Looking for Feedback on Training Plan

kennyb3

Would really appreciate any feedback on the attached training plan. A brief history of where im at:

-my 1st race was a 5k in may 2009 - 19:40, then got an achilles injury and missed most of the summer so took up cycling.

-Then did the Dublin half marathon in 1hr 34

-Picked up a peroneal tendon injury just after as stupidly did my longest run ever 2 days after the half (was trying to squeeze them in pre DCM)

- Back running since 28th October, took it softly softly, did Jingle Bells 5k and ran 19:50 despite not being in good shape.

- Probably only averaged 20-25miles pw when i ve not been injured

So here is where i want to get to in the short to medium:

- 18:40 for 5k soon enough

- close to 40 for 10k (i reckon id run 42mins if i did one tomorrow) and under it mid/late summer

- mileage up to 35mpw

drafted up the above training plan losely from reading 'Road Racing for Serious Runners' by P & D, as changed to suit when i know i can get runs done etc.

so advice appreciated. will use xmas and jan to slowly increase mpw.

Brian

Woddle

Pretty much all your info is identical to mine only I'm still wasting my time on one last marathon.

I think your schedule looks good, the only thing I would change is I no longer see the point of running for 3 miles, what I mean is your in your gear and you've decided to go out so why not make it 5 miles.

I've done sth similar and it's just a habit now, the only time I would do a 3 miler is if I'm lucky to have got out at all.

Other than that I like it, just be controlled and don't over do the VO2 sessions as they can make you quite tired for the rest of the week, I used to think I was deadly doing my 400s on a Tuesday, little recovery blah blah and then ruining the rest of the week with tirdness.
Keep up the good work, I think I'll make you a target for me in our next race

Abhainn

heh there kennyb if you are concentrating on improving your time over 5k to 10k then I think you need to replace your 1k repeats with 300's to 500's.
To make it more interesting you could alternated the distances from week to week.
Don't get me wrong 1k repeats are great, but I think are designed more towards longer distance races. I'd up the long run to 12 miles also.

bazman

It's good as a 1 week schedule, but since it's only 1 week I wouldn't really call it a 'plan'.
You should put together a plan for the next 3 months, building in progression (i.e. either longer or faster sessions), introducting variety for your Tuesday session (e.g. 6x800m, 4x1k, 10x400m), and targeting races so you can peak & taper appropriately.
I've attached a plan I put together quickly for a friend of mine, which worked well for him - I'm not an expert, so if you've a good book it probably has a good plan within.
Only other comment is I would be targeting faster pace runs - if you're hitting 4:45 on long runs, you should be well able to hit 4:00 on tempo. Use heart rate monitor to verify for your first few weeks to get to know your body & it's limits.

tisnotover

Looks like your times are very similar to where I was at start of summer. Have a look at the spreadsheet I have at the start of the following log...It may give you some ideas. The mileage you have in mind is what I was doing through the summer.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719344

kennyb3

Thanks to you all. will have a good read later.

Abhainn, im going to be lazy (altho will read up on it later) and ask - I presume it would be 10x400m (as in bazman's schedule) in order to still get a similar amount of time at 95 to 98% of Vo2 max? and given this would they still be at the same pace or a faster one?

kennyb3

bazman wrote: »

It's good as a 1 week schedule, but since it's only 1 week I wouldn't really call it a 'plan'.
You should put together a plan for the next 3 months, building in progression (i.e. either longer or faster sessions), introducting variety for your Tuesday session (e.g. 6x800m, 4x1k, 10x400m), and targeting races so you can peak & taper appropriately.
I've attached a plan I put together quickly for a friend of mine, which worked well for him - I'm not an expert, so if you've a good book it probably has a good plan within.
Only other comment is I would be targeting faster pace runs - if you're hitting 4:45 on long runs, you should be well able to hit 4:00 on tempo. Use heart rate monitor to verify for your first few weeks to get to know your body & it's limits.

thanks i guess its not a plan as such. more did it as something to slap on the fridge as motivation and so the OH knows whats to be done!

appreciate the attachment though, works a bit better. will mess around with it to suit myself

Racing Flat

1k warm up, 4 x 1k intervals, 3 x 0.5k recovery jog in between, 1.5k warm down


Just a comment on this - I'd do at least 15-20mins warm up prior to doing intervals.


Also, if you're doing 2 sessions a week, why not space them out a bit more, e.g. Tues and Friday rather than Tuesday and Thursday?

shels4ever

Racing Flat wrote: »

1k warm up, 4 x 1k intervals, 3 x 0.5k recovery jog in between, 1.5k warm down


Just a comment on this - I'd do at least 15-20mins warm up prior to doing intervals.


Also, if you're doing 2 sessions a week, why not space them out a bit more, e.g. Tues and Friday rather than Tuesday and Thursday?

Its also a good way to get the miles up, I find i need at least 2 miles to warm up before a session in this weather.

kennyb3

Racing Flat wrote: »

1k warm up, 4 x 1k intervals, 3 x 0.5k recovery jog in between, 1.5k warm down


Just a comment on this - I'd do at least 15-20mins warm up prior to doing intervals.


Also, if you're doing 2 sessions a week, why not space them out a bit more, e.g. Tues and Friday rather than Tuesday and Thursday?

2 good points, first one taken on board i guess my answer to second one was that i like to do my long run on sat and was thinking tempo on friday night might leave me tired. could switch intervals to monday though. Thanks

Brian

Racing Flat

kennyb3 wrote: »

2 good points, first one taken on board i guess my answer to second one was that i like to do my long run on sat and was thinking tempo on friday night might leave me tired. could switch intervals to monday though. Thanks

Brian

Fair enough - I forgot about the long run. But when I used to do Tues, Thurs, Sat for interval, tempo, long run, I used to strugle a bit. Mon, Thurs, Sat seems to work better, but I suppose it depends hopw hard the long run is. When you're new long runs are like hard sessions, with more experience I think the long runs are more like an easy run, just longer if that makes sense...

One other thing - are you doing 500m jog recovery after the intervals - that would probably be 2.5 - 3 mins or so? I'd have thought 90secs to 2 mins might be enough, but down to what works for you I suppose.

kennyb3

Racing Flat wrote: »

Fair enough - I forgot about the long run. But when I used to do Tues, Thurs, Sat for interval, tempo, long run, I used to strugle a bit. Mon, Thurs, Sat seems to work better, but I suppose it depends hopw hard the long run is. When you're new long runs are like hard sessions, with more experience I think the long runs are more like an easy run, just longer if that makes sense....

yeah makes sense alright they feel that way now, couldnt say the same 6 months ago. thats why i ll keep the long run at 10miles before working it up a bit from Feb onwards. key is not to overdo it and get injured again for me.

Racing Flat wrote: »

One other thing - are you doing 500m jog recovery after the intervals - that would probably be 2.5 - 3 mins or so? I'd have thought 90secs to 2 mins might be enough, but down to what works for you I suppose.

yeah starting off with that recovery and will work my way down. using this to start as P&D book suggests 50% to 90% of time spent running the interval. also this way i ll make sure i do all teh sets i.e to start i see it being better doing 4*1k and doing them all with longer recovery than 2 and giving up knackered. thanks though - i will hopefully get the recovery down

tergat

kennyb3 wrote: »

Would really appreciate any feedback on the attached training plan. A brief history of where im at:

-my 1st race was a 5k in may 2009 - 19:40, then got an achilles injury and missed most of the summer so took up cycling.

-Then did the Dublin half marathon in 1hr 34

-Picked up a peroneal tendon injury just after as stupidly did my longest run ever 2 days after the half (was trying to squeeze them in pre DCM)

- Back running since 28th October, took it softly softly, did Jingle Bells 5k and ran 19:50 despite not being in good shape.

- Probably only averaged 20-25miles pw when i ve not been injured

So here is where i want to get to in the short to medium:

- 18:40 for 5k soon enough

- close to 40 for 10k (i reckon id run 42mins if i did one tomorrow) and under it mid/late summer

- mileage up to 35mpw

drafted up the above training plan losely from reading 'Road Racing for Serious Runners' by P & D, as changed to suit when i know i can get runs done etc.

so advice appreciated. will use xmas and jan to slowly increase mpw.

Brian

kennyb3,

A would like you to structure your week like this:

Mon- Long Tempo 4-6 miles (Keep controlled and go by feel. See bit below for paces)

Tue- 4-5 miles easy

Wed- 6 miles easy & 4-8*60m short hill sprints with 2-3 mins walk back recovery

Thur- Alernate every other week 1) CV Rep workout (CURRENT 5km pace per km + 8-12 secs) about 6km worth of rep is good for you with 90 secs jog recovery and follow it with 2-4*200m @ CURRENT 1500m pace with 90 secs jog recovery. So workout looks like 6*1km with 90 secs jog followed by 2-4*200m. For a 20.00 min 5km runner they would do the 1km's in 4.08-4.12.

Fri- Rest

Sat- Long Run 10 miles over hills

Sun- 4-5 miles easy & 6-8*100m strides

A few points:

1) Stay away from vo2/race pace work for the next 6-8 weeks until you develop a strong endurance base and stay injury free. You need to focus on some more volume and strive for consistancy in your training. Your bodt needs to be strong before it can handle harder workouts and races, be patient.

2) About CV Reps (CV is set at 90% of VO2 max or 92% of Max HR and thus it constitutes a strong pace for improving endurance. It does elevate maximum lactate steady steady of ALL muscle fibers. That's the key. If you run much slower than CV, you don't use all muscle fibers. The problem is, if you run much faster than CV, you can't run very far and thus you won't really be using all muscle fibers in a sustained fashion. That's why CV is so important.

3) Some general guidlines for tempos below:
Slow Tempos (6-10 miles) - current 5k plus about 1:15-1:30 per mile
Medium Tempos (4-6 miles) - current 5k pace plus 45-60 seconds per mile.
Fast Tempos (3-4 miles) - current 5k pace plus 30-45 seconds per mile
CV intervals - current 5k pace plus 8-12 seconds per km

4) Before and after all tempos/workouts do at least 10-15 mins easy running nothing less.

5) Run on hills in training 1-2 times per week. Specific leg strength is vital to running success. The stronger your legs are the more training you can do without breaking down. The more training you can do without breaking down the better your race performances will be, on average.

6) Focus on good recovery techniques such as diet, sleep, massage etc

The key factors I look at when determining how much quality/intensity an athlete can handle are as follows:

1) Performance level. A fitter runner can absorb more fast running without breaking down.

2) Training consistency. A runner who trains at a decent level for several weeks or months without having setbacks or time off due to injury or illness can handle more quality training per workout and per week.

3) Technical skill. Someone who "pounds the ground," overstrides, leans too much or pronates too much is more likely to have problems when doing high volume quality training.

4) Weekly aerobic volume. A runner who has been covering more miles per week, for several weeks, can handle more quality interval work than one who has been doing lower mileage over a shorter time-frame.

5) Life stress. If you work a lot and have family obligations, you can't do as much quality interval training per workout or per week as someone who is "stress-free."

You can only train as hard as you can recover!!!

Doing harder workouts can ruin an athlete unless they are strong enough to handle them. Running workouts under control and not so much that it wipes you out is the turnkey to success. I've found, as a coach, that it is true for nearly all runners. Only the ridiculously talented can get away with hammering every day, and even they breakdown and often don't reach their potential. It is the effective use of "self-control" that provides the pathway to personal excellence.

And, I'll add one more thing: It is about the journey, not just the destination. If you are enjoying your workouts, you are probably training right. If you are dreading your workouts, having to psych yourself up for them, or have an agitated body and mind often, then you are training too hard and pushing beyond your optimal training volume and intensity.

Finally in my opinion, what you use for tempos depends upon (at least) four factors:

1) your current fitness level. The slower you are or the less fit you are the more likely you should use lower intensities;

2) your goal race-distance. The shorter the race distance distance the more important it would be to use harder (faster/shorter) tempos in training;

3) your time-frame. If you are far away from your goal race, using lower intensity, longer duration tempos is a good idea (this is my opinion based on experience only). The closer you are to a race the more important it is to simulate the type of intensity you'll be facing in a race. Thus, if you were close to a big 5k race then using fast tempos would be a good idea. If you are close to a marathon race, longer but slower tempos would probably work well and be the most helpful in terms of improving race-performance.

4) your natural capacities. Simply put, one runner may thrive on faster but shorter tempos while another may thrive on longer and slower tempos. It's a personal thing.

Hope that helps a bit. Dont get to bogged down on specifics just vary your paces, be patient and strive for consistancy. It will all fall into place then.

Tergat