What happens at the end of the Pharmacy Pre-Reg/Internship?

ksj1526

After pharmacy graduates finish the one year pre-reg internship, could they continue their practice-training when prepare the license exam? Or they has to stay at home before passing the license exam? I mean, could they do any pharma related work before they get license?

angeldelight

ksj1526 wrote: »

After pharmacy graduates finish the one year pre-reg internship, could they continue their practice-training when prepare the license exam? Or they has to stay at home before passing the license exam? I mean, could they do any pharma related work before they get license?

They could stay on working the place they did their pre-reg if their employer asked them. However it would only be working as counter staff/dispensary assistant i.e. they couldn't work as a pharmacist. For example I finished my pre-reg at the end of September, "professional registration exam" as it's now called was on the 2nd November, I got the results on the 1st December or so and went on the register 16th December so the first day I could actually work as a pharmacist was 16th Dec.

locum-motion

(Mod note:
I moved this to its own new thread as I reckoned it deserved it! Also, it was a little off topic where it had been posted.)

Angeldelight is correct. Pharmacy interns in Ireland are left in a horrible kind of limbo in Ireland for the guts of half a year.

In the UK, most of my classmates and I started our pre-reg years on the same day, 50 weeks before the scheduled date of the exam. (The pre-reg trainee and tutor were allowed to chose the exact date, but effectively there was a window of about 6 weeks or so. Most chose the same date)
Finished week 50 on friday evening, did exam saturday morning, and waited 2 weeks for the results.
Then I finished week 52 on friday evening (actually left a bit early and went to the pub!), and on the saturday morning I was a registered pharmacist. That was the 6th of July.

Big contrast to Angel's 16th of December.

ksj1526

locum-motion wrote: »

(Mod note:
I moved this to its own new thread as I reckoned it deserved it! Also, it was a little off topic where it had been posted.)

Angeldelight is correct. Pharmacy interns in Ireland are left in a horrible kind of limbo in Ireland for the guts of half a year.

In the UK, most of my classmates and I started our pre-reg years on the same day, 50 weeks before the scheduled date of the exam. (The pre-reg trainee and tutor were allowed to chose the exact date, but effectively there was a window of about 6 weeks or so. Most chose the same date)
Finished week 50 on friday evening, did exam saturday morning, and waited 2 weeks for the results.
Then I finished week 52 on friday evening (actually left a bit early and went to the pub!), and on the saturday morning I was a registered pharmacist. That was the 6th of July.

Big contrast to Angel's 16th of December.

Thank you for your regard of this topic. What do you want to express by "Pharmacy interns in Ireland are left in a horrible kind of limbo in Ireland for the guts of half a year"?

ksj1526

angeldelight wrote: »

They could stay on working the place they did their pre-reg if their employer asked them. However it would only be working as counter staff/dispensary assistant i.e. they couldn't work as a pharmacist. For example I finished my pre-reg at the end of September, "professional registration exam" as it's now called was on the 2nd November, I got the results on the 1st December or so and went on the register 16th December so the first day I could actually work as a pharmacist was 16th Dec.

Where could I find the schedule of Exam days? and further description about the exam?

Thanks!

angeldelight

There's some information on www.pharmaceuticalsociety.ie but not a lot. They only hold the exam twice a year so if you were to fail in November you couldn't repeat until May. It's always the first week of November and first week in May.

As for the acutal exam, up until this year anyway (I don't know if it's changed)

Part 1 Section 1 covers the Medicinal Products (Prescription & Control of Supply) Regs and also the Misuse of Drugs Regulations

Part 1 Section 2 covers all the other pharmacy legislation i.e. Pharmacy Act 2007, Poisons Act, Medicinal Products (Wholesale), Med Prods (advertising), Med Prods (manufacturing), med prods (labelling), IMB Act, Veterinary Regs, the PSI Regulations e.g. regulation of retail pharmacy businesses... some others I'm sure I'm forgetting

Part 2 is the PSI Code of Conduct for pharmacists and the Pharmacy Practice Guidance Manual

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten stuff though. You should give the education dept of the pharmaceutical society a call if you've any other questions - they're quite good if they're not busy

locum-motion

ksj1526 wrote: »

Thank you for your regard of this topic. What do you want to express by "Pharmacy interns in Ireland are left in a horrible kind of limbo in Ireland for the guts of half a year"?

I'm sorry, I thought I was quite clear, but I'll try again.

The academic year finishes in late May/early June.

In the UK, graduates can do their 52 weeks training and be registered in early July, about 13 months after finishing Uni.

In Ireland, the earliest that graduates can register is early/mid december, over 18 months after finishing Uni. In that 18 months, they have to do 52 weeks on the job training.

For the remaining 6 months, they are neither a student, nor an on-the-job trainee, nor a qualified pharmacist.

They can't get employment as a pharmacist.

They're unlikely to be kept on in the pharmacy where they trained, as they pharmacy will probably have taken the following year's trainee on already and won't want to pay two trainees salaries.

They can't claim the dole as they won't have paid enough PRSI in the relevant year (because they would have been in their 4th year of Uni).

As Angeldelight said, they might get work in a pharmacy but it would essentially be a counter assistant's job.

So, that's what I mean when I say they are in limbo.

If it was me, and I was doing it all again now, I'd take out a big loan (based on expected future earnings, although it has to be said that they're not as good as they were before) and just bugger off and travel the world for the 6 months. There's feck all else you can do.

If the PSI would just schedule the exam in June like the RPSGB does, this problem wouldn't arise.

locum-motion

ksj1526 wrote: »

After pharmacy graduates finish the one year pre-reg internship, could they continue their practice-training when prepare the license exam? Or they has to stay at home before passing the license exam? I mean, could they do any pharma related work before they get license?

I find your posts intriguing.

• You posted in Dental Issues that you're finishing up a MSc in Biotechnology and would like to become a dental technician or dental assistant.
• You posted here asking about what happens after finishing a pharmacy pre-reg.
• And you posted in Health Sciences Education asking if a pharmacist can get in to a Doctor of Medicine program.

It seems a shame that having already done a BEng and most of an MSc you seem to be unsure about what you want to do. I wish you luck in whatever you end up in, but you should know that:

1. You're probably overqualified to be a dental assistant (as someone else already told you on the Dental forum).
2. If you want to do an MD degree, you need to do an undergraduate or graduate-entry medical degree (MB ChB or equivalent) first, not become a Pharmacist.
3. If you want to do the Pharmacy Intern programme, you need to have a BSc (Pharm), MPharm or equivalent first.

I would suggest that you need to decide which profession you want to do first, and then think about what further post-graduate study might give you that would help you in that profession.
If Medicine is what you want to do, go for it. Going to Medicine via Pharmacy is not a route I would recommend for you. You'd spend 4 years doing a degree that, in the end, wouldn't entitle you to many (or perhaps any) exemptions in a Medical degree programme.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide.

ksj1526

locum-motion wrote: »

I find your posts intriguing.

• You posted in Dental Issues that you're finishing up a MSc in Biotechnology and would like to become a dental technician or dental assistant.
• You posted here asking about what happens after finishing a pharmacy pre-reg.
• And you posted in Health Sciences Education asking if a pharmacist can get in to a Doctor of Medicine program.

It seems a shame that having already done a BEng and most of an MSc you seem to be unsure about what you want to do. I wish you luck in whatever you end up in, but you should know that:

1. You're probably overqualified to be a dental assistant (as someone else already told you on the Dental forum).
2. If you want to do an MD degree, you need to do an undergraduate or graduate-entry medical degree (MB ChB or equivalent) first, not become a Pharmacist.
3. If you want to do the Pharmacy Intern programme, you need to have a BSc (Pharm), MPharm or equivalent first.

I would suggest that you need to decide which profession you want to do first, and then think about what further post-graduate study might give you that would help you in that profession.
If Medicine is what you want to do, go for it. Going to Medicine via Pharmacy is not a route I would recommend for you. You'd spend 4 years doing a degree that, in the end, wouldn't entitle you to many (or perhaps any) exemptions in a Medical degree programme.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide.

I trust you have already know I am a non_EEA and hope you could understand it is really hard for non_EEA survive in the state becuase of horrible restrictions. Here are some examples:
1. Insane cost of non_EEA fees:
http://www.tcd.ie/Treasurers_Office/fees/fees_coursefees.php
I can't paid the crazy price for BChDent, and the same as MBBChBAO. BNursing have stopped recruit non_EEA candidates becuase it is really easy to get a job for nurses. MB Graduate entry never recruit non_EEA candidates or universities couldn't get one year more fees. And all non-EEA students are NOT eligible for ALL part-time programmes.

2. Visa
All non-EEA residents must register in the state ANNUALLY. Normally only: (1) students of full time programmes; (2) full time employees (include interships) of certain careers; may be granted.

So my broad interests and pre-qualifications could ONLY provide me more options. However, it DOESN'T mean all those options are PRACTICAL for me JUST BECAUSE MY RESIDENCY IS NON-EEA: As mentioned above there is a "window period" between the end of intern(assume it is Oct 31st) and registrating as pharmacist (assume licence exam could be passed just by one time), and how could I state here eligibly to attend the exam and pharm. soc. registration after the one year visa for intern expiring (it will be the last day of internship Oct 31st, no more one day)? Apply another full time programme? It is too late. Continue to work on the placement? If my job is Assistant PHARMACIST then it is fine, but if it is Seller or COUNTER Assistant then you won't get visa - it is "administration career". Can't get a eligble full time job or full time programme for study? Leave before Oct 31st or you can't never enter Ireland and entire EEA any more. Leave first and apply another visa? It will cost AT LEAST 3 months to get it, and you could only stay here NO MORE THAN 3 MONTHS. Give up? Do you think it is acceptable after you paid so much cost, time and energy?

