Organ Donor Cards - Should it Be Opt-in or Opt-out?

CityCentreMan

There always seems to be a shortage of organ donors yet I am sure that most people would be fairly happy to donate their organs after death if they could benefit someone else.

I now carry an organ donor card but for most of my life I did'nt. Not on principle but basically because it was'nt something that I got around to doing.

I think that the law should be changed so that there would be an assumption that everyone agrees to donate their organs unless there is an "I'm NOT AN ORGAN DONOR card" present.

I dont understand why this is not the case!

Bigdeadlydave

No it should be opt in. If its not there will be much more cases of organs being mistakingly taken.
I reckon im not the only person who doesent want to donate their organs.

CityCentreMan

But which is the bigger mistake -

A) Somebody dies because I have forgotten to carry my organ donor card ..... or

You are annoyed up in heaven because someone else is using your old kidney because you forgot to put your "Its my organs and I'm not sharing them card" in your wallet?

I think that you would be annoyed by the mistake but with all the good things going on up in heaven you'd get over it!

The Big Red Button

Maybe put up a poll for this?

Personally I definitely think an "opt-out" system should be in place.

Under the current system, there are probably plenty of people who would be happy to have their organs used to save others, but who just never get round to carrying a card/making their intentions known. Patients die as a result.

At least, if there was an opt-out system, people "forgetting" to make the effort to register as not wanting to donate their organs won't result in anyone else dying. And I reckon, if anyone feels strongly about it, they'll make the effort.

I think it would work quite well if there was a system whereby everyone is registered on a national database - and, while everyone would automatically be registered as donors, they could apply to change their status at any stage with minimum fuss and no reasons required. It would also be totally anonymous. And reminders should be sent around to each household regularly explaining how the system worked and how to opt out, if desired.

The Big Red Button

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

No it should be opt in. If its not there will be much more cases of organs being mistakingly taken.

I'm sorry but I really fail to see your reasoning behind this. What would the negative consequences be of someone's organs being "mistakenly taken" when they die, assuming the person never felt strongly enough to bother opting out of the system when they were alive?

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

I reckon im not the only person who doesent want to donate their organs.

As far as I know, under the current system, it's not you who decides anyways - it's your next of kin.

chocgirl

I reckon it should be opt out. I carry a donor card but a lot of people I know don't but would still be up for donating their organs.

Iron Hide

In all fairness yer not gonna be using them when when your pushin up daisies, alright i do smoke, crap eyesight, dodgy kidneys so i ain't exactly the Lamborghini of organ donors but hell, any of ye are welcome to me unwanted bits!!

glaston

Opt out!
Anybody who opts out should be disqualified from receiving a donated organ (rule applied to over 18s).

heyjude

glaston wrote: »

Opt out!
Anybody who opts out should be disqualified from receiving a donated organ (rule applied to over 18s).

Doing this would certainly encourage people with unhealthy lifestyles to register for organ donation, as they may be at greater risk of needing a replacement organ, but their own organs mightn't be much good to anyone else. Eg. If I'm an alcoholic and only registered organ donors qualify for organ replacement, then I'm likely to register so I can get a replacement liver when my own liver is shot. The law of unintended consequences!!

ToniTuddle

On the other Organ Donor type thread (can't remember which forum it was in) the majority of people said yes to the idea of it.
The majority of them also had the cards(including myself).

I got mine in the local library back in secondary school.
Not sure where they are easily available now to the public?
Without having to send away for them I mean.

glaston

heyjude wrote: »

Doing this would certainly encourage people with unhealthy lifestyles to register for organ donation, as they may be at greater risk of needing a replacement organ, but their own organs mightn't be much good to anyone else. Eg. If I'm an alcoholic and only registered organ donors qualify for organ replacement, then I'm likely to register so I can get a replacement liver when my own liver is shot. The law of unintended consequences!!

Eh?

