Updating Graphics Card

Ó Tuama

Hello,

I was looking to update my graphics card for the new year or when ever the next time Graphics Cards tend to come down in price.

I've done allot of reading about upgrading cards in this site and other ones too and herd stuff about having to update the PSU and CPU and other hardware/software as well as that but what I can't seem to get to grips with is what is the best make/model and type of card I can get for the system I have at the moment.

I want to get a new card so that I will be able to get the most out of my system, my games and my LG 19'' HDTV, and would like to have something that will play most games on the highest/reasonable settings without any lag. e.g GTA:IV, COD: MD and loads more games that are expected to come out over the next year or so until I buy or upgrade a computer.

Here are my present System Specs:

Dell Vostro 200
Intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Windows Vista™ Ultimate (6.0, Build 6002) Service Pack 2
3070MB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
Page File: 2089MB used, 4282MB available
DirectX 11
ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO - 128MB
Display Memory: 1394 MB
Dedicated Memory: 115 MB
Shared Memory: 1279 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor/TV: LG 19'' HDTV: 1440 X 900

If you need any more information about my system or HDTV/Monitor and or what I want to achieve out of them just drop a reply below and I'll give them to you.

I would also be very grateful if you could give me a few links to sites about the card and sites that sell the cards at very good prices and delivery does not kill the bargain.

Thanks

Ó Tuama

@jassi: thank you for your reply but that doesn't really help.

game4it70

Ó Tuama wrote: »

@jassi: thank you for your reply but that doesn't really help.

Geez jassi get a life.

@ Tuama
Which Vostro 200 do you have as there are two models?
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/desktops/vostrodt_200st/pd.aspx?refid=vostrodt_200st&s=dfb&cs=28
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/desktops/vostrodt_200mt/pd.aspx?refid=vostrodt_200mt&s=dfb&cs=28
Both have low wattage PSU's so going to limit your choices of graphics card.
The Dell pc in general are a nightmare to upgrade as the non stantard layout/size they use.
Reply with which model you have and you will get some help from the guys here.

Ó Tuama

game4it70 wrote: »

Geez jassi get a life.

@ Tuama
Which Vostro 200 do you have as there are two models?
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/desktops/vostrodt_200st/pd.aspx?refid=vostrodt_200st&s=dfb&cs=28
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/desktops/vostrodt_200mt/pd.aspx?refid=vostrodt_200mt&s=dfb&cs=28
Both have low wattage PSU's so going to limit your choices of graphics card.
The Dell pc in general are a nightmare to upgrade as the non stantard layout/size they use.
Reply with which model you have and you will get some help from the guys here.

It's the Mini Tower one.

jonny72

For a decent graphics card you are gonna have to hook it up to the power unit with a cable, since your power supply unit is quite weak I think you could possibly get away with an ATI 4770 (85ish Euros) or ATI 5750 (110ish euros) both draw very low power and will be good for games

Your processor is okay, anything around 2.5 ghz core2duo can handle most modern games quite well

If your power supply is too crappy though, go with the ATI 4670.. its just about the most powerful card you can buy without having to plug it in

Ó Tuama

jonny72 wrote: »

For a decent graphics card you are gonna have to hook it up to the power unit with a cable, since your power supply unit is quite weak I think you could possibly get away with an ATI 4770 (85ish Euros) or ATI 5750 (110ish euros) both draw very low power and will be good for games

Your processor is okay, anything around 2.5 ghz core2duo can handle most modern games quite well

If your power supply is too crappy though, go with the ATI 4670.. its just about the most powerful card you can buy without having to plug it in

yeah, my decision was already half going to the ATI 4670 before, but if anyone else has any other comments, suggestions or recommendations they will be very welcome.

Now, any Idea where is the best place to buy one and at a good price...links aswell please.

game4it70

With the slim your going to need a "low profile" gfx card as far as i know.
Tbh i would not like to suggest what card to get with the 250watt psu you have.
Dell site lists an Ati 4350 as a upgrade card for your pc.
Sorry to have not been much help.

lmimmfn

GTA IV runs like junk if you dont have a quad core.

Ó Tuama

lmimmfn wrote: »

GTA IV runs like junk if you dont have a quad core.

Where does it say I have a quad core?...A bit more help then that please.

Nollog

A new psu would be worth it, they're not too expensive.
If you had a 500 watt with 6 or 8 pin pci-e power connections, you'd have a few extra options.

Ó Tuama

/\/ollog wrote: »

A new psu would be worth it, they're not too expensive.
If you had a 500 watt with 6 or 8 pin pci-e power connections, you'd have a few extra options.

Would that suit my motherboard?

jonny72

Putting in a new PSU into a dell can be quite tricky when you are doing it for the first time, make sure you read up on it well before you try.

"Intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.4GHz"

Thats your processor right there. Its a dual core.

