Myers article 16th Dec

population

Do not tend to agree with Myers on much but thought this was a decent wrap up of a lot of what is wrong in Ireland

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-try-explaining-aspects-of-irish-life-to-a-german-when-youre-done-try-explaining-them-to-me-1976481.html

One qs though..... did Charles Haughey found the Provisional IRA as Myers has suggested in this article? I know he dabbled on the shadier side of Republicanism and it was a double edged sword for his political career, but to say he founded them without it ever haven been proved in court or some such surely leaves Myers open to an action???

mrtaylor1981

population wrote: »

Do not tend to agree with Myers on much but thought this was a decent wrap up of a lot of what is wrong in Ireland

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-try-explaining-aspects-of-irish-life-to-a-german-when-youre-done-try-explaining-them-to-me-1976481.html

One qs though..... did Charles Haughey found the Provisional IRA as Myers has suggested in this article? I know he dabbled on the shadier side of Republicanism and it was a double edged sword for his political career, but to say he founded them without it ever haven been proved in court or some such surely leaves Myers open to an action???

I'm no fan of Haughey, but Myers knows he can say what he likes about him as the dead cannot libel anyone.

Eutow

population wrote: »

Do not tend to agree with Myers on much but thought this was a decent wrap up of a lot of what is wrong in Ireland

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-try-explaining-aspects-of-irish-life-to-a-german-when-youre-done-try-explaining-them-to-me-1976481.html

One qs though..... did Charles Haughey found the Provisional IRA as Myers has suggested in this article? I know he dabbled on the shadier side of Republicanism and it was a double edged sword for his political career, but to say he founded them without it ever haven been proved in court or some such surely leaves Myers open to an action???

It just proves we are not capable of running our own country. People still vote on what happened in 1922, i.e lets vote Fianna Failure, they were against the treaty, and they would never vote for Fine Gael because they were pro-treaty.

population

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Haughey, but Myers knows he can say what he likes about him as the dead cannot libel anyone.

Good point, forgot about that. It is still quite a statement though no???

Nodin

population wrote: »

..... did Charles Haughey found the Provisional IRA as Myers has suggested in this article?

No, Myers is talking through his arse. I suspect that he knows full well that he is, and will waffle about actually referring to the whole Haughey/Blaney arms thing if challenged. Controversy for the sake of it as usual.

who the fug

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Haughey, but Myers knows he can say what he likes about him as the dead cannot libel anyone.

To be fair he is not the first one to raise this issue.

bmaxi

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Haughey, but Myers knows he can say what he likes about him as the dead cannot libel anyone.

Don't mean to be pedantic but did you mean "you can't libel the dead"?
As regards Haughey, it depends on how you define "Found". Did he stand up in a room and announce to a gathering, " I'm founding the Provos" probably no. Did he aid, abet and facilitate their establishment, probably yes.
I, personally, think Myers goes over the top a little sometimes but as regards this article everything he has said is public knowledge.
It is to the eternal shame of the Irish electorate that it has happened and will continue to happen until such times as we learn to hold our representatives accountable.

T runner

bmaxi wrote: »

Don't mean to be pedantic but did you mean "you can't libel the dead"?
As regards Haughey, it depends on how you define "Found". Did he stand up in a room and announce to a gathering, " I'm founding the Provos" probably no. Did he aid, abet and facilitate their establishment, probably yes.
I, personally, think Myers goes over the top a little sometimes but as regards this article everything he has said is public knowledge.
It is to the eternal shame of the Irish electorate that it has happened and will continue to happen until such times as we learn to hold our representatives accountable.

The great strenght of the German is that he will be honest and not stop working on something until it is working correctly as it should.

Fixing problems is the solution. Continually and negatively putting your country down as a substitute for trying to improve it is a vice of some Irish and something that most Germans would not condone.

