Another JW dies for refusing blood...

escapethematrix

When I read this story part of me didn't want to believe it but the overwhelming part of me knew it was true.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/refusing-blood-cost-jehovahrsquos-witness-her-life-1980879.html

Being associated with Jehovah's Witnesses I understand the rigid application of the command "keep abstaining from blood". But after prayful consideration of the scripture, the context and the absurd blood "policy" I came to the realization that this interpretation is wrong. I won't go into detail but I just want to warn everyone who is studying or considering of the following things.

1) Most JWs are sincere. They truly believe they have the right and accurate "truth". They are genuine. They are highly persuasive because they are taught how to counter arguments. (There is a book published which contains the majority of frequent rebuttals). Every week they have a meeting designed at improving their presentations.
2) They believe without question everything that is provided to them by the Faithful and Discrete slave, a group of men who intepret and dictate how scripture should be applied. They are not allowed to question or debate the logic behind this. They are to accept it as if Jesus Christ himself had spoken the words. Jehovh's witnesses believe this group of men sit between Jesus and the rank and file members.
3) They put this organization above their own flesh and blood. They will shun, ignore, treat as dead ANYONE even their son, daugher, brother and sister if they leave the organization.
4) The history of the organization is that of continual change of doctrine. The hide this behind the scripture "the light is getting brighter". Their beliefs have flip flopped (at one stage blood transfusions were even allowed...) Certain parts of the history are updated in later publications to conseal or misdirect people so they conclude the religion has always been progressive.
5) The organization teachs that salvation comes through a combination of faith and works. To be a JW you must submit a report on how many hours you spend in the "preaching" work. You are continually admonished that you should be doing more ministry.
6) They believe every other religion is part of "Babylon the great" as depicted in the book of Revalation. All other religions and people belonging to these religions will be killed. Only JWs and those who have already died will form part of a paradise earth that will be establised after Armagedon.
7) If you are part of this organization, your life will be dictated to you. Perhaps subtly but the control starts with, regular meeting attendance (two times a week), regular ministry service. You must not have a beard, you must not have a tatoo, you must not eat certain types of food. If you have a child, he/she should not spend time with other kids who are not part of the congregation. No football after school. Third level education is discouraged.
8) Their message is often consoling to those who have lost loved ones and provides more detail than mainstream churches. This means the vulnerable, those who are depressed, who have lost loved ones will often be drawn to this religion.

I was part of this organization for many years. I've seen it split up families. I've seen it disappoint and fail to deliver many times. I've seen hypocrisy to the highest level. I've seen people blindly follow things that make no sense. Even people who I considered intelligent.

Unfortunately for those already in the religion it is very difficult to get out. Many disconnect themselves from the outside world. Many of them have to make the decision to lose their family is they chose to leave. To seperate yourself from a belief system that is beat into EVERY week is exceptionally hard. Most JWs don't believe they are going to die (just like the generations before them...).

Escapethematrix

Perhaps one of the mods could change the title from JW to Jehovah's Witness??

Zombrex

very sad, but if it was her wishes they should be respected.

having said that I think the nonsense needs to be challenged every step of the way. Religion and other supernatural beliefs get free passes in society and that unfortunately leads to things like this.

escapethematrix

Wicknight wrote: »

very sad, but if it was her wishes they should be respected.

A valid point but in a high control group like this it really isn't her own choice. Her mind has been made up already.

If she takes the blood transfusion the following will happen.

1) She most likely will die in Armageddon (the end of the wicked world, mankind in general, with the exception of JWs) and not be entitled to a resurrection as God will punish her for not dying in order to keep his "law".
2) The congregation will disfellowship her. Her friends will no longer have anything to do with her.They will ignore her as if she was dead.
3) Her family in the religion will likewise treat her the same. While her husband from a bible standpoint will still provide, the congregation would accept him seperating from his wife (not divorcing however).
4) If she took a blood transfusion the overwhelming guilt would live with her for her entire life.
5) To come back to the congregation she will have to sit at the back of the kingdom hall, where she will not be talked to by anyone except a few elected elders who are dealing with the case. They will decide when they believe she is ready to rejoin the congregation.

In this situation it is impossible for a Jehovah's Witness to have an objective view point. They don't make a decision based on the facts or even proper understanding of scripture. At this incredibly difficult time there is a group of men elders who are part of the "Hospital Liason Committee" who are around speaking to doctors on behalf of the patient. They will continue to minister the "blood policy" to reinforce the belief in the patients mind that you are doing the right thing.

Zombrex

escapethematrix wrote: »

A valid point but in a high control group like this it really isn't her own choice. Her mind has been made up already.

If she takes the blood transfusion the following will happen.

1) She most likely will die in Armageddon (the end of the wicked world, mankind in general, with the exception of JWs) and not be entitled to a resurrection as God will punish her for not dying in order to keep his "law".
2) The congregation will disfellowship her. Her friends will no longer have anything to do with her.They will ignore her as if she was dead.
3) Her family in the religion will likewise treat her the same. While her husband from a bible standpoint will still provide, the congregation would accept him seperating from his wife (not divorcing however).
4) If she took a blood transfusion the overwhelming guilt would live with her for her entire life.
5) To come back to the congregation she will have to sit at the back of the kingdom hall, where she will not be talked to by anyone except a few elected elders who are dealing with the case. They will decide when they believe she is ready to rejoin the congregation.

In this situation it is impossible for a Jehovah's Witness to have an objective view point. They don't make a decision based on the facts or even proper understanding of scripture. At this incredibly difficult time there is a group of men elders who are part of the "Hospital Liason Committee" who are around speaking to doctors on behalf of the patient. They will continue to minister the "blood policy" to reinforce the belief in the patients mind that you are doing the right thing.

That is why the beliefs should be challenged, rather than the State simply assuming they can't make their own decisions and making the decisions for them. That is a slippy slope. I'm an atheist, most of the government would be Christians. I think their belief in Jesus and the resurrection etc is as nuts as the JW belief in blood transfusions. It becomes rather subjective when it comes to who has the correct beliefs.

The best way to go about countering this sort of thing is with more information. Give the JWs the other side of the story and let them make up their own mind.

Gurgle

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm an atheist, most of the government would be Christians. I think their belief in Jesus and the resurrection etc is as nuts as the JW belief in blood transfusions. It becomes rather subjective when it comes to who has the correct beliefs.

The best way to go about countering this sort of thing is with more information. Give the JWs the other side of the story and let them make up their own mind.

I don't think its an 'information' issue - like every other religion JWs are taught what to believe and how they should live their life. They aren't stupid people, they know about blood transfusions and that most of the world have no issue with them.

Everyone has the right to refuse medical care at any stage. I don't accept the 'mentally fit' case(utterly ridiculous when applied by other religious people with slightly differing beliefs).I fully believe they should be allowed to make their own decisions, including death rather than a transfusion if they so desire.

My big problem with JW and their views on modern medicine is when they try to apply it to children. This should be enshrined in law, not a case by case high court order, that children who require a life saving blood transfusion will get it regardless of their parents objections. The beliefs of one person cannot ever be applied to the detriment of another.

escapethematrix

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't think its an 'information' issue - like every other religion JWs are taught what to believe and how they should live their life. They aren't stupid people, they know about blood transfusions and that most of the world have no issue with them.

Everyone has the right to refuse medical care at any stage. I don't accept the 'mentally fit' case(utterly ridiculous when applied by other religious people with slightly differing beliefs).I fully believe they should be allowed to make their own decisions, including death rather than a transfusion if they so desire.

My big problem with JW and their views on modern medicine is when they try to apply it to children. This should be enshrined in law, not a case by case high court order, that children who require a life saving blood transfusion will get it regardless of their parents objections. The beliefs of one person cannot ever be applied to the detriment of another.

Yes. It is terrible to insist that a child, a minor face death before being able to make an informed, decision based on all the information...

