pedals and cleats

JacksonHeightsOwn

fixed and floating, what exactly does this mean?

ive only got the cheapest look keo ones on my bike, but i was rooting around on bikeradar and read something about floating cleats for less knee pain,

and quite frankly, im now confused

Beasty

chrisbonnie wrote: »

fixed and floating, what exactly does this mean?

ive only got the cheapest look keo ones on my bike, but i was rooting around on bikeradar and read something about floating cleats for less knee pain,

and quite frankly, im now confused

With Keos there are three choices (which are fortunately colour-coded)

The black ones have no float. This means you cannot move your foot around while clipped in. Basically this is a rigid connection, hence there is less flexibility and more chance of knee damage

The grey ones give 4.5 degrees of "float" - this means you can twist your foot up to 4.5 degrees either way without disengaging the pedal

The red ones have 9 degrees of float, but otherwise are the same as the grey ones

The pedals normally come with the grey cleats, and I normally use these (although I have also used the red ones - neither of them have caused me any knee problems)

Ultimately it is down to personal choice, but the grey ones are probably a good starting point if experimenting

short circuit

There are 2 things for each pedal/cleat combination ..
1. How tightly the cleats are held to the pedal ... this is important if you are sprinting or pulling a lot with your leg to ensure you do not uncleat by error
2. The other as you are asking is the float. The float is basically exactly that ... instead of rigidly locking your feet to the pedal ... the cleat can rotate slightly within the pedal to accomodate your ankles/knees/hips in case they are not as precise as the machined pistons

The tightness is usually adjustable and is part of the pedal.

The float comes from the pedal-cleat combination. For keos .. you can get 3 colours of cleats ...

black - 0 degree float
grey - 4.5 degrees IIRC
red - 9 degrees IIRC

What you use is completely up to you ... the reds won't unclip any more easily than the blacks ... but 7 degree of float is a lot and you will feel like your legs are floating on top of the pedal till you get used to it ... but if your knees demand it ... go for it ... and once your body gets used to it, you can go to the greys and then the blacks.

By the way, the cheapest keos do not have the adjustment for tightness ... that only comes with the 2nd in their range ... the classics I believe.

There are also other pedal-cleat systems which offer more float than the looks ... SPDs for one do ... and so do crank bros and speedplays.

JacksonHeightsOwn

short circuit wrote: »

There are 2 things for each pedal/cleat combination ..
1. How tightly the cleats are held to the pedal ... this is important if you are sprinting or pulling a lot with your leg to ensure you do not uncleat by error
2. The other as you are asking is the float. The float is basically exactly that ... instead of rigidly locking your feet to the pedal ... the cleat can rotate slightly within the pedal to accomodate your ankles/knees/hips in case they are not as precise as the machined pistons

The tightness is usually adjustable and is part of the pedal.

The float comes from the pedal-cleat combination. For keos .. you can get 3 colours of cleats ...

black - 0 degree float
grey - 4.5 degrees IIRC
red - 9 degrees IIRC

What you use is completely up to you ... the reds won't unclip any more easily than the blacks ... but 7 degree of float is a lot and you will feel like your legs are floating on top of the pedal till you get used to it ... but if your knees demand it ... go for it ... and once your body gets used to it, you can go to the greys and then the blacks.

By the way, the cheapest keos do not have the adjustment for tightness ... that only comes with the 2nd in their range ... the classics I believe.

There are also other pedal-cleat systems which offer more float than the looks ... SPDs for one do ... and so do crank bros and speedplays.

spd`s, now you`ve opened a can of worms, please explain the differences

at the moment im using the grey cleats, no bother really, i just got new shoes for christmas, but the problem is, the measurements on the new shoes weren`t the same as my old shoes, so my cleat position, which was done in irishfit, is now all mixed up, i need new cleats anyway, so just want to see if there`s much difference

short circuit

chrisbonnie wrote: »

spd`s, now you`ve opened a can of worms, please explain the differences

at the moment im using the grey cleats, no bother really, i just got new shoes for christmas, but the problem is, the measurements on the new shoes weren`t the same as my old shoes, so my cleat position, which was done in irishfit, is now all mixed up, i need new cleats anyway, so just want to see if there`s much difference

SPDs are mountain bike pedals and cleats ... completely different from keos which are for road bikes ... SPDs do have a bit more float in them.