GTA4 is unfortunately one of these new games that really likes QUAD core processors (4 processors).. at the moment you have a DUAL core processor (2 processors obviously) which actually isn't too bad for a dell.

If your PC isn't the super slim model then an ATI 4670 (from Komplett.ie) should tide you over until you save up and invest in a new PC. Your PC should be capable of playing 90% of games on medium settings with that card. GTA4 won't run that well but as I said its one of those few games that really really likes a QUAD core processor.

Please remember, your PC is a Dell, and is therefore more suited to office/web use.

Here is a chart of modern graphics cards..

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5750_iCooler_IV/30.html

The problem is, anything above an ATI 4670 will require extra power, and in your case that would most likely require a better power supply (a good one, about 45 to 60 euros) plus you'd have to fit it.

Also, you can't just buy a ultra super graphics card and PSU, because soon your processor will bottle neck it. Just think of having a Skoda and putting a Ferrari engine in it, still with the Skoda gearbox.. PC's generally work the same way.

A pure gaming PC starts at about 450/500 euros and is best specced on the 'building and upgrading' part of this boards section

Ó Tuama

any recommendations on Nvidia cards?

...or any other places that might be cheaper then Komplett.ie?

lmimmfn

Ó Tuama wrote: »

Where does it say I have a quad core?...A bit more help then that please.

nah, i just ment that you have a dual core, GTA IV needs a quad core( or AMD tri core ), it runs horribly on a dual core,you will get fluctuating FPS between min 17 and max 38 regardless of your gfx card with a dual core, change to a quad and it immediately averages 55-60. I had a dual core before( E6400@3.55Ghz ) and tried it and it was horrible, i wouldnt consider it playable, even with an E8400@4Ghz its not very good.

Ó Tuama

lmimmfn wrote: »

nah, i just ment that you have a dual core, GTA IV needs a quad core( or AMD tri core ), it runs horribly on a dual core,you will get fluctuating FPS between min 17 and max 38 regardless of your gfx card with a dual core, change to a quad and it immediately averages 55-60. I had a dual core before( E6400@3.55Ghz ) and tried it and it was horrible, i wouldnt consider it playable, even with an E8400@4Ghz its not very good.

Oh right ya, thanks...altough I don't think I have the money to upgrade to quad core at the moment, but my next computer I will have all the best gear. that is in a few years time.

Ó Tuama

Ok, I have decided to go with an ATI 4670 but now I would love some help with choseing the best Manufactuer and type of card and at a good grice.

jonny72

Ó Tuama wrote: »

Ok, I have decided to go with an ATI 4670 but now I would love some help with choseing the best Manufactuer and type of card and at a good grice.

Well check dabs.ie, elara.ie, komplett.ie, pixmania.ie

Find a 4670 (around 60 euros), just remember the 1 gig versions are generally only a few percent faster than the 512 mb version and thats only at very high resolutions, therefore get the 512 mb version.

Also its best to find a 'slim' model, some of them have big fat coollers on them and they can be harder to fit if there are other cards slotted into your PC. You can see this from the pics, or read a review of the card you plan on getting, a proper review (not a customer one)

Remember that since it is an ATI card, you need the latest drivers and you need to upgrade to the latest service pack (free download) if you are using windows XP.

If you read up on this before, it will mean a hassle free quick install with no problems.

Ó Tuama

And what Manufacturer of the 4670 would you recommend?...I heard that Sapphire were the best but then I saw another 4 types of the 4670 card with them on their site and Amazon.

Nollog

Saphire are the best.

Ó Tuama

/\/ollog wrote: »

Saphire are the best.

And witch of the Sapphire 4670 cards is the best?...Iv seen four so far but I'd say there could be more. ?

Ó Tuama

So, after looking for a Sapphire 4670 cards as recommended by members that replied to this topic I noticed that there was around 7 different types on the site...

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=270

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=269

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=206

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=205

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=204

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=184

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=181

Now I would like to know know which one is the best performing type and where I can get it for a good price too!

lmimmfn

Ó Tuama wrote: »

So, after looking for a Sapphire 4670 cards as recommended by members that replied to this topic I noticed that there was around 7 different types on the site...

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=270

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=269

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=206

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=205

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=204

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=184

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=181

Now I would like to know know which one is the best performing type and where I can get it for a good price too!

Im gonna disagree with everyone here and recommend a second hand 8800GT, will be much more powerful and they only cost 50Euro second hand if you can find one( not that hard to find i got 3 lol ), but go for the 4670 if its handier.

As for all the cards above, get the cheapest, generally theyre the same, maybe different coolers, different amounts of vram, but as long as it has 512Mb vram then youre good, i wouldnt bother with paying extra for higher clocked cards, its a 5 minute joy to do that yourself.

Ó Tuama

lmimmfn wrote: »

Im gonna disagree with everyone here and recommend a second hand 8800GT, will be much more powerful and they only cost 50Euro second hand if you can find one( not that hard to find i got 3 lol ), but go for the 4670 if its handier.

As for all the cards above, get the cheapest, generally theyre the same, maybe different coolers, different amounts of vram, but as long as it has 512Mb vram then youre good, i wouldnt bother with paying extra for higher clocked cards, its a 5 minute joy to do that yourself.

Thank you very much for you reply, I will always be open to opinions and recommendations untill I actualy buy/order a card.

I will look into the 880GT and get back here soon...

jonny72

Just remember, a 4670 is very very newbie friendly, especially in your case since you have ATI drivers already on your machine.

An 8800GT is a better card but it doesn't like weak PSU's, you have to plug it in, some 8800Gt's are long fat cards so make sure you have the space and the correct length of connector, and you would have to change all the drivers to nVidia.

lmimmfn

Ó Tuama wrote: »

Thank you very much for you reply, I will always be open to opinions and recommendations untill I actualy buy/order a card.

I will look into the 880GT and get back here soon...

no probs mate, just giving you a good alternative for your money
The recommended amps on the rails for an 8800GT is 26amps for the full system therefore youre looking at at least a 350W PSU but much better if its a 400W PSU with 85% effeciency( i.e. its effectively a 450W ), cheaper PSU's give the max Wattage that the PSU can perform at rather than sustained. Generally the 80+ effiecency PSU's give the sustainable max power.

jonny72 wrote: »

An 8800GT is a better card but it doesn't like weak PSU's, you have to plug it in, some 8800Gt's are long fat cards so make sure you have the space and the correct length of connector, and you would have to change all the drivers to nVidia.

I havnt heard about different sized 8800GT's other than if they have a different stock cooler which would make them thicker, all my 8800GTs are the same size, heres the size of the EVGA one:
height : 4.376 inches / 111.15 mm
length : 9 inches / 288.6 mm
http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/512-P3-N801-AR.pdf

doesnt give the width though but mine are around 3/4's of an inch wide

Ó Tuama

I have a 300 Watt PSU.

lmimmfn

Ó Tuama wrote: »

I have a 300 Watt PSU.

ouch, well your emuch better off with the 4670, youre PC without gfx card will use around 160W, heres a graph of estimated consumption of gfx cards - http://mark.zoomcities.com/images/gfx/GFXpowerchartbybrandgen.png
As you can see the 4670 is quite low, any card under 80W is good for your system.

Ó Tuama

lmimmfn wrote: »

ouch, well your emuch better off with the 4670, youre PC without gfx card will use around 160W, heres a graph of estimated consumption of gfx cards - http://mark.zoomcities.com/images/gfx/GFXpowerchartbybrandgen.png
As you can see the 4670 is quite low, any card under 80W is good for your system.

I just looked at the sapphiresite again and noticed that the 4670 needs 400 Watts aswell! ...do you know if it will still work or would I be better off getting another PSU?

swirlser

I would think the 4670 will still work, but you may want to double check the PSU rating first. I only glanced thru, but it seems you were basing the wattage on a link? Altho this shouldnt be a varying factor, since the model spec otherwise varied quite a bit from what you actually have and you will be cutting things close, you do need to be sure. (I wouldnt normally recommend this btw, but when we're talking about such conservative components, you dont need massive headroom)

(Should you find your PSU is lower than you thought, that does put you in a pickle Im afraid, your going to have to rethink your options completely)

If you do start getting carried away with the idea of trying to fit a new PSU and bigger GPU (which would be a headache on a dell at the best of times), your going to have to consider heat dissipation (size & power arent your only constricting factors ><). Dells are built with specific components in mind. On a typical Dell desktop there is little ventilation - performance components were never meant to be used in them.

Ó Tuama

swirlser wrote: »

I would think the 4670 will still work, but you may want to double check the PSU rating first. I only glanced thru, but it seems you were basing the wattage on a link? Altho this shouldnt be a varying factor, since the model spec otherwise varied quite a bit from what you actually have and you will be cutting things close, you do need to be sure. (I wouldnt normally recommend this btw, but when we're talking about such conservative components, you dont need massive headroom)

(Should you find your PSU is lower than you thought, that does put you in a pickle Im afraid, your going to have to rethink your options completely)

If you do start getting carried away with the idea of trying to fit a new PSU and bigger GPU (which would be a headache on a dell at the best of times), your going to have to consider heat dissipation (size & power arent your only constricting factors ><). Dells are built with specific components in mind. On a typical Dell desktop there is little ventilation - performance components were never meant to be used in them.

I know for a fack it is 300 Watts, I opened it to see and it was on the side of the PSU near the plug.

lmimmfn

Ó Tuama wrote: »

I know for a fack it is 300 Watts, I opened it to see and it was on the side of the PSU near the plug.

It'll work on your 300W, it only uses ~67W and the rest of your rig will use no more than 150W.

However PSU's degrade from the max capable sustainable power over time, but you would be extremely unlucky if it didnt work.