sat dish vs house rules

storch

Hi,

Two months I moved to Donabate. Unfortunately, the TV operator in the residential apartments is Magnet. On the quality of service they can write a book.
I decided to install a satellite dish.

I read in house rules that:
-The erection of external wireless, television aerials or satellite dishes is not permitted without the written approval perior of the management company. If you do erect any such object you will be charged for its removal .-

On 6 December 2009 I sent an email to Curran Property Management on the content:
-Following the rules of the house we are asking for permission to install a satellite dish on the balcony, since the operator of which is available in The Gallery does not meet our expectations.
We want to inform you that the installation of satellite dish in no way damage the facade of the building.
Dish will be installed on the balcony with no damage to the building .-

On 10 December I got a reply from a man named Graham (did not give the names and functions of the CPM):

-Thanks for the mail but as per the house rules Dishes are not permitted in the Gallery and this is strictly enforced by the committee .-
Very comprehensive answer.

On 12 December I wrote to Graham:
-Dear Graham,
Therefore that I got negative answer I renew my request.

I am asking for permission to install a satellite dish on the balcony of my apartment (inside the balcony, on the floor.), Since the operator of which is available in The Gallery does not meet our expectations.
I want to inform you that the installation of satellite dish in no way damage the facade of the building.
Dish will be installed on the balcony (the balcony inside, on the floor) with no damage to the building.A satellite dish installed on their own.The size of satellite dish will be the standard size what he is used by the operator Sky TV . Her color will also be dark.


I would first point out that any private individual wishing to install a satellite dish should, as a rule, have the right to do so, and that the notion 'right to satellite reception "for individuals was explicitly set out in the Commission of European Parliament a communication satellite dish of 27 June 2001 (COM (2001) 351 final).
Foreign nationals in Republic of Ireland are entitled to receive satellite broadcasts from their home countries and that, independently of their nationality, individual citizens should enjoy unrestricted access to satellite television broadcasts and hence to other European cultures.

This opportunity stems in particular from Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, as interpreted by the Court of Human Rights in its judgment of 22 May 1990, Autronic, according to which Article 10 of the Convention "applies not only to the content of information but also to the means of transmission or reception ', and that, in particular,' the reception of television programs by means of a dish or other aerial comes within the right laid down in the first two sentences of Article 10 § 1 '. Such an interpretation means that freedom of expression, ie freedom to broadcast and receive information as enshrined in the Convention, also includes the right of an individual to install a satellite dish.

According to established case-law of the Court of Justice of the European Communities, fundamental rights are an integral part of the general principles of law enshrined in the Community legal order (see, for example, The Judgment of 18 June 1991, Elliniki Radiophonia, C-260/89, paragraph 41). Moreover, Article 6 (2) of the Treaty on European Union explicitly stipulates that the Union shall respect fundamental rights, as guaranteed by the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms signed in Rome on 4 November 1950.

Furthermore, this' right to satellite reception "stems from the principle of free movement and free reception of services in the internal market, including radio and TV programs in the European Community, in implementation of Article 49 EC (see, inter alia, the Sacchi judgment of 30 April 1974, 155/73, paragraph 7, and more recently, the De Coster judgment of 29 November 2001, C-17/00, paragraph 28). This article is directly and unconditionally enforceable in the national legal systems. In addition, according to the Court of Justice and the free movement of services in the internal market is a fundamental principle of Community law, from which not only benefit the service providers, but also those for whom the services are intended (see Van der Elst judgment of 9 August 1994, 43/93, paragraph 13). The idea that this right also belongs to those for whom the services are intended can also be confirmed by the text of the EC Treaty itself and in particular by the notion of the 'f
ree movement of services' as laid down in Article 3 (c) and Article 14 (2).
Moreover, as already pointed out on several occasions by the Court of Justice, it is necessary to prohibit the restriction of this fundamental freedom not only in respect of action taken by public authorities but also in respect of other kinds of rules which seek to regulate the provision of services. Indeed, the elimination of obstacles to the free movement of services, a key objective of the EC, would be jeopardised unless we eliminated not only government-created barriers but also those created by associations or bodies which are not governed by public law, in exercising their legal autonomy (see, inter alia, the judgments of 12 December 1974, Walrave, 36/74, of 9 June 1977, Van Ameyde, 90/76, of 14 July 1976, Donà, C-13/76, of 15 December 1995, Bosman, C-415/93, and of 13 April 2000, Lehtonen, C-176/96).

Likewise, in its aforementioned communication on satellite dishes, the Commission stated that any obstacles to freedom of choice, discrimination between the alternative means of receiving services, or indirect restrictions on the right to use a satellite dish were unacceptable. It would therefore be unacceptable to force private individuals to receive TV programs via the network cable rather than via a satellite dish.

However, neither freedom of expression nor the principle of the free movement of services should be considered absolute prerogatives. The individual right to install a satellite dish, which is covered by freedom of expression, must be Exercised in such a way as to respect certain information and consultation arrangements, as required in apartment blocks, for example, and should be assessed on a case - by-case basis.

Naturally, the opportunity to install a satellite dish should not be hindered by excessively costly installation and operational arrangements which would result in the restriction of an individual's opportunity to receive all the programs of his choice, even less should it be hindered by a general ban or groundless rejection, or opposed.

On 14 December 2009 I got a reply:
-Under company law this decision was voted on and agreed at the AGM level .-
Again, an exhaustive answer.

Therein same day wrote back:
-OK. All right. To see you at the court .-

On 15 December 2009 I got a reply:
-Thanks for your mail please be aware that your action will not be against
Curran Property Management, but Turvey Walk Management Company Ltd --
What a surprise for me.TWMC LTD.....COMMITTEE .

Only contact with this committee is e-mail address.
15 December 2009 I wrote and sent e-mail address of the committee:
-I am asking for permission to install a satellite dish on the balcony of my apartment(inside the balcony,on the floor .), since the operator TV which is available in The Gallery does not meet our expectations.
I want to inform you that the installation of satellite dish in no way damage the facade of the building.
Dish will be installed on the balcony(inside the balcony,on the floor) with no damage to the building.A satellite dish installed on their own.The size of satellite dish will be the standard size what he is used by the operator Sky Tv .Colour will also be dark.-

....and silence. no response until today.

What do you think? What do I do next?

chughes

What's the worse that can happen if you do go ahead and install ?

Have you spoken to any of the other residents in the block ? I'd imagine that you'll find you will have support from other residents if the current service provider isn't up to scratch.

hugoline

I would put one up, but hide/disguise it as much as possible.
i.e. put it (almost) horizontal on floor, cover with plastic, paint that,....

the best ilustration I could find for the moment is here

Edit: A picture of an actual install. Please note that this is installed in Germany and the dish would be tilted a bit more here. Put a big plastic bag over it and nobody will know...

Otherwise don't use the 'standart' Sky dish, but either a flat antenna like the ATISAT FL500 or other disguised antennas. I have used the FL500 in Dublin myself and got all the channels at 28.8 (sky) that I wanted.

Beware though, that during rain smaller satellite dishes (flat or other design, mainly designed for central europe) just won't do!
There are some older threads in the sattelite forum if you are looking for other alternatives.

Mike 1972

storch wrote: »

....and silence. no response until today.

What do you think? What do I do next?

A letter to the second managment company giving them 21 days to respond maybe ?

storch

Mike 1972 wrote: »

A letter to the second managment company giving them 21 days to respond maybe ?

Hi Mike 1972,
Contact with committee is only via email.I know this from Graham's first company management .

T-Square

Put the dish up (even a cheapo dish with no wiring)
If it isn't torn down, stick up/wire up the actual dish.

I doubt a management company will do anything.

When I rented, the only thing they did was take our money and run.

storch

storch wrote: »

Hi Mike 1972,
Contact with committee is only via email.I know this from Graham's first company management .

and something else.
on November 4, 2009 a meeting of the committee. meeting was in the apartment of one of the attendees. Two days ago I threw the list of mailboxes five attendees (the committee consists of 9). I have written letters that I sent the email requesting permission to install and I have no answer. and what? no response until today. nobody reads emails?!

storch

[QUOTE=I doubt a management company will do anything.

[/QUOTE]

I have a report from this meeting. it says that one of the illegal satellite dish has been removed.

T-Square

I suggest you start making a nuisance of yourself.
Call them twice a day until you get what you want.

The whole idea of not allowing people to erect satellite dishes,
only makes sense, if the service provided by magnet is top quality,
or a communal satellite dish (think 3 meters) is placed on top of the penthouse.

Flay into them storch, make their life a living hell.
Who do mis-management companies think they are?

storch

T-Square wrote: »

I suggest you start making a nuisance of yourself.
Call them twice a day until you get what you want.

The whole idea of not allowing people to erect satellite dishes,
only makes sense, if the service provided by magnet is top quality,
or a communal satellite dish (think 3 meters) is placed on top of the penthouse.

Flay into them storch, make their life a living hell.
Who do mis-management companies think they are?

call? how? contact with them, just email.
a communal satellite dish? not here.
magnet? box is a misunderstanding. the price of the tv is more expensive than the sky individually.

tweeky

It's a tricky one, if you own the apartment you will be a part of the management company and have to on the purchase of the apartment agree to the charges and rules by law. If you rent it you will have a list of rules attached to your lease.
A communal dish installed by sky/equiv is the best bet if your current provider is poor but believe me to get people to agree is a nightmare.
Nothing makes an apartment block look crap as one with sat dishes and washing on the balcony. Talk to your neighbours but if you are all renters you have a battle on your hands.

storch

I have a reply from the management company.

Hi Mariusz, sorry for the delay in replying to you.
No satellite dishes are allowed on the facade or on the balconies of the apartments. We had some interest with Sky being introduced to the apartments but it would have been on a very strict shared dish basis.
There weren't enough takers for this so it never went ahead.