to con you and rip you off, and give off that attitude, consciously or otherwise, in your dealings with them, you'll never get anything done.

Maybe if you'd approached this forum with a friendly question as to what might be wrong with your system, and also tried to educate yourself as to some of the basic workings of a central heating boiler and associated heating system, you might have got some answers which either could have resulted in you being able to effect a simple fix yourself, or at least be able to tell when a potential plumber was bull****ting you.

Some of the people on here are heating engineers themselves, who might just have offered to help you out, but since you appear to have adopted such a combative attitude to the whole trade from the start, I seriously doubt that will happen.

BTW, I'm not a plumber myself before you ask.

ronkmonster

Acoustic wrote: »

i know a plumber and a sham guy at that

and he said to me before , he'd gladly go all day everyday estimating jobs and live on that money , and in some cases do sweet fa work , as he could do 5 or 6 estimates a day at €100 a pop , is that right ??????? NO

people are miss reading what i mean

i dont have a problem paying for a service ok

what i have a problem with is plumbers who havnt a bulls notion what there doing , saying it could be a number of things , i just want somebody to come in and spend 30 mins looking at it and giving me a straight answer as to what the problem is , give me an estimate and id let him do it

just hate the it could be a number of things etc , i mean come on if your 20 odd years in the game surely you'd know 30 mins later whats wrong

but dont have the neck to charge me when you havnt a clue yourself and your the expert , im not paying for that

What you are calling a quote isn't a quote though. It's the diagnostic portion of the job. Which can take 5 mins if he did a similar job recently or 30 mins if he has to investigate everything. Why should him diagnosing your problem be free. It could be more work diagnosing the problem than actually fixing it. Yes they give you a quote to do the repair work part and parts but if you decide you can live with the problem then you just pay for the time he's spent finding out what's wrong.

Acoustic

Alun wrote: »

Possibly, but it's not confined to plumbers. I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm willing to bet that there are a good few con artists there too.

If you're going into each and every discussion with tradesmen of any ilk with the preconceived notion that they're going to con you and rip you off, and give off that attitude, consciously or otherwise, in your dealings with them, you'll never get anything done.

Maybe if you'd approached this forum with a friendly question as to what might be wrong with your system, and also tried to educate yourself as to some of the basic workings of a central heating boiler and associated heating system, you might have got some answers which either could have resulted in you being able to effect a simple fix yourself, or at least be able to tell when a potential plumber was bull****ting you.

Some of the people on here are heating engineers themselves, who might just have offered to help you out, but since you appear to have adopted such a combative attitude to the whole trade from the start, I seriously doubt that will happen.

BTW, I'm not a plumber myself before you ask.

ahh here stop will you , i know theres cowboys in every trade , i was recommended 2 plumbers by people i know , both came in and still didnt know what was wrong and left with the same idea , doesnt exactly fill you with great confidence does it ?

i'll explain my situation so and see if anybody has answers

i have an ( ideal classic F244 boiler ) that has a switch 1-6 on it , now my understanding is when u raise from 1-6 it should fire up the boiler more and be hotter , the 2 guys i had in , both took the casing off the boiler and could out their hands on the heat exchange because it wasnt that hot and when they switched the switch from 1 up to 6 the boiler did nothing , it was like it stayed at level 1 , now all the radiators get heat , just not enough , now the temperature gauge in the living room im not sure is working , when the temperature hits lets say 20c ( whatever u fix it at ) it should knock off the heating and knock it back on when the temperature dips below this ?? well mine doesnt do this

so a small recap , all radiators heat up luke warmish , no more than that , temperature gauge in living room isnt working , and the boiler isnt firing up past 1

Dotsie~tmp

Acoustic wrote: »

i know a plumber and a sham guy at that

and he said to me before , he'd gladly go all day everyday estimating jobs and live on that money , and in some cases do sweet fa work , as he could do 5 or 6 estimates a day at €100 a pop , is that right ??????? NO

people are miss reading what i mean

i dont have a problem paying for a service ok

what i have a problem with is plumbers who havnt a bulls notion what there doing , saying it could be a number of things , i just want somebody to come in and spend 30 mins looking at it and giving me a straight answer as to what the problem is , give me an estimate and id let him do it

just hate the it could be a number of things etc , i mean come on if your 20 odd years in the game surely you'd know 30 mins later whats wrong

but dont have the neck to charge me when you havnt a clue yourself and your the expert , im not paying for that

Im an electrical contractor. I dont have callout charges (99% of time unless i think they are a time waster) as i think it would hurt business (as though it could get any worse). I do however understand why some guys in trades focusing on small maintenance jobs do. If you were simply paid for time on jobs for small repairs you would end up working for minimum wage per hour when u add in travel time and pricing.

Whats not right however is charging someone when you have been unable to fix a fault thats been described or carry out no work that was agreeed (over phone usually). If you described the problem beforehand on the phone and they turn up and dont fix it you owe them nothing IMO.

Callout charges are designed to cover your time for getting to jobs and getting the gear thats needed when the actual job may be quite quick. Thats why you will often see at least an hours labour guaranteed under the callout. They are not an excuse to screw people. My advice to OP is get prior agreement on phone that payment is only there is problem is resolved then everyone knows where they stand.

PS i think you should contact you boiler manufacturer and ask for a recommended repair technician. Most plumbers just fit the stuff and dont have a clue how to fix it when a fault turns up. Thats always the measure of a good tradesman, how they handle faults.

Alun

Acoustic wrote: »

so a small recap , all radiators heat up luke warmish , no more than that , temperature gauge in living room isnt working , and the boiler isnt firing up past 1

Sounds to me (not a plumber!) then like the thermostat on the boiler itself isn't working.

The room thermostat (what you call a temperature gauge) has no direct influence on when the boiler fires up on most installations. What it does is to open or close a motorized valve that diverts the hot water produced by the boiler to either the heating circuit or the hot-water circuit. Indirectly though, when the hot water already circulating in the system loses sufficient heat in it's travels round the radiators, this will trigger the boiler to fire up to maintain that temperature. All the dial on the boiler does is to govern what temperature the boiler heats that water to, and also indirectly the temperature of your hot water.

Your room thermostat may well be banjaxed too, but it doesn't sound like it .. the temperature in the room just isn't getting high enough for it to actuate the motorized valve, which, indirectly again, will ultimately cause the boiler to shut off if running since the circulating hot water isn't losing heat anywhere.

What this means in terms of repair, I don't know .. maybe just the thermostat can be replaced/repaired, or it might be a fault on the electronics PCB.

That'll be €100 please

Outkast_IRE

Acoustic wrote: »

couldnt give 2 fooks to be honest , plenty more around

people are screaming they can't get work etc

well i do jobs like yours every week and without stepping foot in your house i could think of the 3 most likely reasons for your problems , 10 mins or so in your house and i would have it pinned down unless it was an obscure unusual problem .
Ya plenty of people out there screaming for work , so do a bit of research ask around , ask nicely on here and only choose someone with a good reputation . Any good plumber enjoys solving problems like yours , its your atitude thats killed off any chances of help !!

Joey the lips

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

, its your atitude thats killed off any chances of help !!

My feelings from the start tbh. Its easier to come on asking advice instead of giving out about the lack of advice.

Ranting and raveing is

---

>

having said that would be nice to see you sorted. It can be frustrating.

Juwwi

Acoustic wrote: »

thats fine , thats what i mean , a plumber should be able to know in a few mins whats needed , and quote for that

not just turn up and expect easy 100 for doing sweet fa in 5 mins

happened twice to me , mewhen all i wanted was a quick look at it and give an estimate , asked was there a call out [/B]charge and told no , bit diff story when they hear

they should only charge for work done and not estimate

Sounds to me like your a timewaster to be honest OP.
You expect people to pay for diesel in their vans,possible taking time off
work (where they are getting paid) to drive to you and diagnose
your problem for free.

Micky Dolenz

As already said, most if not all tradespeople won't charge for a quote. If I got a plumber around to price to put in a bathroom he wouldn't charge. you weren't looking for a quote, you were looking for fault finder.

If you had called out Bord Gais, they would have charged you for the fault finding and give you a quote for repair.

Acoustic

quick update

had a bloke over to look at it , didnt charge a call out , diagnosed the problem and quoted me there and then , he went off got a new thermostat , bled the radiators and balanced them , all done for €140 and the radiators are piping hot and its fixed

he'll be referred by me and used by me again if any trouble

i talked to him about charges and he said he never charges for a call out and only charges for work done or parts needed , now if i lived 2 hrs away he's charge and rightly so

ludermor

Acoustic wrote: »

quick update

had a bloke over to look at it , didnt charge a call out , diagnosed the problem and quoted me there and then , he went off got a new thermostat , bled the radiators and balanced them , all done for €140 and the radiators are piping hot and its fixed

he'll be referred by me and used by me again if any trouble

i talked to him about charges and he said he never charges for a call out and only charges for work done or parts needed , now if i lived 2 hrs away he's charge and rightly so

Never or sometimes? What about an hour away?

Acoustic

well he's come from far side of swords where he lives to finglas in that weather

pity there aint more like him who appreciate the work

ronkmonster

What if had taken 2 hours to diagnose it? 4 hours? it was a simple problem this time, someone (not a plumber) already mentioned it could be the thermostat.

Roads aren't that bad. and finglas to swords isn't that far for work.

Micky Dolenz

Acoustic wrote: »

pity there aint more like him who appreciate the work

:pac:, Those kind of statements really crack me up. i put it right up there with "sure, aren't you lucky to have a job"

Some work is better not to be had.

Glad you got sorted though, fair enough price too. Did he leave a cert?

Acoustic

yep a letter of compliance

Acoustic

Acoustic wrote: »

well he's come from far side of swords where he lives to finglas in that weather

pity there aint more like him who appreciate the work

Do you think the trades men on here who are happy to help, are going to be the type who have ripped you off and were incompetent, or the type that are fair minded and know their trade?

I live in Roscommon and i was in Waterside(Swords) yesterday for a no heat, must make me a Artic adventurer:). Gary.

Outkast_IRE

Glad you got it sorted but seriously like anything do your reasearch first and you will avoid this problem . Good plumbers have a good rep and people will be happy to recomend them

yoshytoshy

Acoustic wrote: »

well he's come from far side of swords where he lives to finglas in that weather

pity there aint more like him who appreciate the work

Can I have your mates number ?

Bruthal

Acoustic wrote: »

quick update

had a bloke over to look at it , didnt charge a call out , diagnosed the problem and quoted me there and then , he went off got a new thermostat , bled the radiators and balanced them , all done for €140 and the radiators are piping hot and its fixed

he'll be referred by me and used by me again if any trouble

i talked to him about charges and he said he never charges for a call out and only charges for work done or parts needed , now if i lived 2 hrs away he's charge and rightly so

Never charges call out, but also does if too far, and traveled all the way from swords to finglas, i think that says it all about your concept of service levels. It could of took a fair while to find problems in heating systems, so something simple like a room stat has worked out well. But it could of been somethin far more involved and then you might not think the service was so great even if it was as competently dealt with.

perry stanley

Just a short one, carefully assuming the boiler may not have been regularly serviced, it may need to be. If you want to ( make sure the power to boiler is off) remove the burner and let us know what the fire chamber looks like. Have a look at the nozzle while its out. Refit carefully..