Four Eurostar trains break down simultaniously in Channel Tunnel.

Run_to_da_hills

At least if an Iarnrod Eireann train breaks down you have the option of getting off and walking to the nearest road side and sticking out your thumb. This must have been a nightmare for passengers with no light or heating. :eek:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/eurostar/6841893/Snow-Travel-chaos-as-up-to-8-ins-of-snow-falls-across-the-south.html

Ham'nd'egger

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

At least if an Iarnrod Eireann train breaks down you have the option of getting off and walking to the nearest road side and sticking out your thumb. This must have been a nightmare for passengers with no light or heating. :eek:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/eurostar/6841893/Snow-Travel-chaos-as-up-to-8-ins-of-snow-falls-across-the-south.html

I see that they are blaming the lack of snow for the failures.

rugbyman

I am in calais now. i have never seen such snow.
last night I was extremely lucky to make a hotel. the motorway was frozen ice( can that be?) The entire motorway system was gridlocked.

Watching the BBC the news is not very informative.

However to make matters worse, HM Immigration ,the ones who work on the french side, have gone on a 24 hour strike over allowances. this SEEMS to mean that the ferries canot sail.

I hope this hotel has a well stocked larder.


Regards,Rugbyman

Sponge Bob

This is the the second or third time in 20 years that the "wrong kind of snow" took out a significant portion of the UK network.

Reginald P. DuM

Can someone explain the physics of this? Why did the trains actually get stuck? A news report informed me that it was because of the difference in temperatures between outside and inside the tunnel. So very cold outside and very warm inside. WTF? My unscientific mind is searching for clues.

Sponge Bob

The contrast in temperature likely caused massive condensation and shorting of key electrical circuits Reginald.

alpha2zulu

You have to question why with one failed train down the tunnel, why they allowed train 2, 3, and 4 down aswell considering that at very least there is 5-10min gap between each and I know myself that leaving Paris the smallest gap between departures in the evening is 30minutes.

At the best of times your very aware of every little bump and sway when in the tunnel because of the pure fact your so far underground, but to be stuck without aircon there overnight must be horrendous.

BBC were talking to one guy on a train entering St.Pancras now having left Paris yesterday evening!

You have to wonder how the Eurostars have managed the cold for the past 15 years or have they got some sort electrical upgrade on board more recently?

Cookie_Monster

Tis funny though. Friend in Germany rang me last nite. travelling to a football match yesterday, no snow. by time match finished and left the pub after;) about 8 inches had fallen. No impact on trains at all...

DWCommuter

CEO of Eurostar was just on the BBC. He referred to the weather conditions as unprecedented. On the French side the trains got covered in snow. When they entered the tunnel, the 25 degree celsius heat inside caused the snow to melt rapidly and damage electrical systems on the trains.

But Im still a bit baffled by it. I mean surely it has snowed in northern france before and covered the trains and one would think that the design team would have factored in the sharp differences in temp during the winter months.

L1011

Whats even odder is that its taken 15 years for it to happen!

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote: »

Whats even odder is that its taken 15 years for it to happen!

That is odd, I agree. It may have been an exceptional gradient of perhaps as much as 40c between the outside and the middle ( -5c to +35c) that caused exceptional condensation ....and with snow dragged in to exacerbate matters.

5 trains in a row shorted out. We have confirmation from Eurostar that it was indeed condensation as I suspected

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8422305.stm

Some Eurostar passengers were transferred on to a car shuttle train (pic - Lee Godfree).

Mr Brown said the conditions caused condensation which brought about electrical problems in the tunnel.

ardmacha

Why is it so warm inside the tunnel? Heat from trains? You would expect a tunnel like a cave to smooth out temperatures, but this is warmer than my house .

Victor

The only way for heat to escape from the tunnels is at either end, so all the energy used by the trains, signalling, lighting, etc. is retained by the tunnel structure.

Run_to_da_hills

Melting ice plays havoc with Electric trains, If this Anglo French project used DMU' similar to IR's state of the art 22,000 series none of this inconvenience would have happened.

L1011

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Melting ice plays havoc with Electric trains, If this Anglo French project used DMU' similar to IR's state of the art 22,000 series none of this inconvenience would have happened.

It'd also be significantly slower to get from London to Paris, possibly slower than a plane...



As far as I know, the ventilation air in to the tunnels is heated/cooled to a certain temperature to keep it consistent inside. This, obviously has problems at certain times. But its hard to do ambient matching with heat the same way as it is with light (if you use the Lynch tunnel in Cork you'll notice the tunnel lights are darker/brighter at the ends depending on the external light).

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

It'd also be significantly slower to get from London to Paris, possibly slower than a plane...

Better late than never

SeanW

Shouldn't the sensitive electronics on these trains be insulated from condensation? Or would that be an engineering impracticality?

amacachi

MYOB wrote: »

It'd also be significantly slower to get from London to Paris, possibly slower than a plane...



As far as I know, the ventilation air in to the tunnels is heated/cooled to a certain temperature to keep it consistent inside. This, obviously has problems at certain times. But its hard to do ambient matching with heat the same way as it is with light (if you use the Lynch tunnel in Cork you'll notice the tunnel lights are darker/brighter at the ends depending on the external light).

Even in the port tunnel the difference as one exits the tunnel is ridiculous, wakes me up every morning on the bus. :pac:

alpha2zulu

Apparently another eurostar which had been carrying passengers from paris who were caught up in the Friday night delays, broke down last night in Thurrock,Kent. At least it made it through the tunnel this time!

All Eurostars for today have been cancelled

Last night, a sixth Eurostar train from Paris to London, with 750 people on board, failed at Thurrock Viaduct after it came out of the tunnel on the UK side.
Another train was sent to tow it to St Pancras but was unable to cross the viaduct in Kent, a Eurostar spokeswoman said.
Both trains returned to Ebbsfleet, which is a 10-minute journey, and the passengers were transferred to a rescue unit and returned to London.
A series of special trains had been planned overnight to transport people delayed by the chaos, but only one - destined for Paris - eventually left the station.
A Eurostar spokeswoman later said the other services were cancelled because of the adverse weather conditions.
"We have tried to run services but it's not possible," she said. "We don't want a repeat of last night."

Run_to_da_hills

Why can't they use diesel locos to haul these trains just to clear the backlog?

whosedaddy?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why can't they use diesel locos to haul these trains just to clear the backlog?

donno about ventilation in the tunnel - but diesel loco fumes might not be too healthy down there...

trellheim

There are 40+ Class 92 locos that are designed for hauling freight through the tunnel. They are probably not passed for the LGV lines though

fastrac

I believe its the complex switch over electronics that have to operate three different systems in France,Belgium and the U.K. caused the problem on all trains.New modified shields have been fitted and are currently being tested.Sounds crazy that it never happened before .

Run_to_da_hills

fastrac wrote: »

I believe its the complex switch over electronics that have to operate three different systems in France,Belgium and the U.K. caused the problem on all trains.New modified shields have been fitted and are currently being tested.Sounds crazy that it never happened before .

They are now blaiming fluffy snow for the chaos. :rolleyes: