The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

branie

Anyone here get it for Christmas? I did. I havent started reading yet, but it looks very interesting

rccaulfield

Its class- thread here!- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055670799&highlight=greatest

seamus

Easons had it on 3 for 2, so I bought 2 books as presents and kept the Dawkins one for myself

Looking forward to it.

Flamed Diving

It bored me, so I stopped reading about two chapters in.

liamw

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It bored me, so I stopped reading about two chapters in.

Apparently if you've read books like The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype it is too basic... would that be accurate?

Flamed Diving

liamw wrote: »

Apparently if you've read books like The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype it is too basic... would that be accurate?

Yeah, it's like reading Ann & Barry.

Galvasean

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Yeah, it's like reading Ann & Barry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0w_TrXzpqo

Got it for Xmas. Havent read Selfish Gene et all, so maybey I'll enjoy it. Might work up an appetite for more. That said I've read Almost Like A whale. How does it compare to that?

Coriolanus

Got it for Christmas so I'll give it a go. I've read the Selfish Gene though, so hope it's not too basic.

iUseVi

A little off topic but while we are talking about such books I highly recommend "Finding Darwin's God" by Kenneth R. Miller. Although I disagree with his conclusion (God exists) it actually put me on the path towards atheism.

I haven't looked into the new Dawkins book, anyone here read the above I mentioned? Is it similar in content?

liamw

iUseVi wrote: »

I highly recommend "Finding Darwin's God" by Kenneth R. Miller. Although I disagree with his conclusion (God exists) it actually put me on the path towards atheism.

Care to elaborate a little? I'd be interested to hear your take on it

iUseVi

liamw wrote: »

Care to elaborate a little? I'd be interested to hear your take on it

Well when I started reading the book I was a creationist, when I put it down I was not. It was that persuasive. Then I realised that my church, family and friends were were telling me that creationism was 100% fact and it could not be doubted. What else did they think was 100% fact? The existence of god. So I started to think about this too and over the course of a few weeks (quite a short time) I went from a evangelical, creationist christian to a staunch atheist.

EDIT: I misread what you wanted I haven't really talked about the book. Basically it addresses every concern in turn in a very simple way but this was perfect for me. I was home schooled due to my parents religious beliefs, I didn't know a thing about evolution so simple was good.

Dades

iUseVi wrote: »

Well when I started reading the book I was a creationist, when I put it down I was not. It was that persuasive. Then I realised that my church, family and friends were were telling me that creationism was 100% fact and it could not be doubted. What else did they think was 100% fact? The existence of god. So I started to think about this too and over the course of a few weeks (quite a short time) I went from a evangelical, creationist christian to a staunch atheist.

How has that gone down with your family and friends?

iUseVi

Dades wrote: »

How has that gone down with your family and friends?

Ohh very good question. Short answer - not good. Longer answer - not at all good. My religious friends that I still talk to on occasion think that I'm temporarily ill and that I will soon recover from my madness, even though its been about 3 years. They are "praying for me". Yeah. Ok...

My brother is still very religious, we clash sometimes but he knows better than to try and reconvert me. My parents know that I don't go to church anymore, but I'm too cowardly to use the word atheist, I simply say I have doubts about their beliefs. To evangelicals the word atheist does not simply mean lack of a belief in god. To them it basically means "in league with devil". My mother saw a copy of "the God Delusion" once (not mine) and couldn't even bring herself to touch the cover, she wanted to burn it. She actually thought it was satanic, no messing.

Umm that should give you a clue to the environment I grew up in anyway.

MrPudding

iUseVi wrote: »

Ohh very good question. Short answer - not good. Longer answer - not at all good. My religious friends that I still talk to on occasion think that I'm temporarily ill and that I will soon recover from my madness, even though its been about 3 years. They are "praying for me". Yeah. Ok...

My brother is still very religious, we clash sometimes but he knows better than to try and reconvert me. My parents know that I don't go to church anymore, but I'm too cowardly to use the word atheist, I simply say I have doubts about their beliefs. To evangelicals the word atheist does not simply mean lack of a belief in god. To them it basically means "in league with devil". My mother saw a copy of "the God Delusion" once (not mine) and couldn't even bring herself to touch the cover, she wanted to burn it. She actually thought it was satanic, no messing.

