The pineal gland conspiracy

espinolman

mysterious wrote: »

Society ensures our pineal glands are clogged too, which plays a vital role in accesssing and gaining awareness of the higher realms of knowing and existence.

I am interested in the above and why is that being done ?

Anyone know anything about this ?

RoboClam

This all comes back to the "evils" of water fluoridation. I'm probably wasting my time showing you any research because in the other thread you essentially said you would dismiss any funded research.

The "clogged" part of the quote is probably referring to the calcification of the pineal gland. This is true, in old age it is a far less active gland than during childhood. Pre-puberty it releases a large amount of melatonin. This calcification is a natural part of old age and happened before the fluoridation of water (I should also mention that pre-fluoridation pretty much all natural water sources contained varying levels of fluorine). It happens to this gland and not the brain for example, due to the fact that it is not protected by the blood brain barrier.

http://www.icnr.com/jluke/fluoridedeposition.html

[FONT=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]the pineal has a profuse blood flow and high capillary density; pineal blood flow (4 ml/min/g) is second only to the kidney [Arendt, 19951.[/FONT]

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S019745800500223X

These changes in previous termpinealnext term innervation may result in the known loss of functional sympathetic input which has been reported in aged rats [31], [34] and [41], particularly in female rats [68], and in humans [61]. Consequences of melatonin deficiency include possible defects in the duration and quality of sleep, desynchronization of the circadian rhythm and possible loss of an antioxidative effect [26], [27], [40], [63] and [66].

Saying that society is "clogging" the gland is a incorrect. Mysterious claims to "Have his eyes open" to the world. I'd bet that an examination of his pineal gland would reveal calcification too! Ironically, literally having your eyes open inhibits the production of melatonin in your body, which is what the gland produces.

Next, "accesssing and gaining awareness of the higher realms of knowing and existence". Well what can I say to this really? There is no evidence for it. Anyone who claims this has never properly examined the gland. It seems to really just be an idea taken from the likes of Descatrtes (1596 – 1650) which is hardly a current source.

Nothing I say will convince you that this is not true, simply because the claim is unfalsifiable. You could say the nose can smell the 16th dimension and I wouldn't be able to disprove it. This is known as a Negative proof fallacy " Because a premise cannot be proven false, the premise must be true", which is absurd. Testing has not (and could not) determine any magical function to this gland.

It produces melatonin, sadly that is not exciting enough for some people.

PirateShampoo

Very well said there RoboClam.

Also the pineal gland plays a large role in discordianism, so I imagine a lot of the mysticism about it comes from there.

But seeing as how they're Discordians they're most likely ****ing with you.

mysterious

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50407
Lots of pages on it and lots of people are now aware of it.

I will post's my thoughts later.

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50407

Great post universal_, as you can see from my avatar I have been breast fed and i am lucky that I have grown up and lost my corporative skin.

Best sentence ever

mysterious

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Best sentence ever

Natural.... is always the way

studiorat

huh-huh he said pineal gland. :pac:

espinolman

RoboClam wrote: »

Testing has not (and could not) determine any magical function to this gland.

.

So does only the physical exist to you , the phyical is creation and the spirit is creative , so how could you measure and test the spiritual - you cannot , it like you have an equation and you are dead set on ignoring one side of the equation .

PirateShampoo

espinolman wrote: »

So does only the physical exist to you , the phyical is creation and the spirit is creative , so how could you measure and test the spiritual - you cannot , it like you have an equation and you are dead set on ignoring one side of the equation .

And if it cant be measure and tested, how do you know the spiritual is there?

I belive in Unicorns does that make me anymore wrong than you?

RoboClam

espinolman wrote: »

So does only the physical exist to you , the phyical is creation and the spirit is creative , so how could you measure and test the spiritual - you cannot , it like you have an equation and you are dead set on ignoring one side of the equation .

The "physical" can be tested. It can be proven. The "spirit" relies on the supernatural and cannot be proven as it is beyond what science can prove through observation and testing. By definition, something that is unfalsifiable is not within the realms of science. Belief in the supernatural is not science as there is no crossover between the two and I would not pretend that there is one.

So I am ignoring nothing. I believe what I can test and what can be tested. Spirituality is neither testable nor observable. You rely on folklore and stories to prove your opinions while I rely on fact.

Believe what you will.

Kama

Spirituality is neither testable nor observable.

I'm not so sure on this. Take a spiritual system, Buddhism is the easiest example for this argument. There are a series of instructions you perform, such as mettabhavana, which you repeat, under a variety of conditions. You obtain a result, and check with peers who are performing the same/similar experiment, and share or compare results.



All the same, a parietal eye is on my wish-list for upgrades, along with a prehensile tail and another pair of thumbs

RoboClam

Kama wrote: »

I'm not so sure on this. Take a spiritual system, Buddhism is the easiest example for this argument. There are a series of instructions you perform, such as mettabhavana, which you repeat, under a variety of conditions. You obtain a result, and check with peers who are performing the same/similar experiment, and share or compare results.

Well, I'm not going to pretend to know anything about mettabhavana. But I'd be interested to know more, so hit me up with a pm if you don't mind (I may seem like an a**hole in the following post but I'd honestly like to know more about this).

I think I understand what you're saying here, but in fairness, you are kinda taking what I said out of context. I could easily observe someone praying (in the christian religion for example).

I could ask if they were talking to God and they would say yes/no. This is an observation, but their answer is simply hearsay, or anecdotal. It is not evidence and cannot be falsified. You say that the results are checked by their peers.. Well frankly I'd like to hear more from you before I make a definitive statement. But at the risk of an ad hominem statement, I will say that perhaps the "peers" are not adhering to any strict regulations (please correct my if I'm wrong with references).

My point in the post above yours is that science cannot deal with the supernatural. It's like asking a black and white TV to show colour.

People can have their own beliefs, I am happy for them to believe what they will, but belief and proof are totally different.

aurelius79

RoboClam wrote: »

The "physical" can be tested. It can be proven. The "spirit" relies on the supernatural and cannot be proven as it is beyond what science can prove through observation and testing. By definition, something that is unfalsifiable is not within the realms of science. Belief in the supernatural is not science as there is no crossover between the two and I would not pretend that there is one.

So I am ignoring nothing. I believe what I can test and what can be tested. Spirituality is neither testable nor observable. You rely on folklore and stories to prove your opinions while I rely on fact.

Believe what you will.

Practitioners of ritual magic would beg to differ. People like Aleister Crowley used ritual magic as a pseudo-scientific method to enable him to project his willpower. Ritual magic uses sound, sight, touch, smell and taste in an attempt to unlock the potential of the mind.

As we all know, certain sounds or colors can invoke a certain mood. Aromatherapy is based on the knowledge that certain smells invoke a reaction in the body or mind. When you combine all these things with intense concentration, it is believed you can manipulate the energy around you with your mind.

It is believed that this practice has been hidden away from the public in an attempt to limit the average person's ability to enhance the power of his or her mind. This is why ritual magic has been branded as Satanic and evil. It is to keep the masses ignorant of the true power of the mind.

There are a select few who may have the power to alter the world around them without the need for ritual magic, as there are a few people who can solve complex mathematical equations in their head.

If one has the ability to suspend disbelief and to concentrate their willpower, I don't think you could limit the capabilities of the mind. The penial gland may be the physical manifestation or even the source of one's willpower.

aurelius79

aurelius79 wrote: »

Practitioners of ritual magic would beg to differ. People like Aleister Crowley used ritual magic as a pseudo-scientific method to enable him to project his willpower. Ritual magic uses sound, sight, touch, smell and taste in an attempt to unlock the potential of the mind.

As we all know, certain sounds or colors can invoke a certain mood. Aromatherapy is based on the knowledge that certain smells invoke a reaction in the body or mind. When you combine all these things with intense concentration, it is believed you can manipulate the energy around you with your mind.

It is believed that this practice has been hidden away from the public in an attempt to limit the average person's ability to enhance the power of his or her mind. This is why ritual magic has been branded as Satanic and evil. It is to keep the masses ignorant of the true power of the mind.

By what mechanism does the willpower manifest exactly?

aurelius79 wrote: »

There are a select few who may have the power to alter the world around them without the need for ritual magic, as there are a few people who can solve complex mathematical equations in their head.

ANd how do you know this exactly?
Has anyone ever show beyond doubt they have such an ability?

aurelius79 wrote: »

If one has the ability to suspend disbelief and to concentrate their willpower, I don't think you could limit the capabilities of the mind.

Suspension of disbelief or suspension of critical thinking?
Seems to me that suspending your disbelief leads to such like confirmation biases, apophenia and selective thinking.

There's a million dollars for you if you can show that someone can do magic under test conditions that exclude cheating and cognitive biases.

aurelius79 wrote: »

The penial gland may be the physical manifestation or even the source of one's willpower.

No the pineal gland is a gland that produces melatonin and regulates your sleep pattern and stuff.
Willpower comes form the pre-motor cortex apparently.

Saying that the pineal gland is the source of willpower is pretty much the same as saying your sense of self perseveration comes from you pancreas.

RoboClam

aurelius79 wrote: »

Practitioners of ritual magic would beg to differ. People like Aleister Crowley used ritual magic as a pseudo-scientific method to enable him to project his willpower. Ritual magic uses sound, sight, touch, smell and taste in an attempt to unlock the potential of the mind.

As we all know, certain sounds or colors can invoke a certain mood. Aromatherapy is based on the knowledge that certain smells invoke a reaction in the body or mind. When you combine all these things with intense concentration, it is believed you can manipulate the energy around you with your mind.

It is believed that this practice has been hidden away from the public in an attempt to limit the average person's ability to enhance the power of his or her mind. This is why ritual magic has been branded as Satanic and evil. It is to keep the masses ignorant of the true power of the mind.

There are a select few who may have the power to alter the world around them without the need for ritual magic, as there are a few people who can solve complex mathematical equations in their head.

If one has the ability to suspend disbelief and to concentrate their willpower, I don't think you could limit the capabilities of the mind. The penial gland may be the physical manifestation or even the source of one's willpower.

You make many assumptions here. The mind did not evolve to perform the tasks which you claim it can. As I stated, the penial gland is nothing special in respect to any other part of our body. Perhaps your are just ignoring my links?

We are the most evolved and extraordinary species on earth, but we are not able to "manipulate the energy around you with your mind". If you could do this, James Randi might have to write a cheque for 1 million dollars with your name on it.

The brain is fantastic. Currently it is so unimaginably brilliant that we cannot fully understand it. But please, don't assume that it is not understandable.

RoboClam

King Mob wrote: »

There's a million dollars for you if you can show that someone can do magic under test conditions that exclude cheating and cognitive biases.
.

Haha, This was not planned! Hey maybe our pineal glands were fluctuating in sync?

koHd

RoboClam wrote: »

This all comes back to the "evils" of water fluoridation. I'm probably wasting my time showing you any research because in the other thread you essentially said you would dismiss any funded research.

The "clogged" part of the quote is probably referring to the calcification of the pineal gland. This is true, in old age it is a far less active gland than during childhood. Pre-puberty it releases a large amount of melatonin. This calcification is a natural part of old age and happened before the fluoridation of water (I should also mention that pre-fluoridation pretty much all natural water sources contained varying levels of fluorine). It happens to this gland and not the brain for example, due to the fact that it is not protected by the blood brain barrier.

http://www.icnr.com/jluke/fluoridedeposition.html


http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S019745800500223X




Saying that society is "clogging" the gland is a incorrect. Mysterious claims to "Have his eyes open" to the world. I'd bet that an examination of his pineal gland would reveal calcification too! Ironically, literally having your eyes open inhibits the production of melatonin in your body, which is what the gland produces.

Next, "accesssing and gaining awareness of the higher realms of knowing and existence". Well what can I say to this really? There is no evidence for it. Anyone who claims this has never properly examined the gland. It seems to really just be an idea taken from the likes of Descatrtes (1596 – 1650) which is hardly a current source.

Nothing I say will convince you that this is not true, simply because the claim is unfalsifiable. You could say the nose can smell the 16th dimension and I wouldn't be able to disprove it. This is known as a Negative proof fallacy " Because a premise cannot be proven false, the premise must be true", which is absurd. Testing has not (and could not) determine any magical function to this gland.

It produces melatonin, sadly that is not exciting enough for some people.

I think I love you.

aurelius79

RoboClam wrote: »

You make many assumptions here. The mind did not evolve to perform the tasks which you claim it can. As I stated, the penial gland is nothing special in respect to any other part of our body. Perhaps your are just ignoring my links?

We are the most evolved and extraordinary species on earth, but we are not able to "manipulate the energy around you with your mind". If you could do this, James Randi might have to write a cheque for 1 million dollars with your name on it.

I'm not making assumptions whatsoever. I am merely relaying common beliefs regarding ritual magic.

"but we are not able to "manipulate the energy around you with your mind"".

This is what I mean by suspension of disbelief. You are absolutely sure that you cannot manipulate energy with the mind. That is why you will never be able to do so.

We are taught from a very young age that we are unable to do many things. There are people with such strong willpower that they are able to shed these false constraints and do the "impossible".

RoboClam wrote: »

The brain is fantastic. Currently it is so unimaginably brilliant that we cannot fully understand it. But please, don't assume that it is not understandable.

I have never claimed it is not understandable. On the contrary, I believe it is very possible. It is you who claims that certain things cannot be done. I believe in infinite possibility.

aurelius79

aurelius79 wrote: »

I'm not making assumptions whatsoever. I am merely relaying common beliefs regarding ritual magic.

"but we are not able to "manipulate the energy around you with your mind"".

This is what I mean by suspension of disbelief. You are absolutely sure that you cannot manipulate energy with the mind. That is why you will never be able to do so.

We are taught from a very young age that we are unable to do many things. There are people with such strong willpower that they are able to shed these false constraints and do the "impossible".

We are also told we cannot make a unicorn jump out of our ass.

I wager that you absolutely sure that you cannot do this.

There are people with such strong willpower that they are able to shed these false constraints and do the "impossible".
You do believe in infinite possibility, right?

Can you see the flaw in your logic?

The question remains is the any person who has been able to demonstrate these magical abilities under conditions that exclude the chance they are cheating or fooling themselves?

RoboClam

I'm not making assumptions whatsoever. I am merely relaying common beliefs regarding ritual magic.

OK, but as I'm sure you can understand, common belief does not equate to what is correct. For example, the cannibalism of human brains in papua new guinea was a tradition among locals. Sure, they thought it did them no harm. Oh wait, there is an infectious prion (Basically infectious protein) disease called kuru disease that originates from this practice! Oh no, many people died!

My point is that just because it is old and a ritual does not mean it is correct.

"but we are not able to "manipulate the energy around you with your mind"".

This is what I mean by suspension of disbelief. You are absolutely sure that you cannot manipulate energy with the mind. That is why you will never be able to do so.

I feel like a broken record, but science does not delve into the supernatural, so I shall not either. As has been said, if you can do what you say, James Randi will make you a millionaire.

We are taught from a very young age that we are unable to do many things. There are people with such strong willpower that they are able to shed these false constraints and do the "impossible".

So you're saying that everything we think is wrong. Everything we can test is wrong. How about the WMAP, maybe the origin of the universe is wrong. Maybe thermodynamics is wrong, maybe gravity is wrong, maybe electromagnetisim is wrong. Maybe. Or maybe what YOU are saying is wrong. Maybe you cannot back up what you are saying?

I have never claimed it is not understandable. On the contrary, I believe it is very possible. It is you who claims that certain things cannot be done. I believe in infinite possibility.

I do not think you understand infinite possibilities. I would encourage you to freely think about any possibilities that may exist. However not all possibilities are equally likely to occur.

We both have a brain that has evolved to serve a purpose. MRI scans of the brain have determined functionality in all parts of the brain. We are NOT using 10% of our brain (which is a common misconception). There are no "untapped" regions of our brain which we need only open our mind to.

Allow me to give you an example. Imagine a man who was blind from birth, In the year 2012 (Oh no the world will end if I type any more!) he is 40 years old. A technology is developed that will restore his sight. Now try to imagine what he will see if his sight is fully restored....

You can't. He would not be able to interpret the visual stimuli because his brain has not been programmed to do so. Therefore, even if there was some magical part of the brain that is being suppressed (big if), then we would not even have the mental ability to interpret the input signals as our neurons would not have been wired to accept such a signal from early childhood.

Please, don't just SAY that I'm wrong. Prove it somehow. I will back up anything that I have said (however I cannot provide a peer reviewed source on the hypothetical blind man scenario).