Pay to play...a road to nowhere???

MickMcMichaels

Hey i just thought id start this thread as im sure some bands have an opinion on the 'pay to play' set up in most of the music venues in dublin. When i say 'pay to play' i mean the venue takes the first few hundred taken in at the door when you play. Coupled with this you are required to make up the audience COMPLETELY yourself ie. ask all your family and friends to come see you play (the venue does no work enticing people to come). Doesn't this mean that ultimately the only people you play to are people who know you?? In my opinion, it is fairly useless in spreading the word about your music. I think residencies in a pub would be far more beneficial in getting new people to hear your music. Any one have their own opinions on this setup?

ToCrowd

As someone who has played in local bands, sat in bars listening to local bands, and working in bars where local bands play i can say this much

1) about 6/10 local bands that you get are what are best described as crowd cleaners, many Friday nights Ive stood behind an empty bar and watched the random howling of some groups clear a bar of a crowd of everyone that was in it except the bands girlfriends and friends.No bar anymore couldnt possible want or afford that.
2) If you don't have enough of a personal following to fill the bar your going into, then don't go into it. If the bar wants 300 euros cover charge to stand the loss of earnings for the night, so be it. i can honestly tell you there has been many nights we have been down over a grand on till receipts because of bands emptying it, lots of smaller venues dont have pay to play, use them, you just cant expect to play in the main bars in your city and have everyone love you. making it in music is alot of hard work and touring trying to find enough people who get into your music, you just cant walk into a bar and the crowd to be there!
3) You cant rely on the bar to promote someone who for the most part will be in catergory1 above. While that band might come back odds are if the bar put itself forward as this style of music it would go out of business fast and then you would have no venues to play in. Also remember that there is probably more than one gig a week in the said bar, and do you really think the bar has the time / effort / money to go put up posters around a town for you? what do you expect next? roadies on site to hand your guitars and sticks as you walk in the front door.
4) DO your research carefully, just because you like a random style of some indie band or the mainline metal sound of iron maiden doesn't mean everyone else in the bar does, most people who are gig going have very rigid guidelines of what they think is music (and will often spend many a night trying to argue why everyone else is tone deaf and clearly they are the only ones who can see it, everyone else just doesn't get it) , spend a night or two in the bar first listening to the music the bar plays as ambient background, if your style is nothing like it, book else where.

lmahoney79

We tend to avoid pay to play as its not very fair on the band......Yes the band does advertise alot but also posters in the bar too helps. The places we play pay us to play there as we are providing a service for them by providing entertainment, if they are afraid of losing lots of money then they should research the bands themselves a bit more. hiring a band to play in a pub is a risk to band and bar. The band dont want to play to an empty room either but its not their responsibility to bring the full crowd either. Bands have to go to a lot of effort to play a gig and then having to pay a few hundred quid for the pleasure also if just a rip off. We avoid 'pay to play' gigs like the plague!

MickMcMichaels

Thanks for the all the advice! I see what you mean about some bands actually driving people away thats one aspect i hadn't thought of. I realise it is extremely hard work to get a following and no pub is going to do everything for you they are running a business. I also don't expect the main bars in dublin to take a chance on a band they havent heard of. We will play anywhere once there are actually people there! There is no egos here!

Savman

Oooh good thread! Pay to play type deals are a fast track to nowhere, IMHO.

ToCrowd

Savman wrote: »

Oooh good thread! Pay to play type deals are a fast track to nowhere, IMHO.

Unfortunately i cant really see any alternative for most venues, The way you should look at it is you are renting a Bar for the night, just as you probably rent a rehearsal space somewhere, local gigs were actually the last to get hit for pay to play in cork, as most venues have been renting the gig rooms for functions like birthdays for years. and birthdays make a hell of alot more money for bars than gigs do. We were lucky to get as long as possible before they hit gig nights and to be honest if your not prepared to advertise your self, by sticking up posters on every lamppost, shop window, random hobo who wasn't fast enough moving you have to look at what you want from this! i mean for me, its only a bit of fun and good craic and a night out.
If you want to be lazy about it, just get support slots from bands who do the work. its not a perfect world but its the way it works
And if you really want to make it in the music world rather than it just being a past time and rather enjoyable hobby either join a weddings / functions band or move out of the area because quite frankly the gig scene in Ireland is tiny compared to the gig going populations of other countries.

raindog.promo

I would imagine the bar sees it as you renting a venue for a purpose. That purpose may be holding a 21st birthday party or putting on your band. Unfortunately, with a surplus of bands and a lack of venues, the venues call the shots.

If more venues paid bands and had residencies, it might have a knock-on effect of better quality bands out there, it may also, as pointed out in the second post be economically unfeasable for venues to do so.

Africa

Avoid them like the plague now myself, we only play places where either free to play or possible to get paid if we get a crowd.