I stated opt out, i.e. you only register if you dont want somebody to get your organs. Consent is presumed. Dont see how your argument follows.

AARRRGH

It should be opt in.

I want to be frozen and sent into space.

If my children deny me this I will make random books fall off their bookshelf and tilt their wall paintings so they're crooked.

Joycey

Opt out

Gyalist

Opt in. A person's body is not the property of the state or the medical profession and it is up to them to decide.

While it is regrettable and even distressing that there are people waiting for transplants, no one has a right to someone else's organs.

Organ donations don't save lives, they merely delay death.

glaston

Gyalist wrote: »

Organ donations don't save lives, they merely delay death.

Life expectancy for organ recipients is improving all the time, there are plenty of people out there who have lived for over 20 years after transplant.

Bigdeadlydave

They are my organs and I shouldn't have to go through a lot of trouble getting a card, making sure I bring it etc so in the unfortunate incidence that I die, so that my organs wont be harvested.

philologos

Where does one get a donor card anyway? Quite interested.

amacachi

Gyalist wrote: »

Organ donations don't save lives, they merely delay death.

Flawless logic right there. Beautiful.

Joycey

glaston wrote: »

Life expectancy for organ recipients is improving all the time, there are plenty of people out there who have lived for over 20 years after transplant.

I think you might have missed the point

The Big Red Button

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

They are my organs and I shouldn't have to go through a lot of trouble getting a card, making sure I bring it etc so in the unfortunate incidence that I die, so that my organs wont be harvested.

Well I don't think it should be based on whether you're carrying a card or not anyways!

Ideally there should be a computerised system whereby every person's preference re. organ donation is listed. And this could be accessed by medical professionals when necessary. While I would like to see an opt-out system being brought in ... well, even if an opt-in system was retained then having a national computerised record would mean that the wishes of people wishing to donate organs would be known and respected in the case of an accident etc - rather than having the next-of-kin make the decision.

I respect the decision of anyone who does not want to donate their organs. I honestly can't say I understand it, but I absolutely understand that it is their own decision. Therefore I don't think that non-donors should be put under any pressure to explain or defend their choice ... however, an well-publicised easily-understood opt-out system would allow them to easily register their choice not to allow their organs to be donated.

CityCentreMan

I think that BigDeadly is just coming in with a contrary view just to stir things up and create a bit of a debate and I am glad that he did because this thread is certainly livelier as a result.

Speaking personally, I cannot see how anyone can get upset about donating your organs after death. In my view, one should be only allowed to opt out after signing a declaration that you would like to do so and I would like to see the consequences of this being that you would be precluded from being an organ recipient for a period of 20 years from date of signing.

Does anyone know the real reason that it is opt in - it seems silly to me!

pH

Organ donation should be opt-in and reciprocal.

At the age of 18 you should be required by the state to make an organ-donation decision, whether you want to be involved or not. This is a legally binding decision, but it works both ways, for donating and receiving.

So at 18 if you opt-out of organ donation, when you're 56 and need a kidney then it's too late. However if you've opted in then you're entitled to a kidney.

Something similar could be done for children up to the age of 18, however this time it would be parents making the decision - again legally binding up to the age of 18.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

philologos

As for organ donor cards, can someone answer this. If I have a health insurance card, and if I tick that I am willing to donate my organs after death that's effectively an organ donor card?

CityCentreMan

Jakkass wrote: »

As for organ donor cards, can someone answer this. If I have a health insurance card, and if I tick that I am willing to donate my organs after death that's effectively an organ donor card?

Yes it is - I think!

Dave!

Jakkass wrote: »

As for organ donor cards, can someone answer this. If I have a health insurance card, and if I tick that I am willing to donate my organs after death that's effectively an organ donor card?

Not sure about that really. Drivers licences have a section on the back to indicate that you're a donor also. But I think in this country they have to ask your next-of-kin anyways, so even a donor card isn't legally binding.

Best bet is to sign/fill in whatever sections you see on your insurance card, drivers licence, etc., as well as carry an organ donor card -- and make it clear to your next-of-kin that you are eager, in the event of your death, for your organs to be used to save a life.

You can get a card from most pharmacists, GPs offices, credit unions, and so on.

Or, you can text the word DONOR to 50050 and they'll send you out one (after you reply to subsequent texts with your address, etc.)

If you're on Facebook, join this group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=195913930687

ztoical

Dave! wrote: »

and make it clear to your next-of-kin that you are eager, in the event of your death, for your organs to be used to save a life.

this is the more important issue then wither your carrying a card or not. I'm terrible for losing my donor card but have made it very clear to my mum as my next of kin that if my organs are of any use to someone well let them have them. Donor cards are not legally binding like say a DNR order or living will they just suggestion your preference, it is your next of kin who will make the call so it's important you make them aware and if you are someones next of kin you are aware of their wishes. When taking organs the hospital will have to speak with a next of kin to ask lifestyle and family history questions to see if your organs can actually be used....the % that can be is actually very low.

Would be better to have something like the uk with the Organ Donation Register that you can easily sign up to and any hospital can check. At the moment you've several groups like the Bone Bank and the Irish Kidney Association that keep track but it would be better to have one single source for doctors to check.

It also needs to be clear what you are donating your organs for. While most are happy to donate an organ for transplant, alot of organs are kept for research and some might feel that is not what they wanted. While I would like my organs to help someone I know the older I get the less likely that is so I would be happy to donate all or parts of my body to a medical school.

Pushtrak

Definitely opt-out. If my organs are of good enough condition that they are usable, by all means, take em.










Once I'm dead, naturally.

Valmont

I would hate if some low-life got my organs. If there was a "what type of person would you like to give your organs to" option I might consider it. Mean, I know, but they're mine damn it!

RandolphEsq

I too don't believe in any valid reason to not have an 'opt out' system. People themselves are generally so apathetic and lazy when it comes to such proactive steps involved in the current 'opt in' system. If they were all automatically signed up, they would accept it for two reasons; 1. they don't actually mind donating their organs after death. 2.they are such sheep that because everyone else is doing it they assume it is 'right'.

Jakkass wrote: »

Where does one get a donor card anyway? Quite interested.

Local blood donation clinic has loads of them just on the counter when you go in. Just take one!

On a separate note, I don't understand the comment "yeah I would donate my organs, but not my eyes". This makes me lol because I cannot think of any reason why someone would not want to donate their eyes, but the rest of their organs! Maybe they think that a person will then see things they way they saw things? Which is of course a load of tripe

philologos

If you were cremated it would be irrelevant, they could just pluck out your organs and then burn your body into ashes.

It'd be cool if you could write a little note to everyone receiving your organs telling them why you did this, and how you'd like them to benefit from organ X!

johnnyskeleton

CityCentreMan wrote: »

There always seems to be a shortage of organ donors yet I am sure that most people would be fairly happy to donate their organs after death if they could benefit someone else.

I now carry an organ donor card but for most of my life I did'nt. Not on principle but basically because it was'nt something that I got around to doing.

I think that the law should be changed so that there would be an assumption that everyone agrees to donate their organs unless there is an "I'm NOT AN ORGAN DONOR card" present.

I dont understand why this is not the case!

There is no legal right to ownership of a corpse, other than a vague right of sepulchure which might or might not exist in Ireland.

But realistically if I die without an organ donor card and the doctors are not sure whether to harvest my organs or not, they will ask my next of kin. They will either know my views on the issue or alternatively make an educated guess as to what I want.

So the only way in which your idea would benefit would be in the case of people with no next of kin and no organ doner card but who would like to donate their organs. Put against this would be people who don't carry a "I'm NOT AN ORGAN DONOR" card but whose next of kin know for a fact that they would not like their organs to be donated. By the new law introduced, they would have their organs harvested against their will because of a simple omission.

Also, what about people who want their organs to be sold after they die to pay for funeral expenses, or those who have donated their bodies to medical science for consideration?

I admire the sentiment, but realistically there can be nothing other than the default position of not harvesting the organs, and if someone gives express consent to it then great. A better use of resources would be to send out an organ donor card to everyone or get them to sign up on a central database in exchange for a pint or two.

RandolphEsq

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There is no legal right to ownership of a corpse, other than a vague right of sepulchure which might or might not exist in Ireland.

But realistically if I die without an organ donor card and the doctors are not sure whether to harvest my organs or not, they will ask my next of kin. They will either know my views on the issue or alternatively make an educated guess as to what I want.

So the only way in which your idea would benefit would be in the case of people with no next of kin and no organ doner card but who would like to donate their organs. Put against this would be people who don't carry a "I'm NOT AN ORGAN DONOR" card but whose next of kin know for a fact that they would not like their organs to be donated. By the new law introduced, they would have their organs harvested against their will because of a simple omission.

Also, what about people who want their organs to be sold after they die to pay for funeral expenses, or those who have donated their bodies to medical science for consideration?

I admire the sentiment, but realistically there can be nothing other than the default position of not harvesting the organs, and if someone gives express consent to it then great. A better use of resources would be to send out an organ donor card to everyone or get them to sign up on a central database in exchange for a pint or two.

AFAIC when a person dies it is up to the state to deal with their body. Obviously the State chooses to deal with that body in a manner most suited to the common good. Therefore organs are dealt out to those who require them.
Ultimately it is disturbed logic and hypothetical beliefs in the afterlife that create reasons against organ donation

johnnyskeleton

RandolphEsq wrote: »

AFAIC when a person dies it is up to the state to deal with their body. Obviously the State chooses to deal with that body in a manner most suited to the common good.

It's not an issue that I've looked into thoroughly so I'm open to correction, but I don't think that that is the case. It may be up to the state where there is no next of kin (as the state is the ultimate intestate successor) and again while there is no actual legal right to the corpse (i.e. it is not considered property) the right of sephulcre (which might or might not exist in Ireland) would entitle the next of kin to dispose of the body how they wish.

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Therefore organs are dealt out to those who require them.

Wasn't there a big scandal where they took the baby organs without consent a few years ago?

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Ultimately it is disturbed logic and hypothetical beliefs in the afterlife that create reasons against organ donation

While I don't believe in an afterlife, other people do, and I wouldn't say it is disturbed logic that people wish to honour the deceased by their own custom. People have their own views on organ donation, not all of which are religiously motivated, and to assume that it is disturbed logic to not want to donate organs is quite an assumption.

cbyrd

CityCentreMan wrote: »

There always seems to be a shortage of organ donors yet I am sure that most people would be fairly happy to donate their organs after death if they could benefit someone else.

I now carry an organ donor card but for most of my life I did'nt. Not on principle but basically because it was'nt something that I got around to doing.

I think that the law should be changed so that there would be an assumption that everyone agrees to donate their organs unless there is an "I'm NOT AN ORGAN DONOR card" present.

I dont understand why this is not the case!

As far as i know this is something that will be debated by the powers that be in the new year... and they are looking into the opt out card.. heard it on ray d'arcy a few weeks ago...

conchubhar1

opt-in.

should cremation be opt-out? seriously.....

Bottle_of_Smoke

Opt out. But I wouldn't object to mandatory harvesting of organs. I don't get this uproar when people find out hospitals kept organs for research. They're just body tissue ffs.

Bigdeadlydave

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Opt out. But I wouldn't object to mandatory harvesting of organs. I don't get this uproar when people find out hospitals kept organs for research. They're just body tissue ffs.

Its because it is theft on the lowest possible level. Personally if a hospital took the brain/heart/liver/whatever from a loved one who died without permission, I would be really pissed off. Its very impersonal to treat a person like a piece of meat just because they have died.