What is a psychologist?

G-Money

So I went to the doctor last week as I was concerned that I might be suffering from depression. We chatted for a while and he said I'm not clinically depressed but that I should probably see a psychologist to help me work on my self esteem and confidence issues.

I'm just wondering what a psychologist is and what do they do? How are they different from psychiatrists, counsellors, psychotherapists and all the other mental health professionals out there?

With my situation as it is, I'm probably not going to be able to use a psychologist that he recommended and will probably have to find one myself in Dublin.

So I'm just wanted to get a bit of information ahead of time so I don't end up going to the wrong type of specialist.

The Black Oil

Academically, a psychologist should have a couple of qualifications (at least a Masters) under their belt and ideally be registered with the PSI/BPS, etc. He or she should also have good clinical experience and training working with a good range of people on various issues, though they may choose to specialise with particular types of clients. Unlike a psychiatrist they don't have medical training and can't prescribe medication, though they may be aware of the impact of anti-depressants, for example. This page might help a little bit.

A good psychologist should be objective, allow you to bring whatever issues you wish to the table, to facilitate you to work on these, give you feedback and be open to reviewing his/her own way of working. They can also undergo additional training throughout their career. As for differences compared to counsellors or psychotherapists...I'm not sure, but my sense is one of the main differences is that psychology can be more bound in having an academic component in training, being able to digest, synthesise and produce research. Not to say they dump academic facts or material on their clients, but if necessary they can draw on theory to draw up an intervention plan.

That's a fairly waffley way of putting it.

The Black Oil

Just to add, that probably doesn't give you much of an idea of what a psychologist actually does. If you do go along you might be asked about you relationship with your parents/siblings/family and how you get along with them, what expectations you have of attending the sessions, just some background stuff, not to say talking about parents has to be an overarching theme! It's not necessarily the case that the psychologist will have any unique or magical insights into your habits, behaviours or thought patterns (sometimes people seem to think so when you say you've studied psychology..), but like a good GP they'll be experienced, patient and treat you as an individual. Might be no harm to make a few calls to get a feel for who they are and how they work.

Odysseus

The Black Oil wrote: »

Academically, a psychologist should have a couple of qualifications (at least a Masters) under their belt and ideally be registered with the PSI/BPS, etc. He or she should also have good clinical experience and training working with a good range of people on various issues, though they may choose to specialise with particular types of clients. Unlike a psychiatrist they don't have medical training and can't prescribe medication, though they may be aware of the impact of anti-depressants, for example. This page might help a little bit.

A good psychologist should be objective, allow you to bring whatever issues you wish to the table, to facilitate you to work on these, give you feedback and be open to reviewing his/her own way of working. They can also undergo additional training throughout their career. As for differences compared to counsellors or psychotherapists...I'm not sure, but my sense is one of the main differences is that psychology can be more bound in having an academic component in training, being able to digest, synthesise and produce research. Not to say they dump academic facts or material on their clients, but if necessary they can draw on theory to draw up an intervention plan.

That's a fairly waffley way of putting it.

I not having a go, as its as difficult question to answer, but lots of psychotherapists have Masters or PhDs and would do the same around interventions.

The thing is anyone from a diploma up can call themselfs a counsellor or psychotherapist. Psychology often uses what is deemed to be up o date research, whereas psychotherapists may be working with a specific set of theories. One difference I would see is a psychotherapist may work with the mind whereas psychology works with the brain in most cases in how it effects behaviour. Though this is not fully correct, but psychologists are now a statutory profession.

I'm not makimg a good job of this but I had note that many psychotherapists would have similar training and qualifications as the first part of you post.

I sure one of the clinical psychologists will be able to describe the difference better that me. Apologies Black Oil if you are one:)

The Black Oil

Nope, I'm not. I think my mentioning of a Master's a minimum requirement was just down to the fact that to progress in psychology, and to get a step closer to becoming a psychologist, you need to have something beyond the 'basic' grounding from a BA. Whilst qualifications aren't everything in therapy they're worth looking out for. Er, if that makes sense.

All of these terms can be thrown around a little loosely, sometimes by practitioners so it's a bit confusing.

G-Money

I know the doctor said that it's a psychologist I should see and not a counseller or psychiatrist. I wasn't clear on the type of person I needed to speak to so I'm glad he set me straight.

I suppose I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and go from there. I don't really want to be wasting my time and money so I wanted a bit of info ahead of time.

I don't think I can ask for recommendations on boards but is there somewhere I should look up a list of psychologists? Is there a health service list of qualified practioners or anything?

I suppose a bit like a mechanic or something, I want to be sure I'm not going to get the arm put into me for sessions and stuff that I don't need

The Black Oil

This list on the PSI website might help, but it's probably not extensive. Unless your GP knows someone or the psychologist he mentioned can recommend a colleague in Dublin? I can see that it's a little out-of-date as some of the phone prefixes for TCD contacts are wrong.