Umm that should give you a clue to the environment I grew up in anyway.

Good luck. You have my sympathy. It must be very difficult.

MrP

iUseVi

MrPudding wrote: »

Good luck. You have my sympathy. It must be very difficult.

MrP

Thanks. It was very difficult at the time, I was a teen and living with my parents. It took a while to pluck up the courage to say "I'm not going to church anymore" - I had a fear I would be kicked out onto the street but fortunately that didn't happen. Anyway a few years later and all is fine and dandy.

liamw

iUseVi wrote: »

Thanks. It was very difficult at the time, I was a teen and living with my parents. It took a while to pluck up the courage to say "I'm not going to church anymore" - I had a fear I would be kicked out onto the street but fortunately that didn't happen. Anyway a few years later and all is fine and dandy.

I commend you. Where are you from btw? Also, do they know your on the devil's forums? :pac:

iUseVi

liamw wrote: »

I commend you. Where are you from btw? Also, do they know your on the devil's forums? :pac:

I'm from Dublin. Since I don't live with my parents anymore its not a problem :P

KeithAFC

I fully agree with Dawkins views on evolution etc. It all makes sense and is right. It's just i don't see the need to sell books on it etc making money from it. I think most people know evolution is real.

Flamed Diving

KeithAFC wrote: »

I fully agree with Dawkins views on evolution etc. It all makes sense and is right. It's just i don't see the need to sell books on it etc making money from it. I think most people know evolution is real.

Yeah, I don't understand why Dawkins wants to make money, either. It's so weird.

RE: last line



http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx

KeithAFC

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Yeah, I don't understand why Dawkins wants to make money, either. It's so weird.

RE: last line



http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx

I'v no problem with anyone making money but for me it's just obvious and deep down, people know evolution is real. Even religious people who believe in god know evolution is real.

I'd say a lot of people who say they don't believe in it are just saying that to keep face with the people who believe along the same lines as them.

Sam Vimes

KeithAFC wrote: »

I'v no problem with anyone making money but for me it's just obvious and deep down, people know evolution is real. Even religious people who believe in god know evolution is real.

I'd say a lot of people who say they don't believe in it are just saying that to keep face with the people who believe along the same lines as them.

A 1,294 page thread begs to differ:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=316566

And you might want to take a look here:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

What you're saying is exactly what they say about us, that deep down we know god is real and evolution is false but our pride or whatever stops us from admitting it

Flamed Diving

KeithAFC wrote: »

I'd say a lot of people who say they don't believe in it are just saying that to keep face with the people who believe along the same lines as them.

Funny, the religious use a similar argument against A&As.

Flamed Diving

Ah, you beat me to it. Mine was more eloquent, though.

dvpower

iUseVi wrote: »

Well when I started reading the book I was a creationist, when I put it down I was not. It was that persuasive.

I bet the Christians wish they had a book that was that powerful.

*gets coat*

KeithAFC

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Funny, the religious use a similar argument against A&As.

Im Agnostic but they can't be serious lol.

Either way, what can you do. They will always believe what they believe. Thats their right. Matter how odd it is.

iUseVi

dvpower wrote: »

I bet the Christians wish they had a book that was that powerful.

*gets coat*

This book was written by a christian. Ironic eh.

Galvasean

iUseVi wrote: »

Ohh very good question. Short answer - not good. Longer answer - not at all good. My religious friends that I still talk to on occasion think that I'm temporarily ill and that I will soon recover from my madness, even though its been about 3 years. They are "praying for me". Yeah. Ok...

My brother is still very religious, we clash sometimes but he knows better than to try and reconvert me. My parents know that I don't go to church anymore, but I'm too cowardly to use the word atheist, I simply say I have doubts about their beliefs. To evangelicals the word atheist does not simply mean lack of a belief in god. To them it basically means "in league with devil". My mother saw a copy of "the God Delusion" once (not mine) and couldn't even bring herself to touch the cover, she wanted to burn it. She actually thought it was satanic, no messing.