The_Minister

Eutow wrote: »

It just proves we are not capable of running our own country. People still vote on what happened in 1922, i.e lets vote Fianna Failure, they were against the treaty, and they would never vote for Fine Gael because they were pro-treaty.

or
'i.e lets vote Fine Git, they were in favour of the treaty, and they would never vote Fianna Fail because they were anti-treaty.'

See how petty that reads? Just call them Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.

bmaxi

T runner wrote: »

Fixing problems is the solution. Continually and negatively putting your country down as a substitute for trying to improve it is a vice of some Irish and something that most Germans would not condone.

Are you suggesting I am guilty of this?

seamus

bmaxi wrote: »

Are you suggesting I am guilty of this?

No, Myers is. I honestly cannot read or listen to his crap any more. He's a whingebag with a pessimistic outlook. He was on newstalk a few weeks back predicting that Ireland was on the verge of total social collapse and that within a few years we would have a Nazi-like regime installed because that's all that's good enough for us.

He's a classic shock journalist - staunchley conservative (or at least he gives the impression of it), sensationalist ("all Scots are fat") and inflammatory for no reason other than it makes people want to hate him and so they want to buy the rag that he writes for.

He has it down to a tee - an Englishman with a very English accent who spends his time telling the Irish how stupid and incompetent we are, sure how could we *not* absolutely despise him?

Rest assured that Kevin Myers doesn't believe a word of what he says, though he would claim to be legitimately presenting the "taboo viewpoint".

Ignore the troll and he'll go away.

Overheal

seamus wrote: »

No, Myers is. I honestly cannot read or listen to his crap any more. He's a whingebag with a pessimistic outlook. He was on newstalk a few weeks back predicting that Ireland was on the verge of total social collapse and that within a few years we would have a Nazi-like regime installed because that's all that's good enough for us.

He's an Irish Glenn Beck so.

who the fug

seamus wrote: »

No, Myers is. I honestly cannot read or listen to his crap any more. He's a whingebag with a pessimistic outlook. He was on newstalk a few weeks back predicting that Ireland was on the verge of total social collapse and that within a few years we would have a Nazi-like regime installed because that's all that's good enough for us.

He's a classic shock journalist - staunchley conservative (or at least he gives the impression of it), sensationalist ("all Scots are fat") and inflammatory for no reason other than it makes people want to hate him and so they want to buy the rag that he writes for.

He has it down to a tee - an Englishman with a very English accent who spends his time telling the Irish how stupid and incompetent we are, sure how could we *not* absolutely despise him?

Rest assured that Kevin Myers doesn't believe a word of what he says, though he would claim to be legitimately presenting the "taboo viewpoint".

Ignore the troll and he'll go away.

Seeing as he was born to Irish parents and has spent more time in Ireland than england , never had a British passport

I makes him as irish as the President

The_Minister

Overheal wrote: »

He's an Irish Glenn Beck so.

Kevin Myers, for all his sins, is not nearly as crazy as Glenn Beck.

seamus

who the fug wrote: »

Seeing as he was born to Irish parents and has spent more time in Ireland than england , never had a British passport

I makes him as irish as the President

It's about the image though, it doesn't matter if he's Scottish, Irish, English or Pakistani.

T runner

bmaxi wrote: »

Are you suggesting I am guilty of this?

Apologies, not at all. Was actually commenting on the original article and clicked quote instead of reply. Didnt mean to quote your post at all.

I dont know much about Haughey and prov. IRA connection . Myers always has an agenda though, and is heavy with the criticism and light with realistic solutions.

For his 600,000 immigrants comment read: Myers doesnt like immigrants. I know there was a referendum on citizenship which directly affected immigrants children so immigration clearly was discussed in the dail.

His arguments are aimed to touch nerves but usually burst under any scrutiny.

T runner

who the fug wrote: »

Seeing as he was born to Irish parents and has spent more time in Ireland than england , never had a British passport

I makes him as irish as the President

That depends. If you regard being Irish as holding a Republic of Ireland passport, then everyone who does is equally Irish.

If as part of the credential you must be loyal first and foremost to your nation then Myers is Irish by virtue of his passport and British by virtue of his loyalty.

irish_bob

The_Minister wrote: »

Kevin Myers, for all his sins, is not nearly as crazy as Glenn Beck.

i havent watched fox news much in the past year , is glen beck as nutty as bill o reilly

dlofnep

seamus wrote: »

No, Myers is. I honestly cannot read or listen to his crap any more. He's a whingebag with a pessimistic outlook. He was on newstalk a few weeks back predicting that Ireland was on the verge of total social collapse and that within a few years we would have a Nazi-like regime installed because that's all that's good enough for us.

He's a classic shock journalist - staunchley conservative (or at least he gives the impression of it), sensationalist ("all Scots are fat") and inflammatory for no reason other than it makes people want to hate him and so they want to buy the rag that he writes for.

He has it down to a tee - an Englishman with a very English accent who spends his time telling the Irish how stupid and incompetent we are, sure how could we *not* absolutely despise him?

Rest assured that Kevin Myers doesn't believe a word of what he says, though he would claim to be legitimately presenting the "taboo viewpoint".

Ignore the troll and he'll go away.

That pretty much sums him up.

Kev_ps3

Eutow wrote: »

It just proves we are not capable of running our own country. People still vote on what happened in 1922, i.e lets vote Fianna Failure, they were against the treaty, and they would never vote for Fine Gael because they were pro-treaty.

West-Brit nonsense. Just because FF are idiots doesnt mean 'we cant run ourselves'.

murphaph

His test is interesting though. I just had my german girlfriend read the article and she kept saying, is that really true?

I've given up trying to explain how fcuked Ireland is. None of it makes sense to her because it doesn't make sense, full stop.

ei.sdraob

seamus wrote: »

He was on newstalk a few weeks back predicting that Ireland was on the verge of total social collapse and that within a few years we would have a Nazi-like regime installed because that's all that's good enough for us.

wouldn't he (the man with far right-wing, racist xenophobic views) just love that to happen

bmaxi

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

West-Brit nonsense. Just because FF are idiots doesnt mean 'we cant run ourselves'.

I find that a bit contradictory.
If Fianna Fáil are idiots, as you contend, then the fact they have been in power in the country for most of it's independent history, makes the original statement plausible.

Nodin

ei.sdraob wrote: »

wouldn't he (the man with far right-wing, racist xenophobic views) just love that to happen

Gruppenführer Myers, bringing order to the savage Paddys...

ei.sdraob

bmaxi wrote: »

I find that a bit contradictory.
If Fianna Fáil are idiots, as you contend, then the fact they have been in power in the country for most of it's independent history, makes the original statement plausible.

Just because FF are bad, doesnt mean that there are not worse waiting in the wings

since this thread was already Goodwinized do remember that it was the German people who elected Hitler and co, theres always worse

dan_d

He does make some excellent points.....whatever about explaining to Germans, try explaining to anyone.
However, Kevin Myers should also remember that it's very easy to be a cynic.As should all journalists.

peter_de_tool

Having lived in Germany for several years, I can tell you that Germans are all to aware of bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, under-the-table payments, red-tape, match fixing. The perception that Germany has no corruption problem has absolutely nothing to do with reality. The Germans just seem to be better at covering it up than the Irish. The German press are always calling for Scandinavian levels of transparency every time corruption is exposed. Recent events in Germany have tainted Germany's squeaky clean reputation.

ei.sdraob

peter_de_tool wrote: »

Having lived in Germany for several years, I can tell you that Germans are all to aware of bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, under-the-table payments, red-tape, match fixing. The perception that Germany has no corruption problem has absolutely nothing to do with reality. The Germans just seem to be better at covering it up than the Irish. The German press are always calling for Scandinavian levels of transparency every time corruption is exposed. Recent events in Germany have tainted Germany's squeaky clean reputation.

yeh we have our share of issues

but its not as bad as some countries

take Russia for example, journalist like himself either follow the state line or get killed

hell didnt Putin make a law that a certain % of news has to be happy news :eek:

bmaxi

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Just because FF are bad, doesnt mean that there are not worse waiting in the wings

since this thread was already Goodwinized do remember that it was the German people who elected Hitler and co, theres always worse

Germans did not elect Hitler to do what he eventually did, they elected him because he promised, and for a time delivered, a better future.
Germany, in the 1920's was a pretty grim place. Their economy was crippled and the situation was exacerbated by France, which was determined to extract every last pound of flesh in reparations. Hitler offered a way out and frankly, would probably be elected here tomorrow if he offered the same thing.

ei.sdraob

bmaxi wrote: »

Germans did not elect Hitler to do what he eventually did, they elected him because he promised, and for a time delivered, a better future.
Germany, in the 1920's was a pretty grim place. Their economy was crippled and the situation was exacerbated by France, which was determined to extract every last pound of flesh in reparations. Hitler offered a way out and frankly, would probably be elected here tomorrow if he offered the same thing.

of course they didnt

he won on a populist/nationalist policies, and he did lift the country economically by introducing national bonds and public works schemes like building the autobahns

and thats what scares me, so many countries are so ****ed up and there aint much stopping another crazy person gaining power

bmaxi

ei.sdraob wrote: »

of course they didnt

he won on a populist/nationalist policies, and he did lift the country economically by introducing national bonds and public works schemes like building the autobahns

and thats what scares me, so many countries are so ****ed up and there aint much stopping another crazy person gaining power

You don't need economic crises to have crazy people elected. George Dubya is one who springs to mind.

ei.sdraob

bmaxi wrote: »

You don't need economic crises to have crazy people elected. George Dubya is one who springs to mind.

yeh

bush did reduce taxes alot and kept interest rates low, tried make soft landing for dot com bubble etc

one of the reasons for todays mess

irish_bob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yeh we have our share of issues

but its not as bad as some countries

take Russia for example, journalist like himself either follow the state line or get killed

hell didnt Putin make a law that a certain % of news has to be happy news :eek:

and thats how most russians like it

T runner

bmaxi wrote: »

I find that a bit contradictory.
If Fianna Fáil are idiots, as you contend, then the fact they have been in power in the country for most of it's independent history, makes the original statement plausible.

Firstly " Fianna Fail are idiots" does not mean "Fianna Fail have always been idiots".

Are you suggesting that if a country elects a bad government then they are not fit to rule themselves?

That would mean that every democratic country (including the UK currently) are not fit to rule themselves.

Anyway if the UK were to subsume all of Ireland it would cost them 120 billion Euro per year and quickly bankrupt them. It would be madness.

Myers advocates the colonial attitude that we cannot solve our problems here, because we are Irish.

I think the majority of people in Ireland have moved on from this defeatist, negative and racist viewpoint and acknowledge that with the right attitude and ideas we can solve almost any problems we have.

You will usually find that the people with the "whats the point? we are useless because we are Irish" attitude are not the ones trying to solve problems or helping in society/community (naturally enough as they would see trying to solve the problems as pointless because were Irish).

Maybe they should stop using their nationality as an excuse for sitting on their arses and putting the country/ Irish people down at every oppurtunity.

tellmewhy

Well for what its worth i usually take /read Myers with a pinch of salt but in this article I think he is absolutly spot on and as was said earlier everything in the article is public knowledge ! with I suppose the exception of the Haughey thing !

who the fug

tellmewhy wrote: »

Well for what its worth i usually take /read Myers with a pinch of salt but in this article I think he is absolutly spot on and as was said earlier everything in the article is public knowledge ! with I suppose the exception of the Haughey thing !

No I think Vincent Browne through that accusation at CJ in Magill over 20 years, but is is public knowledge