Johro

Heya Grandmaster, most G.P.'s have a list of HSE approved psychologists, some of which will work on a 'sliding scale', meaning if ya can't afford much they won't charge much, also if your GP doesn't have much of a list you can ring any GP for recommendations on psychologists. Personally, I don't understand why you couldn't see a counsellor. Psychologists and counsellors are pretty similar really though counsellors, after recognising a problem will help you work through it without the need for medication, which is always a bonus. Psychiatrists on the other hand, to me, diagnose (stick a handy label on ya), medicate (pop ya full of pills so you won't feel anything), and, in my opinion, if that counts for anything, (you don't have to take my word for it;)) are pillpushers for the big pharmaceutical companies. Most of all though, getting out and making friends dismisses the need for all of those. Good luck to ya:)

Grigzz

Hi Grandmaster,

Hope I can help provide clarity (also without offending other professionals). I am a counselling psychologist, and a number of years ago I worked as part of the psychology team for a large HSE Primary Care team. This basically meant that if you attended a G.P. and lived in a specific location you could come along for a number of sessions with a member of the psychology team. All clients (medical card holders or not) could avail of a set number of sessions for free, if referred by another member of the team. This service is available in certain parts of the country, but unfortunately not all. Other HSE area's have psychologists they recommend but the price is not always low.

I know a number of other posters have mentioned differences between counsellors/ psychotherapists/ psychologists etc., but just to give you some info on psychologists. Registered psychologists in Ireland have to have at a minimum 7 years experience in psychology (although most have much more) this includes 3 year degree (minimum) 2- 3 Years professional postgrad training (although in reality most people need 3 - 4 years experience to even get on this training) after that then the psychologist is required to work under the supervision of an experienced registered psychologist for 1-2 further years (depending on length of postgrad). All of the aforementioned must be full time. This in one way gives an indication of the level of experience of the individual your GP recommends.

As others have correctly pointed out many psychotherapists have equally long training and we do cover similar areas, so this leads on to another point - registration / accreditation with a professional body. The standards set by the major psychology/ psychotherapy bodies (PSI/BPS - psychology) IACP and others for psychotherapy are very high and ensure the experience of their full members. As previously mentioned anyone with a certificate (sometimes not even this much) in counselling can call themselves a counsellor or psychotherapist and practice, but they will not be a member of a professional body, this is something for anyone interested in availing of helping services to investigate prior to contacting a 'professional'. Unfortunately there are too many woefully unqualified people providing services to vulnerable individuals, who give all qualified helping professionals a bad name.


Most counselling and clinical psychologists are trained in various forms of psychotherapy (they usually specialise in one) and as previously mentioned follow up to date treatment methods and evidence based treatments. In addition the psychologist will also administer a number of psycho-metric screening tests when you attend first. These are used to identify areas of difficulties, the individuals self concept and also the psychologist will often use a test known as an outcome measure. This tool measures certain factors when the client presents initially and measures the change in these over time as a result of therapy. The psychologist can use this to measure improvement in the client, and also to address their own skill set, ie if clients with one particular difficulty are consistently not improving whilst most others are, then the treatment method or plan may need to be re-evaluated.


To conclude: for most difficulties there is very little difference between the services provided by experienced and well trained professionals who are regulated. The psychologist may be able to offer testing and measurement but is unlikely (if they work for HSE) to have the resources available for very lengthy therapy (20 sessions +), this is where a psychotherapist / psychologist in private practice may be of help (This is just from my experience working for a HSE service and may be very different depending on which area you are covered by)

I feel that Johro's response is a good example of the confusion and ignorance around the area of mental distress, and also highlights the need for no specific advice be given on boards. I mean the interchange of the role of the psychiatrist and psychologist, saying not using med's are a bonus and then stating that someone can overcome mental distress or ill health or the need for getting professional help by "getting out and making friends" are ignorant at best and quite dangerous at worst!

Odysseus

Cheers, I think you did an excellent job the grigzz

Johro

I feel that Johro's response is a good example of the confusion and ignorance around the area of mental distress, and also highlights the need for no specific advice be given on boards. I mean the interchange of the role of the psychiatrist and psychologist, saying not using med's are a bonus and then stating that someone can overcome mental distress or ill health or the need for getting professional help by "getting out and making friends" are ignorant at best and quite dangerous at worst![/quote] Definitely. It got the required response though. On the other hand, are you saying that getting where you need to be without med's is NOT a bonus? I'm not suggesting that someone being prescribed medication shouldn't bother to take it, but finding a solution that does not involve medication, or at least not for the long term would be infinitely preferable. Nobody would argue with a short term medical fix such as some sort of relaxant to help the process along, I just think there are an awful lot of people out there on med's for an indefinite period of time without ever being reviewed which can do pretty serious damage to internal organs. By the way, taking a herb like St Johns Wort off Irish shelves is an outrage, the only real reason for it is that it was outselling Prozac by a huge margin. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Other than that, I can't argue with what you say. My hope is only that Grandmaster finds a reputable phychologist/counsellor without it costing the earth or ending up over-prescribed.

JuliusCaesar

Johro wrote: »

Heya Grandmaster, most G.P.'s have a list of HSE approved psychologists, some of which will work on a 'sliding scale', meaning if ya can't afford much they won't charge much, also if your GP doesn't have much of a list you can ring any GP for recommendations on psychologists.

FACT: there is no such thing as "HSE approved psychologist". Pyschologists are accredited by PSI/BPS, the professional organisations for psychologists.

The HSE employs psychologists, and seeing them is FREE OF CHARGE.

Some psychologists in private practice will have sliding scales.

Johro wrote: »

Personally, I don't understand why you couldn't see a counsellor. Psychologists and counsellors are pretty similar really though counsellors, after recognising a problem will help you work through it

There's actually quite a large difference in the training of psychologists and counsellors. The minimum requirement for training for psychologists is much longer and they study all aspects of psychology as undergraduates, especially psychology of the normal, and only later go on to specialise. See some of the other posts on this subject. While psychologists would have basic training in psychophysiology and psychoneurology, they'd generally be able to work with both mind & brain....I don't think many people can draw a firm line between one and the other, or even define exactly how they interact!

G-Money

I went to my GP in the north and he suggested a psychologist, and not one of the other types of professionals.

He would normally have referred me to the psychology unit in the local health service up home but it sounded like there was going to be a long waiting list and to be honest, it was going to be quite inconvenient to travel home and probably take time off work.

So can I go to a psychologist for free on the HSE? I have VHI cover as well if that helps. I'm not sure of everything it covers though.

I have to be honest, I'm hoping to avoid spending a load of money. I really need to save for a variety of reasons and I can't really afford to be forking out hundreds of euro a month on sessions with someone.

At the same time, I need to get my head sorted out. But half of me wonders can I just do that myself as I'm going to the gym and losing weight which is a big factor in why I'm in this situation to begin with.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Johro

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

FACT: there is no such thing as "HSE approved psychologist". Pyschologists are accredited by PSI/BPS, the professional organisations for psychologists.

The HSE employs psychologists, and seeing them is FREE OF CHARGE.

Some psychologists in private practice will have sliding scales.



There's actually quite a large difference in the training of psychologists and counsellors. The minimum requirement for training for psychologists is much longer and they study all aspects of psychology as undergraduates, especially psychology of the normal, and only later go on to specialise. See some of the other posts on this subject. While psychologists would have basic training in psychophysiology and psychoneurology, they'd generally be able to work with both mind & brain....I don't think many people can draw a firm line between one and the other, or even define exactly how they interact!

Oh dear.. So shoot me. Granted, HSE 'approved' pshychologists may have been badly put but the gist of my post was 'your GP should be able to provide you with a list, and could most likely recommend one.' Facetious.. Also, my GP told me some on this list work on a sliding scale. I do recognise the differences between psychologists and counsellors, I was referring on their ability to help, i.e. they both can.

Odysseus

Johro wrote: »

Oh dear.. So shoot me. Granted, HSE 'approved' pshychologists may have been badly put but the gist of my post was 'your GP should be able to provide you with a list, and could most likely recommend one.' Facetious.. Also, my GP told me some on this list work on a sliding scale. I do recognise the differences between psychologists and counsellors, I was referring on their ability to help, i.e. they both can.

You have clearly read How to win friends and influence people. All HSE staff are paid by the HSE so if you go to a HSE facility there will never be a charge. If you GP gave you a list of people who work on a sliding scale that is either an organisation or individual charging privately.

Look you should know that the small things can be quite significant in this area. Its an area where words do count, and the devil is in the detail. Come on this isn't after hours, we don't recommend shootings;)

Johro

Odysseus wrote: »

You have clearly read How to win friends and influence people. All HSE staff are paid by the HSE so if you go to a HSE facility there will never be a charge. If you GP gave you a list of people who work on a sliding scale that is either an organisation or individual charging privately.

Look you should know that the small things can be quite significant in this area. Its an area where words do count, and the devil is in the detail. Come on this isn't after hours, we don't recommend shootings;)

'How to lose friends and alienate people' is a better read.:D I take your point though. Nice to know you don't recommend shootings. Got a bit carried away there. Must be the meds.:rolleyes: