Financial Analyst / Funds Middle Office Job Offers

Posting on behalf of a friend here..

One of the lads who just graduated from a Masters of International Finance has two job offers and is getting it very difficult to choose.. Lucky I know.

The first is in Citco in Dublin.. Middle Office Analyst.. 27k Euro
I myself work in back office in another fund administration company as a fund accountant and I like the sound of this job.. Safe, possible to complete exams and room for promotion. The lad has a big preference for a more mathematical sort of work though.

The second is in First Derivatives in Newry.. Graduate Financial Engineer.. 19k Sterling
This job is what's making the choice difficult. The job seems to have alot of potential for high earnings in the future.. It's performance related pay increments and has a fairly intensive training program. Apparently you can be on upwards of 50k sterling after a couple of years and there's room for travelling internationally.

He's looking at taking the First Derivatives job but needs more opinions.. It's a big decision since he knows people in Dublin and Citco seems like the safe option.

Any thoughts?

Raskolnikov

Deleted User wrote: »

The second is in First Derivatives in Newry.. Graduate Financial Engineer.. 19k Sterling
This job is what's making the choice difficult. The job seems to have alot of potential for high earnings in the future.. It's performance related pay increments and has a fairly intensive training program. Apparently you can be on upwards of 50k sterling after a couple of years and there's room for travelling internationally.

If he's ambitious and doesn't consider himself a homebird, he should go with this option. Be warned though, if you work with First Derivatives YOU WILL HAVE NO LIFE.A friend of mine works with them and he pretty much does 60 hours a week minimum and is constantly traveling (this sounds great at first but because you're so busy working, you'll never be enjoying the sights). However, if you're a young single person you could do well for yourself.

That sounds really rough.. Wouldn't handle that well myself at all. How long is your friend there? Would you know if your friend progressed through the payscale quickly at all?
With the current exchange rate, the difference is pay for the two jobs is pretty big..

pocketdooz

Deleted User wrote: »

Posting on behalf of a friend here..

One of the lads who just graduated from a Masters of International Finance has two job offers and is getting it very difficult to choose.. Lucky I know.

The first is in Citco in Dublin.. Middle Office Analyst.. 27k Euro
I myself work in back office in another fund administration company as a fund accountant and I like the sound of this job.. Safe, possible to complete exams and room for promotion. The lad has a big preference for a more mathematical sort of work though.

The second is in First Derivatives in Newry.. Graduate Financial Engineer.. 19k Sterling
This job is what's making the choice difficult. The job seems to have alot of potential for high earnings in the future.. It's performance related pay increments and has a fairly intensive training program. Apparently you can be on upwards of 50k sterling after a couple of years and there's room for travelling internationally.

He's looking at taking the First Derivatives job but needs more opinions.. It's a big decision since he knows people in Dublin and Citco seems like the safe option.

Any thoughts?

I've only heard bad things about FD in Newry. It's basically a financial engineering job - that's what they call it but it's essentially computer programming plus you are based in Newry which is a long way from anywhere.

They say there is a big opportunity to travel to Boston and NY but that's not true apparantly.

Just what I heard from my mate who works there ...

Interesting..

Do you know anything about the clause in the contract where if you leave, you have to pay back money for the training receveived?

pocketdooz

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting..

Do you know anything about the clause in the contract where if you leave, you have to pay back money for the training receveived?

Yeah, you have to pay €5,000 to get out of your contract as far as I know ....

lol

DJDC

FD in Newry. £19k is a terrible salary when average grad in London starts on £40k but that BO job in Dublin is going nowhere.

ixus

Know two people in FD, but they both went in on 30/35K sterling to best of my knowledge. Haven't heard anything negative about them myself. I would g owith this one over Citco personally.

Citco - can you be a bit more specific as to the role? Middle office is very broad. I don't hold fund admin in the highest regard.

I can't be more specific unfortunately.. What I've said above is about as much as myself or he%

ixus

No worries, I interviewed there before for a role as a P&L Analyst. (Didn't take it as I got a trading job)

I have a friend who did that years ago in a better company and is now head of risk at a better company earning a really good salary.

It is the only role in that company that might interest me as a grad.

Hope that helps.

Ixus

bobbyj946

I'm also interested in FD, if someone is willing I would like to know more about the company.

The title of the position I'm applying for is "Options 2010 FE"

Where abouts in Newry is it, from their home page it says 3 canal quay but on another site it mentions Kilmorey Business Park, I was hoping to find it on google street view.
What is the companies position on Actuarial exams\study leave\exam bonuses?
Are they a nice company to work for?
Any feedback about the company\people\salary would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the impersonal quick fire style questions.

Cheers,
Bj.

cherry89

hey, I'm going for an interview for the options programme tomorrow.

Since these are all old posts...does anyone else know anything about it now? How the interview goes...is it worth it...etc?

cheers

bobbyj946

When I did it, I was in a group of 30.we were broken up into groups of 5.each group did a different task at a time.scenario discussion, 2 one to one interviews, tour, . It was all fairly laid back.
be damn sure you want to join them though, if you want to leave within 1 year you have to give them £5k and 10 if its the next year. I know alot of people who are working for them, some love it and some absolutely hate it. The pay is bad but they do pay for rent, travel. The people also are very nice

Mr_Roger_Bongos

pocketdooz wrote: »

I've only heard bad things about FD in Newry. It's basically a financial engineering job - that's what they call it but it's essentially computer programming plus you are based in Newry which is a long way from anywhere.

They say there is a big opportunity to travel to Boston and NY but that's not true apparantly.

Just what I heard from my mate who works there ...

I'm surprised to hear this, I know 3 people working with them in London who think it's a great company, very tough work but a real launchpad into a financial career (back/middle office and consulting).

The normal process is you're in Newry for 6 weeks for training and then the 3 mates i have all got shipped to London. Two of them still there with 1 being transferred to NY.

Entry level wages you've quoted are correct, but in London an employee has their rent fully paid for and a daily food allowance of £20, which ain't bad. Add these perks into it, assuming £500 pm rent and £400pm food allowance you looking at > £10,000, bringing it to a very respecteable 30k entry level.

EDIT - You also get flights home paid for!

It's true the hours are mental, but i'd encourage your friend to take the FD offer, much better experience and exposure.

cherry89

I completely agree....from the interview, it looks like an amazing company and opportunity (not to mention all expenses paid what with rent etc being so expensive in london) and I really hope I get it! I would assume you have to work hard no matter where you start as a graduate and pay is usually awful...with little if no expenses in most other positions.

OP here, the friend went to NY on his first assignment, then Toronto and then back to Manhattan now.. Long hours but good experience. He said it's alot of programming sort of work which he wasn't expecting.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Didn't even look at the date on your 1st post

At least the advice was sound!

whysomoody

Deleted User wrote: »

OP here, the friend went to NY on his first assignment, then Toronto and then back to Manhattan now.. Long hours but good experience. He said it's alot of programming sort of work which he wasn't expecting.

Was it Kevin?

Not a Kevin no..

TC12

I got an FD interview aswell, does anyone know do most people get turned away at the interview stage or what?

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Not really sure why this would affect your preparation.

This might sound ridiculous but the founder of the company supposedly decree's that none of him employees are to wear brown shoes, ever. Dress plainly.

Competency based questions for interview stage i think.

K09

ixus wrote: »

I don't hold fund admin in the highest regard.

Any particular reason for this? Just curious.

Also what actually is back office and middle office? Sorry if its a stupid question but looking to learn more about this industry.

Thanks

BO, Back Office is the administration side of things, primarily concerned with post-transaction based operations.
MO, Middle Office is not much more than the BO with a glorified title, primarily concerned with processing operations.
Both of these areas function as support for the FO, Front Office is the revenue-generating side of the business, where the money is made and where consequently the big salaries are. Unfortunately front office roles are practically non-existent in Dublin.

To provide an example, a hedge-fund will have its front office - the people making the investment decisions in London and the middle/back office admin in Dublin. Back Office and Middle Office used to be a starting point to get into the front office but that is not the way things happen anymore. Therefore my advice would be to avoid the back office / middle office if you can from a career point of view. Unless you are running your own fund admin company or similar and taking the profits.

Fund administration companies are basically back and middle office companies. What glasso said is correct, go for front office if you want the best career possible in funds. You'll need the CFA though which I signed up for and instantly lost interest in.

If you want to work normal hours and not deal with the stress, goto back office or middle office where you earn a decent salary.. The existance of the front office and the names given to the three areas unfairly make them sound like bad jobs. The money is good for the hours and low stress involved. There is a promotions ladder but it caps out fairly quickly.. The best thing about the job is that fund admin is done all around the world and doesn't change.

If and when I make it to Oz, that's the work I'll try and do for a year or two to save and keep travelling.

ongarboy

I wouldn't underestimate the potential of MO/BO jobs/careers in the funds industry too much. You can have a great career progression with many exciting challenges in MO/BO as well. Many of the BOs based in Dublin are centres of excellence for Europe and beyond and it is where the R&D takes place and new and innovative solutions are created, developed and can eventually become industry standards. If you are into project management (PM) and are motivated, then a successful career can lie ahead. I can vouch for that having started as an entry level graduate with a non finance degree and have now been promoted 4 times and have a salary most of my friends would envy. I still count job satisfaction as a far more important factor than salary, btw!

If you are just looking to be a hedge fund manager or a Wall Street the movie type, then yes, you will have to go to London or New York but you will most definitely have to earn your salary/bonuses with 60+ hour weeks/ enormous deadline pressures etc but hey some people get their adrenaline rushes this way.

K09

Hi,

I am looking to get an understanding into the role of funds - mainly fund admin and the daily role of fund accountant.

Any good resources/websites on this?

Thanks!!

openthedoor

hey for anyone who applied to first derivatives this year do you know how long it took for a reply following the interview?just had mine last week, seems like a pretty tough but enjoyable environment

stake1

what is the ave salary for a fund admin entry level?

ixus

stake1 wrote: »

what is the ave salary for a fund admin entry level?

Used to be about 22-25K, probably about 20-23K now though I don't have anything to back this up.

I came out of college and started on 27k in Galway two and a half years ago.. Should be higher in Dublin.

johnml333

<SNIP>

Post removed on the request of the OP

Interesting.

mono627

Cheers for the honest opinion...had heard bad things about these myself!

Tobyglen

Heard the same, lots in my former class are working with them now.

jk456

hi can someone update me what its like to work with First Derivatives?

Interested to know what was in that post that was removed? any info would be helpful thanks....

Dogg2

Can I ask Cherry, did you get the job, and if so, what is it like?