Joint Emergency Comms Rooms

Silop08

Was just wondering to myself the other day if there would be any benefit in having joint emergency comms rooms manned by Fire, Ambulance, Garda. Would it help co ordinate scenes of emergencys and help get assistance if we'll say the Fire Brigade were under pressure and needed assistance from the Garda or vice versa. Just wondering

CB19Kevo

This happens to some degree already, The Fire Service in Dublin have a HSE controller working in the same comms room.
There is no reason why fire and ambulance service control could not be better integrated such as is the case in the US.
Ime sure when Tetra is fully rolled out there will be methods of linking all services if required.

Trojan911

Silop08 wrote: »

Was just wondering to myself the other day if there would be any benefit in having joint emergency comms rooms manned by Fire, Ambulance, Garda. Would it help co ordinate scenes of emergencys and help get assistance if we'll say the Fire Brigade were under pressure and needed assistance from the Garda or vice versa. Just wondering

I would imagine there is a contingency plan for this in place in the event of a major incident.

I would also imagine that this is practised during a large public event where the emrgency services would share a room to co-ordinate the event.

Otherwise it wouldn't really serve a purpose for day to day running.

TheNog

I can see an added benefit of reducing costs by having all services in one call centre say for each region. Other benefits would be of course major incidents and also the smaller incidents such as RTAs where Fire, Ambulance and Gardai are required or if Ambulance or Fire require Gardai to a scene of a violent domestic/patient or a suspicious fire scene.

Hooch

Only thing I can see wrong with it is the Official Secrets Act. When a 999/112 centre transfer to a Garda station they can no longer listen in, unless they are sure it is a prank call. They can however monitor Ambulance and Fire service calls. This is due to the OSA.

There would be merit in having all services in the same centre though.

As trojan said there is a plan for major emergencies for one control centre.

drill

CB19Kevo wrote: »

This happens to some degree already, The Fire Service in Dublin have a HSE controller working in the same comms room.
There is no reason why fire and ambulance service control could not be better integrated such as is the case in the US.
Im sure when Tetra is fully rolled out there will be methods of linking all services if required.

Just to correct you kevo, The HSE NAS have a control taking ambulance calls for parts of Dublin, all Wicklow ( and soon to be Kildare) in the same room as DFB who take ambulance calls for Dublin, fire calls for Dublin and large number of other counties around the north/ east/midlands areas (CAMP EAST)

Im sure a few DFB lads will give you the full list wicklow kilkenny longford meath etc .

To be honest i see no benefit as if you require an ambulance from either service(NAS/DFB) you RING to check availability . so makes no difference weather your ringing across the room or calling Istanbul !! Same would apply for the garda you ring harcourt Sq

Just my 10 cents

TheNog

drill wrote: »

To be honest i see no benefit as if you require an ambulance from either service(NAS/DFB) you RING to check availability . so makes no difference weather your ringing across the room or calling Istanbul !! Same would apply for the garda you ring harcourt Sq

Just my 10 cents

There is a very real problem at the moment in my station anyway is the phone is so busy during the day an emergency call from ambulance or fire sometimes has to go through the station 999 phone just to speak with someone. The same goes for my divisional HQ. This of course is pre Tetra rollout for all services which should alleviate this problem.

Is there any benefits that each service could provide for each other that anyone can think of?

DrIndy

i think you need a central control room - if the issue is clearly a gardai issue and concerns over security or confidentiality apply - then there should be a way to route them on rapidly.

But the classical example of an RTA is common - minor RTA - control combined can decide to dispatch only gardai

Major RTA - currently you need to call 999 3 times to get fire, paramedic and gardai on the scene if you want to be certain all will arrive. Otherwise, you need to specifically state to the first person you get to that they need to contact those additional services as they are required.

TheNog

nice guy always wrote: »

Only thing I can see wrong with it is the Official Secrets Act. When a 999/112 centre transfer to a Garda station they can no longer listen in, unless they are sure it is a prank call. They can however monitor Ambulance and Fire service calls. This is due to the OSA.

There would be merit in having all services in the same centre though.

As trojan said there is a plan for major emergencies for one control centre.

Cant see a problem with the OSA as it is only emergency calls only and any patrol car dispatched would be taking all the details but I suppose it would come up every now and then so maybe a different room for Gardai but in the same building.

DrIndy wrote: »

i think you need a central control room - if the issue is clearly a gardai issue and concerns over security or confidentiality apply - then there should be a way to route them on rapidly.

But the classical example of an RTA is common - minor RTA - control combined can decide to dispatch only gardai

Major RTA - currently you need to call 999 3 times to get fire, paramedic and gardai on the scene if you want to be certain all will arrive. Otherwise, you need to specifically state to the first person you get to that they need to contact those additional services as they are required.

+1

alentejo

A joint emergency control centre was established in Wiltshire several years ago with Police, Fire and Ambulance. (Ambulance has subsequently moved)

However, in practice, there was one large Control centre with both ambulance and fire separated and in effect operated as separate control centres.

Problems are that the 3 different services have completely different requirements and operational procedures...They are after all separate organisations.

I think the idea is a good one, however it would require a complete review on how the various Emergency services operate and a legislative change.

Bosco boy

DrIndy wrote: »

i think you need a central control room - if the issue is clearly a gardai issue and concerns over security or confidentiality apply - then there should be a way to route them on rapidly.

But the classical example of an RTA is common - minor RTA - control combined can decide to dispatch only gardai

Major RTA - currently you need to call 999 3 times to get fire, paramedic and gardai on the scene if you want to be certain all will arrive. Otherwise, you need to specifically state to the first person you get to that they need to contact those additional services as they are required.

I disagree, I had the unfortunate expierence in the past year to arrive first on the scene of a fatal RTA while off duty involving two cars and 3 people ( 2 survived), I dialed 999 and asked fire the fire service, and at least two ambulances obviously telling them how many people were involved, I also asked for the gardai, the operator kept me on the line and dispatched exactly what was required and ran me back with an up date, I had told them I was a member of the EM services, I could not fault the 999 service and really its up to the services on the ground who are professional to co ordinate the scene and resources which was done by all agencys, I find this generally works well and its the people at the scene who know whats needed, this is what they do.

Zuppy

I would reckon the only way to save money in a multi agency control centre (and you will only see it if it saves money) is to have general controllers. But with the different services and different protocols this will be way too difficult.
The Wiltshire control centre shared location and telephone lines. So basically they shared a roof only. (for fire and ambulance anyway)

Local knowledge and service specific knowledge would also be lost. And don't forget we all have different areas of operations (station areas), so the controllers job gets even more complicated.

Roll on tetra though, we can then abuse each other across the services on radios that actually work. seriously a proper radio net that can be localised to an incident and cross agency comms at major emergencies are IMHO worth more in both the short and long term than a joint control room. And the encryption of dependable radio comms would be an added bonus.

deaglan169

with regard to the last post on on-scene comms presently there is already a channel allocated for this fire service and ambulance hand protables currently have this channel but gardai dont as there handhelds arent UHF but to date i have never heard of this channel even being used probably most crews dont realise this, when tetra is rolled out this should work but fire services wont be migratting in the near future as they spent a fortune on an already out dated radio service

Zuppy

Well you learn something new everyday. That channel to the ambulance service would come in very handy.