Umm that should give you a clue to the environment I grew up in anyway.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Got it for Christmas. Liking it. Found the start a bit boring but it got good soonafter.

It's not quite what I expected. I thoguht it would be much more easy to read. Find its more like the selfish gene. Fine for me but would worry it might put a lot of people off early.

Gives some nice examples of evolution we can see happening in our lifetime. Experiments on shoals of guppies evolving major differences in their colour/scale patterns depending on predators in the water/stoens on the bottom. Also of how a lizard species which is brought to a new island evolves major differences in its skull/jaw to allow a higher proportion of vegetation in its diet in only around 30 years.

Agonist

I'd like to see a discussion about this book. When the previous thread was active most people hadn't finished the book so I'll take it up here.

I thought the illustrations and diagrams were wonderful and I learnt loads from it. With the subtitle, the evidence for evolution, I expected much of it to be preaching to the converted with me and so it was. However, it was great to get concise information on radioactive clocks and other topics. Stuff I might mention is passing when discussing different areas of science, not realising how unclear I was on the detail behind them.

The section about how local rules can lead to amazingly designed-looking structures is excellent. I was interested in that side of things, how the smallest and most basic components of a living organism are formed. It really gave me a place to work from when imagining how the whole thing took off and developed. I'll always remember the word 'invaginate' now.

I was very interested in the piece about the studies of e.coli. The discoveries there are a huge breakthrough in seeing how so-called irreducibly complex things can arise.

I winced whenever he belittled believers in creationism. I prefer to see scientific information presented as our best understanding of what's currently known, not used to score points against other people. To me it jars a little and undermines the credibility of the science a bit, because all facts can be bent to make a point when you have an agenda.

I had a problem with the figures he cites in the appendix showing the percentage of creationists in the population. He justifies the book by saying there's a terrifying trend towards antiscience being taught as science. His book needed to be written and it's a great tool for use when arguing with creationists (of which I know a grand total of two, some local Jehovah's Witnesses). The powerful but crazy guys in the US have to be stopped trying to teach lies to children and hopefully this book will help to lessen their power.

However, the answers to the question, did the earliest humans live at the same time as the dinosaurs? don't tell us much except about the ignorance of the population. If I wasn't very bright, hadn't read much about anthropology and was busy working, rearing a family and enjoying myself etc. I expect that's a question I would never have asked myself. It's ok not to know much about the sciences. The general public don't know much history either, or have forgotton it. It's not reasonable to label everyone who looked blankly at the surveyor and said "Whatever" as a fundamentalist or creationist.

Likewise, the more relevant questions, Did god create the world about 10,000 years ago just as it is today? People will repeat what they half remember being told in primary school and which hasn't crossed their mind since and they don't care and it makes no difference to you or me or priests or fundies. Their unformed opinions don't matter.

So, Dawkins has got his teeth into creationists and isn't going to let go. I think he has far more to offer than producing argument after argument proving a small bunch of nutters wrong. One book is enough. I hope his next book is moving in a totally different direction because I'm getting bored now.

To summarise - Great book, highly recommended but I have a few quibbles with it.

Agonist

I'll just add that something I'd love to see Dawkins take up next is the origins of belief in the supernatural from an evolutionary perspective. I haven't read half enough about this and I don't see enough focus on it.

It could tell us so much about how beneficial belief is, in social cohesion, control, morality etc. Also how redundant it has become as our society has changed in the last couple of thousand years and the negative consequences of our inherited cedulity.

If anyone has book recommendatons for me I'd be delighted.

liamw

Agonist, if you haven't seen it this video is great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

Daftendirekt

I thought it was a great read.

I'd read The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker, and considered myself to be fairly well up on the mechanics of evolution already. This book taught me a lot of what I didn't realise I didn't know (if you get my drift). I didn't appreciate just how much evidence there is for evolution.

I mean, I knew a bit about radiometric dating and the E. coli experiments already but I was pretty gobsmacked to see how much more there is. The sections on bird behaviour, Russian silver foxes and guppy fish were particularly fascinating.

Definitely worth checking out.