Aer Lingus A330-300

PlaneLover

I was reading wikipedia and it says that Aer Lingus are getting a new A330 in April 2010. I was wondering whats happening about this and if there are any photos yet

wayne2107

Is this the one that will replace EI-DUB?

EchoIndia

ms755 wrote: »

I was reading wikipedia and it says that Aer Lingus are getting a new A330 in April 2010. I was wondering whats happening about this and if there are any photos yet

For an April delivery it's unlikely that the aircraft would be complete yet.

wayne2107

Griffair are pleased to announce that we are now an all Airbus fleet. We have just received plane 100 from an order of 100 from Airbus.

Three A350,s that are on order will be delievered over the next two days.

Our Fleet

A319-200 x 21
A320-200 x 27
A330-300 x 14
A321-200 x 59
A318 Elite x 09
A318-100 x 19
A340-200 x 23
A319-100CJ x 29
A350-800 x 2
A350-900R x 1

Griffair
Your Airline

pclancy

Wayne did you mean to post that in the Facebook AM thread?

PlaneLover

wayne2107 wrote: »

Is this the one that will replace EI-DUB?

yep

wayne2107

yep sorry folks, my mistake!

Dacian

pclancy wrote: »

Wayne did you mean to post that in the Facebook AM thread?

Brillant!!

tobias12

Folks it looks like EI DUB has been sold to Vladivostock Airlines (hope the spelling is correct). there are pics of it re-painted on airliners.net.

Lifelike

ms755 wrote: »

I was reading wikipedia and it says that Aer Lingus are getting a new A330 in April 2010. I was wondering whats happening about this and if there are any photos yet

They are taking delivery of a new A330 in April. That was part of the deal with Airbus last Summer.

donvito99

Sorry to bump this thread but I didn't want to start a new one!

Rumour has it over on PPRUNE that EI are to/have scouted out in Abu Dhabi for A330s from Etihad.

Interesting indeed if true. EI/EY - Friends with benefits?

Suasdaguna1

West coast 2014........

PlaneLover

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

West coast 2014........

That'd be excellent! Really miss the ability to fly direct to California from Ireland. Good bye stopovers!

donvito99

Woah, woah. Slow down folks! Still a rumour, we all now that the diligent Mueller plays his cards close to his chest. Don't hold your collective breaths.

pclive

If true Abu Dhabi will be first helping to bring Etihad to double daily

Bessarion

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

West coast 2014........

Greatly doubt that......I can't see EI going back that way until the A350 arrives. The economics between S13 and S14 will not have changed too much. The lowr fuel burn of the A350 will reduce the fuel cost on a West Coast route while also fa product differentiation.

Suasdaguna1

Yeah. I threw that west coast flyer out to the audience as a teaser. Heard through other sources they are sniffing at other 330s. Maybe they are looking to trade LAX and DUO, their 200's which will put a pin in the ballon.

Re the 350.....I can see this can being kicked down the road till infinity.

zone 1

what kind of market is out there for A330s 200 or 300 for lease.. what about the 340 is it to big plane to fill.....

BuffyBot

The 340's are considered gas guzzlers. Many airlines are already dumping some of them (VS and IB are two that come to mind)

donvito99

Is -DUO not relatively new though?

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

donvito99

That's what I was thinking. There is only so much capacity to be added though, we'll see the full effects of the return of -LAX this summer and I think its fair to say load factors will be good.

Are EI aligning themselves as a JKF/ORD/BOS specialist carrier?

I can see, as pclive said, EI returning to the Middle East to complement Etihad's connections.

We'll have to wait for the 350s to see a return to the West Coast, Canada.

Bessarion

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well already EI have announced extra frequency on their DUB-BOS and DUB-ORD route next year. DUB-MCO will remain at 3xWeekly. (Had been 2xWeekly for part of this Summer )

Having read a bit more on the A350 program.......It remains to be seen whether Airbus can delier the A359 in 2014 as expected. EI may have to wait till late '15 or even 2016 for their first 4 units.

lord lucan

donvito99 wrote: »

Are EI aligning themselves as a JKF/ORD/BOS specialist carrier?

This is what i think they're doing. They seem to be making a concerted effort to market their current US routes further afield and with a lot of success as the number of transfers onwards to the US with EI through DUB from continental Europe is on the rise.

This will be further enhanced with EI's move to T5 at JFK(ease of transfers with B6) and the 109 in the afternoon being precleared by USCBP.

martinsvi

Bessarion wrote: »

..The lowr fuel burn of the A350 will reduce the fuel cost on a West Coast route while also fa product differentiation.

I really think that A350 fuel-efficiency is overrated. Although I could not find any official document on a350 fuel consumption, if we divide max range for both - a330 and a350 with their tank size we get that they both will do 0.22 miles per gallon. I know it's extremely un-scientific and that kind of method shouldn't be used to calculate plane's efficiency but! it's clear that a350 will not be 25% more efficient as the Airbus says...

basically what I'm saying is - if Aerlingus would find west-coast routes attractive they would be here right now...

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

I really think that A350 fuel-efficiency is overrated. Although I could not find any official document on a350 fuel consumption, if we divide max range for both - a330 and a350 with their tank size we get that they both will do 0.22 miles per gallon. I know it's extremely un-scientific and that kind of method shouldn't be used to calculate plane's efficiency but! it's clear that a350 will not be 25% more efficient as the Airbus says...

basically what I'm saying is - if Aerlingus would find west-coast routes attractive they would be here right now...

I'm afraid I don't understand this logic. Brand new engines and a new wing should certainly bring it close to 25%. It's not in Airbus' interest to greatly overestimate the performance of what is its future long haul platform.

martinsvi

donvito99 wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't understand this logic. Brand new engines and a new wing should certainly bring it close to 25%. It's not in Airbus' interest to greatly overestimate the performance of what is its future long haul platform.

logic is very simple - imagine you have 2 cars: car A can travel 1000km with a full tank (60L). Car B can travel 1500km but it has a bigger tank (90L)
car B is only more efficient if you really need to travel 1500km because it can carry more weight (fuel). In an airline-like scenario when you need to travel 800km with just enough fuel it really doesnt make any difference which car you use.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only revolutionary thing about a350 is that it's lighter because of the composite materials used. The engine Trent XWB is pretty much another remake of 20 year old trent 700 and wings alone won't save the day..

I can't stress this enough - I'm sure a350 WILL be more efficient than a330, there's no doubt about it. I just don't think it's going to be enough efficient to make unprofitable routes suddenly become profitable.

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

logic is very simple - imagine you have 2 cars: car A can travel 1000km with a full tank (60L). Car B can travel 1500km but it has a bigger tank (90L)
car B is only more efficient if you really need to travel 1500km because it can carry more weight (fuel). In an airline-like scenario when you need to travel 800km with just enough fuel it really doesnt make any difference which car you use.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only revolutionary thing about a350 is that it's lighter because of the composite materials used. The engine Trent XWB is pretty much another remake of 20 year old trent 700 and wings alone won't save the day..

I can't stress this enough - I'm sure a350 WILL be more efficient than a330, there's no doubt about it. I just don't think it's going to be enough efficient to make unprofitable routes suddenly become profitable.

I do understand the basis of your contention. But nothing about this is basic. You're saying the 350 will be marginally more efficient than the A330. That's something all right! As I've said, this is Airbus' future, there are no half measures involved in this project. I think the introduction of the 350 will in turn lead to a return to the West Coast. EI have focused on yields and making a hub out of DUB, they will be far better placed to fill the premium cabin and make a success out of SFO or LAX. In the mean time, United might throw their hat in the ring.

I'll just refer you to these threads
1
2

Dacian

martinsvi wrote: »

I really think that A350 fuel-efficiency is overrated.......
basically what I'm saying is - if Aerlingus would find west-coast routes attractive they would be here right now...

I can't remember reading any claims that the A350 would be 25% more fuel efficient than the A330. I thought is was more like 15%. I may well be mistaken.

However there is no doubt that the A350 WILL BURN LESS FUEL than the A330. At the same time it will carry more pax (perhaps more freight too) So any West Coast route will have a greater chacne of profitability with a larger aircraft that burns less fuel.

Perhaps EI are attracted to the West Coast, but there is no point starting a route that costs too much to operate while at the same time might cannibalise loads on your existing network. Perhaps EI want to grow their numbers using DUB as a Europe-USA hub for another 2-3 years, THEN launch a direct West Coast service at a higher fare price for the pax who are willing to pay. The matured JFK/BOS/ORD connections market would be able to absorb any drop in numbers.

martinsvi

Dacian wrote: »

I can't remember reading any claims that the A350 would be 25% more fuel efficient than the A330. I thought is was more like 15%. I may well be mistaken.

Airbus home page says "Airbus brings together the very latest in aerodynamics, design and advanced technologies in the A350 XWB to provide a 25 per cent step-change in fuel efficiency compared to its current long-range competitor."

it's not clear what they mean by that but there's not a lot of options.