But having said that, from what you said above, it seems as if its the cleat position and not float which is your issue as the same cleats worked fine earlier with the older shoe.

A few simple checks then ...
1. Is there a difference in thickness of sole between old and new shoes ... if so ... you might need to adjust your saddle height to compensate for this.

2. The mistake we often make is to point the cleats straight ahead on the shoe ... what you need to adjust for is that our feet do not always point straight ahead when we stand or pedal normally. So stand on a sheet of paper and draw an outline of your feet ... and see which way they are pointed ... and use this to guide the position of cleats on your shoes.

3. Lastly, is the fore-aft position of the cleat ... just try to get them half to a full centimeter in front of the ball of your feet and you should be OK.

The above will bring you very very close to the irishfit set up

Ryaner

short circuit wrote: »

SPDs are mountain bike pedals and cleats ... completely different from keos which are for road bikes ... SPDs do have a bit more float in them.

SPD-SL style are the road going version which lots of people have.

I now use Speedplays and they are great. Up to 15 degress float in each direction (Look don't come close) but the really great thing is you can customise the in and outward float independently. I don't run anything close to the 15 degrees available but I do have a fair bit more than my old shimano cleats. They also feel more secure.

JacksonHeightsOwn

short circuit wrote: »

SPDs are mountain bike pedals and cleats ... completely different from keos which are for road bikes ... SPDs do have a bit more float in them.

But having said that, from what you said above, it seems as if its the cleat position and not float which is your issue as the same cleats worked fine earlier with the older shoe.

A few simple checks then ...
1. Is there a difference in thickness of sole between old and new shoes ... if so ... you might need to adjust your saddle height to compensate for this.

2. The mistake we often make is to point the cleats straight ahead on the shoe ... what you need to adjust for is that our feet do not always point straight ahead when we stand or pedal normally. So stand on a sheet of paper and draw an outline of your feet ... and see which way they are pointed ... and use this to guide the position of cleats on your shoes.

3. Lastly, is the fore-aft position of the cleat ... just try to get them half to a full centimeter in front of the ball of your feet and you should be OK.

The above will bring you very very close to the irishfit set up

unfortunetly, highly unlikely, my right knee was misalligned during the irishfit fitting session, the chap there twisted the cleat a particular way, which in turn brought my knee in,

ill get there though

furiousox

Well there's always these to consider......

http://www.protonlocks.com/

JacksonHeightsOwn

Ryaner wrote: »

SPD-SL style are the road going version which lots of people have.

I now use Speedplays and they are great. Up to 15 degress float in each direction (Look don't come close) but the really great thing is you can customise the in and outward float independently. I don't run anything close to the 15 degrees available but I do have a fair bit more than my old shimano cleats. They also feel more secure.

ryaner, how do you find the speedplays? the double sided thing looks great, which ones have you got?

i now finally understand, the 15 degrees of float is how much angle your foot moves before it starts to unlock, am i right?

Ryaner

chrisbonnie wrote: »

ryaner, how do you find the speedplays? the double sided thing looks great, which ones have you got?

i now finally understand, the 15 degrees of float is how much angle your foot moves before it starts to unlock, am i right?

I'd never go back to single sided entry after using speedplays. You stomp down and go in. There are other, cheaper double sided entry pedals however if that is all you are after.

You are right on the float. However 15 degrees is quite a long way to unclip, and on the inward angle, you'll probably hit the bike frame long before that. That is why you need to adjust them before you go out on the road.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Ryaner wrote: »

I'd never go back to single sided entry after using speedplays. You stomp down and go in. There are other, cheaper double sided entry pedals however if that is all you are after.

You are right on the float. However 15 degrees is quite a long way to unclip, and on the inward angle, you'll probably hit the bike frame long before that. That is why you need to adjust them before you go out on the road.

yeah, the double sided thing looks great i have to say, if i was going to change pedals, it`d be another year or so, ill muster on with the keo`s