Some blind tests?

TelePaul

Was thinking it might be cool to set up some blind tests; we're talking guitar tones here, with a soft amp sim, a soft amp sim with impulse cab, mic'd valve and mic'd ss samples. What do we think?

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Was thinking it might be cool to set up some blind tests; we're talking guitar tones here, with a soft amp sim, a soft amp sim with impulse cab, mic'd valve and mic'd ss samples. What do we think?

To what ends TP?

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

To what ends TP?

Debunk a few myths maybe? Challenge a few assumptions and test a few ears?

PaulBrewer

Cool ! What sort of myths ?

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Cool ! What sort of myths ?

That valves are 'better' sounding than SS and that mic'd are better than d.i tones.

Seziertisch

This would only work if the set up used to make the impulses was also used to record the amp track.

It would have to be the same amp, cab, mic, pre etc. in the same room. Otherwise, it is interesting but doesn't really tell us anything.

And in both cases the guitar would need to be reamped to keep the performance the exact same.

TelePaul

Seziertisch wrote: »

This would only work if the set up used to make the impulses was also used to record the amp track.

It would have to be the same amp, cab, mic, pre etc. in the same room. Otherwise, it is interesting but doesn't really tell us anything.

And in both cases the guitar would need to be reamped to keep the performance the exact same.

I don't know anything about impulses so I'll put my hands up there. Although I don't see why the performance would have to be exactly the same...surely our brains can distinguish between what our ears hear as good and what are ears perceive as a deviation from went before?

Another option would be to A/B amp sims vs the real deal; a Fender sim vs a Twin Reverb, a Mesa sim vs a Dual Rec etc etc.

Seziertisch

TelePaul wrote: »

I don't know anything about impulses so I'll put my hands up there. Although I don't see why the performance would have to be exactly the same...surely our brains can distinguish between what our ears hear as good and what are ears perceive as a deviation from went before?

Another option would be to A/B amp sims vs the real deal; a Fender sim vs a Twin Reverb, a Mesa sim vs a Dual Rec etc etc.

I don't think having different performances makes that much of a difference, but changing picking position by a centimetre or so either way can make for a significant enough change. Either way gettting the same performance is easy to do with a guitar (unlike any other instrument).

Also in terms of sims versus the real deal, unless you had the actual amp that was used for the sim there are too many variables. Amps which are ostensibly the same can be very different. This is true of comparisons between vintage reissues of classic amps and older models of the same amp, as well as between older models that might ostensibly be the same.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ive been mucking about a good bit now with

1/ pod xt
2/ GTR3 vst
3/ mesa boogie with hotplate DI and IR cabs using SIR 2
4/ mesa with mic

1/ = has a grainy brittle element / and thinness that you cannot get rid off.
worst of the lot id say

2/ is pretty good , still a slight digital edgeiness that you need to work around - i use this half the time

3/ i like this alot - but the hotplate really compresses the signal ,
might try a different make like a weber attenuator - but you do get real smooth big sound using this setup
use this the other half time

4/ this is always the best - but you need to push some air in most cases
i use this in some cases where possible.
always my favourite - but 3 is well worth a punt .

PaulBrewer

Has anyone tried either of the Softube Amprooms yet ?

http://www.softube.com/

I thought their Bass Amp was very good as have a couple of posters here.

Another variable in a shoot out is the quality of the pre and A2D conversion before a Sim - i.e. if it's not great nor will the final tone be, I'd have thought.

PMI

Worth a try....

but the real amps will win unless recorded really badly in someones fridge, covered in kitchen foil, and left over night to sound really crap like a plugin

Seziertisch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Has anyone tried either of the Softube Amprooms yet ?

http://www.softube.com/

I thought their Bass Amp was very good as have a couple of posters here.

Another variable in a shoot out is the quality of the pre and A2D conversion before a Sim - i.e. if it's not great nor will the final tone be, I'd have thought.

I have used Vintage Amproom. Its good, definitely useful, DI and A2D play a big role in how good the results will be, though.

My problem with sims is that unless you have hardware/transformer coupled gear at some stage of the process they always tend to sound like a sim.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ahh.

my GTR3 software takes its input from my pacifica pre DI - which is transfomer coupled

maybe thats why it sounds alot more non-digital than the pod ?

Seziertisch

DaDumTish wrote: »

ahh.

my GTR3 software takes its input from my pacifica pre DI - which is transfomer coupled

maybe thats why it sounds alot more non-digital than the pod ?

It can't hurt. Also for the POD, the signal will already have been converted and reconverted once internally before conversion for the DAW.

bedbugs

Don't have the time to contribute, but I'll look forward to reading about anything you guys do.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

bedbugs wrote: »

Don't have the time to contribute, but I'll look forward to reading about anything you guys do.

thats the spirit !
onwards and upwards

PaulBrewer

Do have time to contribute .....

but won't !

studiorat

You should start with a pre recorded DI guitar any use a re-amping kit anyway...

I think there's too many variables to properly test this stuff. Given that the room has such an effect on the sound etc. Not to mention mic positioning by an experienced engineer blah blah blah...

I think you should publish your methodology first so we can all tear that to bits before any experimentation takes place:D