Dacian wrote: »

However there is no doubt that the A350 WILL BURN LESS FUEL than the A330.

If you could back it up with any statement/document made by Airbus or associates that would make me shut up for once

Dacian wrote: »

At the same time it will carry more pax (perhaps more freight too)

simply - no, it wont! cargo hold will be exact same size, where as for A333 2 class config you can have 335 seats, EI have 322, for A359 you can have 315-366 depending on how big do you want your 1st class.. it's roughly the same number


I would love nothing more than direct flight from DUB to SFO and if it does happen, I'll be the first one to book the ticket but we have to understand that the competition in these routes is huge! You can get a return flight with 1 connection for around 400 eur, how do you fight with that?

If I would be in position to make decisions, I would consider South America, India, perhaps Uzbekistan/Kazakhstan. Competition is by far smaller and a rapidly growing middle-class in these territories would open a decent transcontinental passenger flow

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

If you could back it up with any statement/document made by Airbus or associates that would make me shut up for once

Is that really necessary?

simply - no, it wont! cargo hold will be exact same size, where as for A333 2 class config you can have 335 seats, EI have 322, for A359 you can have 315-366 depending on how big do you want your 1st class.. it's roughly the same number

Aer Lingus will more than likely have a configuration tipping the scale at 350, which is significantly more, not "roughly the same".

I would love nothing more than direct flight from DUB to SFO and if it does happen, I'll be the first one to book the ticket but we have to understand that the competition in these routes is huge! You can get a return flight with 1 connection for around 400 eur, how do you fight with that?

By offering connecting passengers from the UK/Europe €400 flights! This is the direction EI are going in.

If I would be in position to make decisions, I would consider South America, India, perhaps Uzbekistan/Kazakhstan. Competition is by far smaller and a rapidly growing middle-class in these territories would open a decent transcontinental passenger flow

You saved your best 'til last!

martinsvi

donvito99 wrote: »

Is that really necessary?

no

donvito99 wrote: »

Aer Lingus will more than likely have a configuration tipping the scale at 350, which is significantly more, not "roughly the same".

how do you know that? surely by going to LAX/SFO you would not take seats away from your 1st class config!

donvito99 wrote: »

By offering connecting passengers from the UK/Europe €400 flights! This is the direction EI are going in.

oh what a great idea - boost your business by jumping into market where supply overwhelms the demand!

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

oh what a great idea - boost your business by jumping into market where supply overwhelms the demand!

Why is it then that reportedly 60-70% of tatl pax with EI come from places like AMS, one of the best connected airports in Europe?

martinsvi

donvito99 wrote: »

Why is it then that reportedly 60-70% of tatl pax with EI come from places like AMS, one of the best connected airports in Europe?

that's not what I've heard... A guy from EI said to me that most connecting PAX come from Italy and Spain... a market that has limited interest in LAX/SFO.. there were also a lot of folks from Germany but now Lufthansa is fighting back big time with their A380s.. listen how about sharing with your source of information huh? it's seems that you are so well informed about everything but nothing you say can really be backed up by anything...

Stovepipe

Hi all,
there will be fleet changes in the A320s in the near future. two out, two in, as far as I know.

regards
Stovepipe

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

Italy

I've heard this also, but I am confident that AMS is the point of origin with the most pax connecting with EI.

a market that has limited interest in LAX/SFO..

Really? And you suggesting EI fly to the 'bekistans!

there were also a lot of folks from Germany but now Lufthansa is fighting back big time with their A380s..

In direct response to EI no doubt.

listen how about sharing with your source of information huh? it's seems that you are so well informed about everything but nothing you say can really be backed up by anything...

In all fairness, you've mentioned you heard from a friend. The threads on airliners.net that I linked are great, they've been running for years and have charts and importantly graphs that would resolve the whole pax/cargo issue we're having. I'm in no mood to trawl through several years of posts though!

Suasdaguna1

This old 350v 330 debate is a can I have said in previous posts that will be booted up the road for a long time......deliveries in 2016 to EIN. ? Dream on.

Latest with the 330s is they have increased their mtow again plus their mlw. As a previous poster mentioned, it won't be down to if they have a 350 or not to set sail again to the west coast. It'll be tighter turn arounds and having 1 1/2 aircraft if you get my drift re utilization on the route.

I can see EIN getting deals on the latest 330s and moving the 350 slots.

Bottom line.....it's great to see rumblings again re AL medium/long haul.

donvito99

It wasn't long back that we were griping about the 350 being "too big" for EI and the 787 being a much better option!

And do deliveries not start in 2015, this excluding problems Airbus might have, and they've been very cautious with how they will deliver the 350.

martinsvi

donvito99 wrote: »

Really? And you suggesting EI fly to the 'bekistans!

yes, and feeding them to existing transatlantic routes or providing a gateway to Europe while getting tour operators on board and organizing package deals for your average European tourist that has seen "everything"..

I hope your only opinion about these countries doesn't come from the Borat movie - they are blooming economies and oil money means business!

I know it's a complete long shot and it is risky, but at least it has the potential.

You can't ignore the fact that SFO/LAX didn't work out for EI on last attempt, you can't just imagine that a little more efficient plane will suddenly make all things to work (15% less fuel doesn't mean 15% off the ticket price as fuel is only a part (some say 30%, some say 50%) of the expense of the flight).

Also keep in mind the partnership with JetBlue - it only works if both airlines keep feeding passengers to each other equally. I believe, if EI would start westcoast operations, this partnership would break into pieces and no-one really can't afford that at the minute...

donvito99

martinsvi wrote: »

I hope your only opinion about these countries doesn't come from the Borat movie - they are blooming economies and oil money means business!

Certainly not.

I know it's a complete long shot and it is risky, but at least it has the potential.

Why, why, why would EI fly to the Middle of Asia before destinations with obvious business and diaspora connections to Ireland itself? Why try and compete with the likes of Turkish or Austrian who already have a market presence in these regions? This is armchair airline management. (Which is exactly what I'm doing BTW!)

You can't ignore the fact that SFO/LAX didn't work out for EI on last attempt, you can't just imagine that a little more efficient plane will suddenly make all things to work (15% less fuel doesn't mean 15% off the ticket price as fuel is only a part (some say 30%, some say 50%) of the expense of the flight).

Let's look at what's changed. More feed now coming through DUB, aeroplanes that are not falling apart with marketable cabins (excl. the business seats), new terminal, EI Regional, new lounge, new partnerships, and most importantly, signs of a real commitment to the marketing of routes (something that was abysmal during the Mannion era), and even small things like improvements to the website and pre-order meals. The EI of 2007/8 cannot be compared to today's airline.

All that is needed now is a decent Gold Circle Club.

Throw in the 350s and the West Coast becomes a much more achievable and doable route, not a fairytale like Astana and the like. This is Aer Lingus not Lufthansa.

Also keep in mind the partnership with JetBlue - it only works if both airlines keep feeding passengers to each other equally. I believe, if EI would start westcoast operations, this partnership would break into pieces and no-one really can't afford that at the minute...

Why? Its not like jetblue compete between Ireland and the US. Perhaps United might be a bit peeved. That isn't to say that something couldn't be worked out. No way would EI expansion to NA be dictated by codeshare partners.

Rocky Bay

donvito99 wrote: »

Sorry to bump this thread but I didn't want to start a new one!

Rumour has it over on PPRUNE that EI are to/have scouted out in Abu Dhabi for A330s from Etihad.

Interesting indeed if true. EI/EY - Friends with benefits?

"PPRUNE" ?

donvito99

Rocky Bay wrote: »

"PPRUNE" ?

PPRUNE

Shamrock231

Rocky Bay wrote: »

"PPRUNE" ?

http://www.pprune.org/

More probably the topic found here...
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/459473-aer-lingus-6-a-53.html

martinsvi

donvito99 wrote: »

... The EI of 2007/8 cannot be compared to today's airline.

perhaps you are right, only time will tell

donvito99

From its annual results;

Aer Lingus will return to higher capacity growth in 2013 adding one aircraft on the North Atlantic B]formerly the IAD based a/c no doubt[/B and four short haul aircraft in cooperation with Virgin Atlantic out of London Heathrow. This represents an increase of 5.0% in our available seat kilometres. We will also fly one Airbus A330 aircraft during the next two winter seasons, with an option for a further one, on behalf of a major European tour
operator which will improve aircraft utilisation in the low season

Any idea who this is?

Zonda999

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-07/aer-lingus-seeks-more-deals-like-virgin-lease-as-ireland-stalls.html

Bloomberg wrote:

A surplus Airbus A330-200 wide-body will also operate from Scandinavia to the Caribbean on behalf of a major tour operator for the next three winters, Mueller said yesterday, with the plane to be used on trans-Atlantic flights during the summer. That’s after a lease deal with United Continental Holdings Inc. for flights between Madrid and Washington expired in October.

Thomas Cook maybe? Don't know of anyone other tour operators operating long haul from Scandinavia

BuffyBot

Id imagine so too. They're the major one there though TUI also has operations.