Removing The ABS Fuse For Better Brakeing On Ice.

Saab Ed

Im sure the responses will be divided here about this but in snow , slush and ice I remove the ABS fuse from the fuse board thus disabling the ABS itself. This causes the wheels to lock up ( very quickly on Ice ) but it makes the car much more predictable and controlable on very slippery surffaces IMO. And because the ABS is'nt kicking in you wont get the feeling of the car running on for ever with the brake pedal shuddering under your foot as the car searches for grip that just is'nt there. On ice the difference is next to none because you just have to approach your stopping point much slower but on slush and snow the difference is huge, you can actually stop quicker and can control the car better. I suppose its not to be advised to a driver whos nervous in the first place but you could try it to see how it feels in an iced over car park or similar, just to see how it feels. Oh and make sure the car park is empty

Berty

Advancements in Car Safety and Control were all designed to assist people who do not know how to control their cars.

If you do then you do not need all of these abilities. Sure some manufactuers charge you extra for ESP but ABS is something that can be controlled by yourself.

ianobrien

How would the insurance react if you were in an accident in a car that had the ABS disabled? I imagine not well as a safety device in the car was disabled.

And for it making the car more predictable and controllable, if the wheels are locked, you've no braking and steering. How is having no steering making the car more controllable?

Early ABS could be outperformed on snow/ice by skilled drivers, but modern ABS systems are well able to cope. If they weren't, would they be fitted to cars in Scandinavia and Alpine regions?

Anan1

Disabling the ABS will also disable ESP, no? I'd also be worried about the response of your insurance company if you did crash with the ABS disabled. From memory, the ABS in older Audis could be switched off via a switch.

peasant

On ice it makes no difference if your car has ABS or not, you simply keep going until you run out of momentum or road. On wet or dry roads, ABS has the clear advantage. But on loose gravel, slush or fresh snow, I'd rather have no ABS. Without ABS the locked wheels dig through the slippery surface and make contact with the solid ground underneath, stopping you eventually whereas ABS just keeps on rollin', rollin', rollin'.

I'll never forget my first ever experience with an ABS car in freshly fallen snow ...just kept on driving past my turn-off for yards and yards ...a turn-off I would have easily made in a non ABS car.

corktina

ABS non ABS, it doesnt matter....just try not to use the brakes at all if you can help it....slow down really early , keep the wheels rolling and hope ....

mickdw

Loose snow driving would be better without the abs but tbh I would go the route of trying to put some more grip into the car (winter tyres etc) instead of disabling the abs.

Anan1

Remember also that cadence braking is much easier when you're doing it for fun than when you're caught off-guard.

tommmy1979

I'm.. rwd, no abs, no esp.. nice and gentle driving has kept me between the ditches so far... i would like a little more tread on my rear tyres, although i'm not sure how much difference that would make on black ice

argosy2006

if the brake pedal is shuddering on ice then ur pressing it to hard in first place,,you would be locking up the brakes if it had no abs in that case,,
why are u locking up brakes on ice? whole idea is to not lock up the brakes,,if your locking up brakes on ice then your allowing whole weight of car to push you along further and further until u stop or hit something,

AugustusMaximus

The whole point of braking on ice is that you can't brake harder than would create a force upon which the tyres would lose grip with the road surface.

You could easily lose grip with the road surface without locking the tyres for instance.

Going down through the gears is one option. However, if you press the brakes and slow down at a similar rate at what you would have decelerated if you had gone down through the gears then it makes zero difference.

unkel

argosy2006 wrote: »

if the brake pedal is shuddering on ice then ur pressing it to hard in first place,,you would be locking up the brakes if it had no abs in that case,,
why are u locking up brakes on ice? whole idea is to not lock up the brakes,,if your locking up brakes on ice then your allowing whole weight of car to push you along further and further until u stop or hit something,

+1

What's the point of disabling the ABS system?

kazul

Why anybody would want to disable their ABS at any stage is beyond me
You want to deliberately have your brakes lock up on ice/snow so you can brake better?
Do you know how ABS works?

It's like the Italian argument for not wearing a seatbelt, i.e. people wearing seatbelts are expecting to crash.

The worst thing is that some poor fool might read and follow your "advice" :mad:

pajo1981

You ABS system will apply maximum breaks without locking your wheels far better and more quickly than you will be able to do - don't switch it off.

The argument that a locked wheel will push away ice to reveal a better surface below is total BS.

peasant

pajo1981 wrote: »

The argument that a locked wheel will push away ice to reveal a better surface below is total BS.

correct, as far as ice is concerned.
different story on gravel, slush or fresh snow (with no ice underneath)

ok ..the following video is on gravel and on a motorbike ...but you get the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JhenlQlWuA

1st run with ABS
2nd run no ABS, rear brake only
3rd run no ABS both brakes

ABS is a great invention ..but it can't work miracles on all surfaces...especially not on those where you have a slippery, penetrable medium on top of a hard surface

I still wouldn't advise anyone to pull the ABS fuse though. These days so many things can and may be controlled by the ABS sensors, you're in all likelyhood making things a lot worse by disabling them.

