Long runs when training for shorter distances

rainbow kirby

Might sound like a silly question, but I'm just wondering about what sort of distances I should be covering for my long runs while I'm training for shorter races and trying to slowly build mileage. I'm hoping to build to about 40mpw before training for DCM 2010 starts.

I don't plan on racing anything longer than 10k early in 2010, but I'm considering the Kildare or Limerick half in May (not certain yet whether I'll actually do this, because they're on around exam time). I'm currently doing about 30 miles a week, running about 5 days a week, and aiming for 10-12 mile long runs. I'm wondering is there much benefit in stretching a long run beyond 2 hours (which is 12-13 miles for me) if the longest distance I'm going to be racing for the next while will be 10k. Of course, if I decide to do a half the long runs will probably get stretched out to 15-16 miles, but that's not in any way decided yet.

Opinions, anyone?

tunguska

Ecoli is the man to talk to about this one Rainbow. He uses the techniques of.......God I cant remember his name, but he was some guy who recommended long distance running even if youre only competing in short distance races.

TheRoadRunner

tunguska wrote: »

God I cant remember his name

Arthur Lydiard

kennyb3

any idea on how far he suggests.

rainbow im in same position and am doing 10miles as my long run off 30 miles a week and will step it up to 13 when i get up to 39/40 miles per week.

read somewhere before long run shouldnt be more than 33% of total mileage hence my reasoning

meathcountysec

Is this any use?

--amadeus--

This is from Wikipedia, but it's not a bad summary:

In the base training phase of his system Lydiard insisted, dogmatically, that his athletes—not least 800 metres athlete Peter Snell—must train 100 miles (160 km) a week. He was completely inflexible on this requirement. In the 1950s and 1960s during the base phase of their training the athletes under Lydiard's tutelage would run a 35 km Sunday training route, from his famed 5 Wainwright Avenue address in West Auckland, through steep and winding roads in the Waitakere mountain ranges. The total cumulative ascent in the Waitakeres was over 500 metres. After laying such an arduous endurance base Lydiard's athletes—including Murray Halberg, Peter Snell, Barry Magee and John Davies—were ready to challenge the world, winning six Olympic medals between them in the 1960 Rome Olympics and the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. Snell who, after retiring from athletics in the mid-1960s went on to obtain a PhD in exercise physiology, stated in his autobiography No Bugles No Drums that the marathon-conditioning-endurance aspect of Lydiard's training was the primary factor in his success as a world-beating middle distance athlete

I haven't done any in depth study of Lydiard but as far as I know he recommends that everyone runs marathon style base training. Bit extreme for most people with other commitments I would have thought

tisnotover

would be in same boat as kennyb3 and rainbow kirby at moment. averaging 30miles a week with a long run of 10-12miles, which is at 12miles the last while.
When I step up the mileage to 35/40, I'll make the long run 13-14miles.

shels4ever

I would say it dependsd on what phase of training your in, if your training for short races that are a long while off and your in a base phase maybe 90-120 min runs are whats needed, but if your in race season and are doing lots of other quality work i'd say 75-90 mins. It really depends on the person for us slower peoplei if you say 12-15 miles you could be talkin more then 2 horus runs, so I'd usually go on time on feet for my long run now. At the moment i'm only at about 10 (85 mins) miles but will increase this to about 2 hours over the next 5 week.

TheRoomWrecker

the Lydiard approach is followed by alot of top coaches, mcmillan, salazar, hudson, daniels etc,

but to answer your question, a general rule for the long run, is that it should be between 20-25percent max of your total weekly milege.

Running Bing

I go 25% of weekly mileage with an upper limit of 2 hours.

For people doing lower mileage or only running 4 days a week Daniels suggests 30% of weekly mileage.

I find if I keep my Long run to 25% of my weekly mileage I can run hard the day before it and I dont need a lot of time to recover after it......this could be an issue if your LR makes up more than 30% of your weekly mileage....after all a 10k is not a marathon so the Long run should not be the main focus of your training.

ecoli

I think Tunguska was maybe referring to Renato Canova with that reference also as they are two of the coaches i buy into many of their philosophies.
If you take Snell, two months before his WR in the 800m he completed a 2.20 marathon so it thing that with the strength you are enhancing ability to run at your top end for longer.
20-25% of your weekly mileage sounds about right and will benefit you greatly.
In terms of my training i am at the moment i am doing a Half marathon in Feb but the idea is that this will give me a great base for the track season where i will be looking to 3k S/C so but training mileage wise wont change to much so that my give you some insight.
Hope this helps

tergat

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Might sound like a silly question, but I'm just wondering about what sort of distances I should be covering for my long runs while I'm training for shorter races and trying to slowly build mileage. I'm hoping to build to about 40mpw before training for DCM 2010 starts.

I don't plan on racing anything longer than 10k early in 2010, but I'm considering the Kildare or Limerick half in May (not certain yet whether I'll actually do this, because they're on around exam time). I'm currently doing about 30 miles a week, running about 5 days a week, and aiming for 10-12 mile long runs. I'm wondering is there much benefit in stretching a long run beyond 2 hours (which is 12-13 miles for me) if the longest distance I'm going to be racing for the next while will be 10k. Of course, if I decide to do a half the long runs will probably get stretched out to 15-16 miles, but that's not in any way decided yet.

Opinions, anyone?

rainbow kirby,

For you, looking at your current mileage level and ability doing a long run of about 85-95 mins is plenty. If you do this over rolling hills and start doing the last 10 mins or so at a steady pace you will gain as much as doing 2 hrs+. For racing shorter distances this length of time is right for you. Also try to think time on your feet and not how many miles you are covering, that is irrelevant.

If you keep your long runs to this amount of time you will also recover quicker and will gain more benefit from the rest of your training week. Doing 2 hrs for somone of your mileage level/ability is over kill and you will not be recovered and more likely to pick up an injury/illness.

The best thing you can do is focus on increasing your mileage gradually over the months and years and your long run will increase in turn. People need to realise long term improvement as a runner requires patience and consistancy. Every year your easy pace should naturally get quicker (through inc fitness levels), your weekly mileage should inc and your long run should inc.

One last thing, the long run is a vital part of a distance runners week from 800m to marathon and should be done year round. When you are racing drop the long run for the week but get straight back to it the following week. During the racing part of the season just cut the long run down a bit and fit it into the plan.

It is very important distance runners incorporate all aspects of training into their plans, 'what you dont use you will lose'. No long run reduced endurance, no strides/short sprints etc reduced speed.

Tergat

rainbow kirby

^^ Thanks

Will take that into consideration when trying to plan out my training for the next while.