lock and Jacob in lost

Buffy the bitch

Just watching it there.

Remember the guy at the start he said I'll prove you wrong when Jacob was eating fish the boat was in the sea, is that guy Lock when Jacob died?

Sad Professor

Buffy the bitch wrote: »

Just watching it there.

Remember the guy at the start he said I'll prove you wrong when Jacob was eating fish the boat was in the sea, is that guy Lock when Jacob died?

That's the implication and what most people believe to be the case. The guy (we call him "Esau" or "Man in Black") tells Jacob that he's going to find a "loophole" one day. Then when Jacob sees Locke at the end he remarks, "well you found your loophole". The conclusion drawn from this is that Locke never came back to life (as was earlier implied) and that in fact this new Locke ("Un-Locke") is actually Esau.

Although, as I argued on the Christian thread, this may be a red herring. Un-Locke is too much like the real Locke to be Esau imo. Either way, we won't know for certain until next season.

indough

i thought the loophole was that he himself couldnt kill jacob and he managed to get someone else in there to do it

Jay Ru

Sad Professor wrote: »

Although, as I argued on the Christian thread, this may be a red herring. Un-Locke is too much like the real Locke to be Esau imo. Either way, we won't know for certain until next season.

thats the best expalination u can give, it not Esua pretending to be Lock cus he's doing to good of a job at it. When Bens daughter appeared with Smokie in the temple, she seemed to be exaclty the same person as she was before she dies, same goes for Christian and Yemi.

If Esau was after spending his whole life on the island trying to find away to find a loop hole (kill jacob), surely he'd want to witness the event. And why o why wud the real Locke want Jacob dead to begin with.

Sad Professor

Jay Ru wrote: »

thats the best expalination u can give, it not Esua pretending to be Lock cus he's doing to good of a job at it.

I've gone into more detail about it in the other thread.

When Bens daughter appeared with Smokie in the temple, she seemed to be exaclty the same person as she was before she dies, same goes for Christian and Yemi.

They weren't anything like the real people, that's my whole point. Yemi even said to Eko, "You speak to me as if I were your brother". He made no pretence, aside from his physical appearance, of being the real Yemi. Same goes for Alex, who acted very creepy and threatened to hunt down and destroy Ben. As for Christian, he may have been a bad father, but not so bad as to convince his daughter to abandon her baby in the jungle. In contrast, Un-Locke behaves very much like the real Locke.

And why o why wud the real Locke want Jacob dead to begin with.

Who knows, but it's not beyond a plausible explanation. Maybe the island told him to do it. Or maybe Jacob isn't as good as we think. Or maybe Locke is acting similar to a certain character in the Harry Potter books...

Jay Ru

Sad Professor wrote: »

In contrast, Un-Locke behaves very much like the real Locke.

Lets just pretend for one sec that Un'Locke is Esua pretending to be Locke, he wudn't off getting very far convincing people he was Locke if he started acting different to original Locke now wud he.

In the case of Yemi, until the end of the conversation with Ecko and the odd evil glace he acted very similar to the Yemi we seen in the flash backs. And as far Alex's re-incarnation goes if she had of acted her normal self she wouldn't of been able to scare Ben into doing what she wanted him to do. Theres one other factor to this as well Yemi and Alex's re-incarnations where only seen by one person so they cud of acted whatever way they wanted to cus if Ecko or Ben told any one about it no one wud really believe them cus of all the crazy **** on the island but in the case of Un-Locke everybody seen him at one stage or another so he had to be very consistant in the way he acted.

U posted else where that Un-Locke was surprised by the news that Alex and Smokie had appeared to Ben in the temple, right? Well if Un-Locke was involved (which i think he is) how else wud he of acted there, "Yeah i know Ben, i sent them there to scare the **** out ya so u'd do my bidding, now please go into that giant foot over there and stab the man u've been following blindly for most of your life"

Sad Professor

Those are all good points, Jay Ru. I welcome the criticism of what I'm suggesting here. I initially embraced the idea that Un-Locke was Esau. The reason I'm rejecting it now is because I find the implications of it inconsistent what has previously been established on the show. I don't see any resemblance between Smokey and Esau - making them the same entity creates more problems than it solves. And yet Esau kinda has to be Smokey to make sense of Un-Locke.

Jay Ru

Sad Professor wrote: »

And yet Esau kinda has to be Smokey to make sense of Un-Locke.

Can u go into more detail on that

Tilt Gone

Just my two cents. i think Esau is definitley now pretending to be John locke. The man in black has apperaed more times than you might think. I'm sure it is him pretending to be Ben's daughter when he goes with Lock to be judged. It's just to convient that black smoke is there one min then Ben's daughter appears. Who incidently tells Ben that he must now do every thing that John Locke tells him to do. this is all part of Esau's plan to set Ben up to kill Christian

I also think that any time we have seen Jack's father it has been Easu/Black smoke also. I think he can take on the form of anyone who has died on the island. This would make sense as both Jack's father and Locke's bodies were on the planes when they crashed on the island. As well as being pretending to be Ben's daughter.

And finally, did anyone notice that at the end of the last episode when the bomb goes off there's a bright light and not an explosion. Just like the bright lights that happened when the island was jumping through time. Man I can't wait season 6

Sad Professor

Jay Ru wrote: »

Can u go into more detail on that

I'm coming from the (possibly mistaken) assumption that the shadowy figure in the cabin was Esau. The circle of ash, the invisibility and the poltergeist-type behaviour all suggest to me that he is a disembodied ghost or spirit who was imprisoned within a "magic circle" at some point in the past.

But how does a disembodied spirit take the physical form of Locke and all of his memories without inhabiting the real Locke's body? It makes sense to propose that Esau = Smokey as Smokey has shown several of the traits needed to pull this off - he scans people's memories and he (seemingly) can take the form of dead people.

However, Smokey is a big, loud, blundering cloud of smoke. He can't even get through the Dharma fence. Like a dog, it obeys Ben's whistle and comes running to the Barracks to take care of Keamy and crew. Everything we know about Smokey seems very incompatible with a devious and cunning entity trapped in a cabin who later manipulates Ben into killing Jacob

But maybe I have the disembodied spirit thing all wrong and we're stuck with the idea of a shape-shifter, be it either Esau or Smokey. I would prefer that it was Esau and Smokey was his pet.

me-skywalker

Sad Professor wrote: »

However, Smokey is a big, loud, blundering cloud of smoke. He can't even get through the Dharma fence. Like a dog, it obeys Ben's whistle and comes running to the Barracks to take care of Keamy and crew. Everything we know about Smokey seems very incompatible with a devious and cunning entity trapped in a cabin who later manipulates Ben into killing Jacob

But maybe I have the disembodied spirit thing all wrong and we're stuck with the idea of a shape-shifter, be it either Esau or Smokey. I would prefer that it was Esau and Smokey was his pet.

Yea I have to agree I am 100% convinced that Easu and Smokey are not each other / are serparte entities or that Easu can take the form of a big cloud.

In the episode with Rouseaus husband we are clearly given the definition of what Smokey is and what it is a security system for.

If Easu really wanted to 'scan' people he would surely just appear as himself and do it rather than a cloud and give away too much info on location/powers the losties are actually dealing with.