That abs on bikes on gravel does not apply. How many times have you driven your car on loose gravel with knobbly tyres? Knobblies of course would dig in the gravel and help you to slow down.

On 99% of situations having abs on road is better than not having one. Even on that 1 percent you can control the car while braking so whatever you do don't disable it.

Cadence braking with abs does not apply. The best way to slow down with antilocks is to just jam on the brakes and steer around the object. You have to slam on the pedal to make sure the rear brakes work at max too.

I cannot understand wanting to disable the abs either. I have been singing its praises during the cold spell. Knowing you can brake and keep control of the car is brilliant. When the wheels lock up on the ice its very unpredictable what the car will do and I have found the abs to give a very predictable reaction. We have four cars in my house, only one which does not have abs and that was left sitting for a lot of the last week as my sister had a few dodgy moments due to lack of abs.

Saab Ed

kazul wrote: »

Why anybody would want to disable their ABS at any stage is beyond me
You want to deliberately have your brakes lock up on ice/snow so you can brake better?
Do you know how ABS works?


The worst thing is that some poor fool might read and follow your "advice"
:mad:

Just to say that I wasnt giving advice , I was just talking about my own Experience. An secondly you ask the question of me " do I know how ABS works " and yet in the same sentence question why one might want their wheels to lock up on snow. Lets just say that if you really did understand how ABS works then you would never have asked the question.

These videos might help you and your ignorance on the subject

The first is with no ABS....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNi4JVdniTs&feature=related

and the second with ABS....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrJEO1NO23Y&feature=related

Not exactly NCAP but a very simple demo to help you understand.;)

10-10-20

ABS is a system designed to reduce the *loss of control* experienced when a vehicle skids due to excessive braking force on a wet or dry road surface. (think 'elk test')
ABS alone is not a method to reduce the stopping distance.

In a situation where ABS is enabled and a vehicle skids on a icy surface, ABS will attempt to pulse the brakes to enable directional control during the skid. On a normal road surface, this will cause a short return of traction, followed by a subsequent loss and so forth. On an icy surface, as the resistance between the wheel and the ground is almost nill, the system is largely ineffective.

ABS can encourage the driver to under-compensate during a skid as the assumption will be made that the automation will be better at handling the situation than any further manual intervention.

The removal of ABS ('the automation') will cause the driver to maintain better braking practices in snow and ice and will encourage 'reactive' braking instead of over-application. The driver will learn to detect the loss of traction, react suitably by reducing the brake peddle pressure and then reapply the pressure, and so forth. This is an element of cadence braking.
It may also improve control of a vehicle as the unpredictability of the skid can be reduced as the wheel no longer judders between a complete lock and a partial skid.

It's also worth mentioning that a locked wheel can be more effective than an ABS controlled wheel in snow (not ice) as the build-up of snot in the front of the wheel will act to increase the resistance (snow-plough effect). Where ABS is enabled, this build-up of snow will clear as the wheel starts spinning again.

The removal of ABS where the circumstances justify it, would be considered advantageous to the minority of drivers, but would be considered as an unauthorised modification to the braking system by the powers that be.

Personally, I'm going to pop my fuse out if the snow starts settling, but if you're used to the feel of the ABS cutting in while driving normally, you possibly should remain indoors...

kazul

I drove to Armagh on Christas Day, then the following day cross-country through Monaghan and rural Cavan and Meath. Conditions were a mixture of packed snow, ice, slush and black ice in the worst places. Didn't have the ABS cut in once but it was there if/when needed.
These safety devices give a certain level of re-assurance but are no replacement for sensible driving for the conditions.
I am not ignorant of how ABS works but still would strongly recommend that nobody pull their fuse "to see what happens", the results could be catastrophic. Other people use the roads too you know.
You'd be better off to do an advanced driving/skid control course.

And your thread title refers specifically to better brakeing, sic, on ice not snow.

Saab Ed

kazul wrote: »

And your thread title refers specifically to better brakeing, sic, on ice not snow.

Is all about having a chat not an argument. The title of my original thread doesnt read " I advice you to pull out the ABS fuse " . Some people might have been interested to hear what I had to say, thats kinda what boards is all about. Anyway it might be a confidence thing with yourself or although you claim to understand how ABS works there still might be a little bit to learn on the subject , there is no doubt that ( and maybe its just my driving style or ability ) on snow and slush I personally find no ABS an advantage. Also approaching a junction on an incline thats icy I prefer to rely on my own ability and feel for a car to bring it to a halt rather than let the car control my braking to the point were the car refuses to stop at all.