Another aspect of being a child growing up in the Jehovah's witnesses organization is baptism. The society baptises children who in some cases haven't even reached their teens. Big deal you might say... However if that child/teenager commits sin, such as having sex, they can be disfellowshipped. This action disconnects them from all friends and family. You cannot say that a child younger than 18 can make a life changing decision, contractual in some ways. If you realise at 18 it isn't the "truth" you cannot leave the organization without being rejected by your family and friends. You whole social network is destroyed. I cannot emphasize how brutally cruel this is. Simply because you no longer believe something that you agreed to when you were 12 years old you are cut off. Those relationships can never be re-established unless you agree to be a JW again.

Cookie_Monster

see After Hours for a fuller (slightly more immoral) thread

wolfsbane

escapethematrix wrote: »

When I read this story part of me didn't want to believe it but the overwhelming part of me knew it was true.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/refusing-blood-cost-jehovahrsquos-witness-her-life-1980879.html

Being associated with Jehovah's Witnesses I understand the rigid application of the command "keep abstaining from blood". But after prayful consideration of the scripture, the context and the absurd blood "policy" I came to the realization that this interpretation is wrong. I won't go into detail but I just want to warn everyone who is studying or considering of the following things.

1) Most JWs are sincere. They truly believe they have the right and accurate "truth". They are genuine. They are highly persuasive because they are taught how to counter arguments. (There is a book published which contains the majority of frequent rebuttals). Every week they have a meeting designed at improving their presentations.
2) They believe without question everything that is provided to them by the Faithful and Discrete slave, a group of men who intepret and dictate how scripture should be applied. They are not allowed to question or debate the logic behind this. They are to accept it as if Jesus Christ himself had spoken the words. Jehovh's witnesses believe this group of men sit between Jesus and the rank and file members.
3) They put this organization above their own flesh and blood. They will shun, ignore, treat as dead ANYONE even their son, daugher, brother and sister if they leave the organization.
4) The history of the organization is that of continual change of doctrine. The hide this behind the scripture "the light is getting brighter". Their beliefs have flip flopped (at one stage blood transfusions were even allowed...) Certain parts of the history are updated in later publications to conseal or misdirect people so they conclude the religion has always been progressive.
5) The organization teachs that salvation comes through a combination of faith and works. To be a JW you must submit a report on how many hours you spend in the "preaching" work. You are continually admonished that you should be doing more ministry.
6) They believe every other religion is part of "Babylon the great" as depicted in the book of Revalation. All other religions and people belonging to these religions will be killed. Only JWs and those who have already died will form part of a paradise earth that will be establised after Armagedon.
7) If you are part of this organization, your life will be dictated to you. Perhaps subtly but the control starts with, regular meeting attendance (two times a week), regular ministry service. You must not have a beard, you must not have a tatoo, you must not eat certain types of food. If you have a child, he/she should not spend time with other kids who are not part of the congregation. No football after school. Third level education is discouraged.
8) Their message is often consoling to those who have lost loved ones and provides more detail than mainstream churches. This means the vulnerable, those who are depressed, who have lost loved ones will often be drawn to this religion.

I was part of this organization for many years. I've seen it split up families. I've seen it disappoint and fail to deliver many times. I've seen hypocrisy to the highest level. I've seen people blindly follow things that make no sense. Even people who I considered intelligent.

Unfortunately for those already in the religion it is very difficult to get out. Many disconnect themselves from the outside world. Many of them have to make the decision to lose their family is they chose to leave. To seperate yourself from a belief system that is beat into EVERY week is exceptionally hard. Most JWs don't believe they are going to die (just like the generations before them...).

Escapethematrix

Perhaps one of the mods could change the title from JW to Jehovah's Witness??

Thank you for that very helpful summary. I am so glad you have escaped the delusion and I also sense your compassion for those still caught up in it.

Yes, man's nature always puts something in the place of God, and we love to contribute to our own salvation. The gospel of faith + works = salvation characterises false religion.

Have you heard anything of the big crisis that hit the JW HQ in Brooklyn in the 70's? I remember reading an account from some involved. They had been meeting for Bible study, in the usual way - studying the official notes rather than the Bible itself. But it developed into a proper Bible study and the differences between what the Bible said and what was the official line hit them hard. They brought their queries up to the President and his colleagues. End result - dis-fellowship of many. The crisis even had an impact in Ireland, if my memory serves me.

May I ask where you are in your spiritual life now?