You may say choice BDentTech (ORDINARY degree) then. Yes there is no licence exam, but will BDentTech confered by TCD allow you to register in XXsociety Ireland /HSE or somewhere? Could you practice directly after you get the degree? Is BDentTech (ORDINARY degree) from TCD recognized in EEA, USA, CA, AU and NZ as well as Irish BPharmacy degree? BDentTech in NZ is an honour programme with consequent Master and Doctor programmes. Does TCD or UCC offer any consequent Master and Doctor programmes for BDentTech graduates? Will the dental technicians' job be a full time one and offer you a salary over 30k per year (it is the criteria to get work visa for clinical careers)? Newspaper this year said many Irishes had already go to other EEA states for dentistry becuase Irish dentistry was too expensive. Yes you are right globally Dental science and dental technology rely heavily on biomaterials science, and biomaterial is my undergraduate dissertation so I already met Dental school and hospital UCC last Jan but they were quite conservative for dental technology creation. I also contacted with Dublin Dental school and hospital TCD but they NEVER returned to me. And also there is few R&D here right? Then how could I get a job for "dental technology improvement" in industry, or somewhere except clinical lab? And is there any company produces dental facilities like brace, fillings, dental materials etc. in this country?

So I believe you could understand why I post variant topics - I have to try my best to figure out all menace before I make the choice. I don't hope several years later I couldn't be clinical professional just because some objective barriers, like couldn't attend licence exam because of my residency etc.

locum-motion

ksj1526 wrote: »

...
2. Visa
All non-EEA residents must register in the state ANNUALLY. Normally only: (1) students of full time programmes; (2) full time employees (include interships) of certain careers; may be granted.
...

OK, I see now why you're asking.
If you do decide to do pharmacy, I think it would be fairly unlikely that you would be kicked out of the country during that 'limbo' period. However, I cannot give you any kind of guarantee of that, and I think you would actually be better talking to a lawyer with experience in immigration issues.

ksj1526

locum-motion wrote: »

OK, I see now why you're asking.
If you do decide to do pharmacy, I think it would be fairly unlikely that you would be kicked out of the country during that 'limbo' period. However, I cannot give you any kind of guarantee of that, and I think you would actually be better talking to a lawyer with experience in immigration issues.

Thank you - you know it is really painful sometimes you have to give up something just because the circumstance, but I still have to abandon my wish if I have to.

And any lawyer in Cork or Dublin you recommend? I haven't stay long here. You could send me a private message or contact with me via my email.

ksj1526

angeldelight wrote: »

There's some information on www.pharmaceuticalsociety.ie but not a lot. They only hold the exam twice a year so if you were to fail in November you couldn't repeat until May. It's always the first week of November and first week in May.

As for the acutal exam, up until this year anyway (I don't know if it's changed)

Part 1 Section 1 covers the Medicinal Products (Prescription & Control of Supply) Regs and also the Misuse of Drugs Regulations

Part 1 Section 2 covers all the other pharmacy legislation i.e. Pharmacy Act 2007, Poisons Act, Medicinal Products (Wholesale), Med Prods (advertising), Med Prods (manufacturing), med prods (labelling), IMB Act, Veterinary Regs, the PSI Regulations e.g. regulation of retail pharmacy businesses... some others I'm sure I'm forgetting

Part 2 is the PSI Code of Conduct for pharmacists and the Pharmacy Practice Guidance Manual

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten stuff though. You should give the education dept of the pharmaceutical society a call if you've any other questions - they're quite good if they're not busy

Jesus so many aspects!! Will those aspects be covered during BPharm? Where could I find full texts of those information?
And are those reg & acts more near Common law (Case law) legal system or Civil law legal system? It seems more like a law test rather than a medication test....

angeldelight

ksj1526 wrote: »

Jesus so many aspects!!

I know, tell me about it!

Will those aspects be covered during BPharm? Where could I find full texts of those information?
And are those reg & acts more near Common law (Case law) legal system or Civil law legal system? It seems more like a law test rather than a medication test....

The final exam is 100% a law exam - the clinical stuff is covered in two open book exams during the intern year. It's a terrible exam, no two ways about it. It's not really covered in the BSc - the PSI hold a 3 day forensics course in September where they rush through lots of it and they give you the handouts but if you go onto the Irish government statute book website you can find all the legislation but you'd have to get the syllabus from the PSI. THey ask it in great detail e.g. you have to know what schedules the medicines are e.g. ranitidine is S1B but it's S1Be and so can be sold over the counter under certain conditions (of max pack size, max period of treatment, few others). I'd really recommend sending an email to education@pharmaceuticalsociety.ie to ask in detail any other questions. I did it in November and already have forgotten loads about it

ksj1526

Thanks for your return and I sent a email to education@pharmaceuticalsociety.ie yesterday, but I think I won't get return untill Jan. Also I believe bureaucratic information provided by public orgnizations won't reflex all aspects, and candidates' experience is still essential.