COS could appoint first UK female Bishop.

SirHenryGrattan · 15-12-2009 3:38pm #1

This could be the death knell of the Anglican Church in the UK. I forecast schism and a massive exodus to other denominations as committed Christians look elsewhere for orthodoxy. Continuous liberalisation of Church doctrine has failed to arrest the decline in congregations. These latest moves could result in the extinction of the Anglicanism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6957067.ece

kelly1 · 15-12-2009 4:47pm

I tend to agree. As described in the gospel, they're building a house on sands. Such a move is hardly likely to bring God's blessing.

Ickle Magoo · 15-12-2009 4:55pm

The Church of Scotland appointed an openly gay minister, it didn't implode. I think it's great that a woman may be appointed as bishop. Surely it's things like homophobia and sexism that puts people off religions rather than the lack of?

Would God really be so offended if a woman was to become a bishop - and why?

panda100 · 15-12-2009 5:18pm

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The Church of Scotland appointed an openly gay minister, it didn't implode. I think it's great that a woman may be appointed as bishop. Surely it's things like homophobia and sexism that puts people off religions rather than the lack of?

I think whats put people of Christian religions in the UK and Ireland is their fickleness.
Religion and its patriachal nature held women back for years,now they seem to be jumping on the equality bandwagon in which feminism won us our rights. As I said on another thread here, nothing is more off putting then an orgaisation that continually changes its beliefs to be popular to the masses.

Ickle Magoo · 15-12-2009 5:30pm

I don't know if I'd call taking 350 odd years to decide that women aren't actually less important to the church hierarchy than men, fickle or continually changing minds, tbh.

If society is changing and congregation numbers along with it, is it such a crime that religious organisations - dare I say it - evolve to accept that is the world we now live in.

Would God be so disgusted that a man-made construct is tweaked if it made His word more appealing to the masses?

homer911 · 15-12-2009 6:39pm

I dont believe the Church of Scotland is affiliated to the Anglican Church - its much closer in style and organisation to the Presbyterian Church

Women have been allowed to be ordained in the COS since 1968
http://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/organisation/orgwomen.htm
that doesnt mean they want to become bishops, or are the best person for the job

We have enough discussions on this site about gay priests, so I'm not going to follow the thread down that rabbit hole...

Ickle Magoo · 15-12-2009 6:53pm

homer911 wrote: »

I dont believe the Church of Scotland is affiliated to the Anglican Church - its much closer in style and organisation to the Presbyterian Church

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest they were - just that another religious organisation in Scotland changed the rules, also to much naysaying and tutting yet life went on as normal.

homer911 wrote: »

Women have been allowed to be ordained in the COS since 1968
http://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/o...n/orgwomen.htm
that doesnt mean they want to become bishops, or are the best person for the job

I know that. I don't know about that. If a woman gets a calling from God then I'm not sure why man gets to stand in the way....

homer911 wrote: »

We have enough discussions on this site about gay priests, so I'm not going to follow the thread down that rabbit hole...
Today 16:30

I wasn't trying to discuss Gay priests or dig a rabbit hole, sorry. Just making the point that we heard the same gnashing of teeth and proclamations of doom...

Ickle Magoo · 15-12-2009 10:50pm

I think it's just the title getting me muddled.

b0bsquish · 15-12-2009 10:54pm

Anyone care to give a reason why a woman shouldn't be a bishop?

Ickle Magoo · 15-12-2009 10:56pm

b0bsquish wrote: »

Anyone care to give a reason why a woman shouldn't be a bishop?

It's not likely to bring God's blessing, apparently.

panda100 · 16-12-2009 1:42pm

b0bsquish wrote: »

Anyone care to give a reason why a woman shouldn't be a bishop?

There has been much discussion about this on other threads. I genuinely dont know the Anglican or C of S position on this, and why it changed. I only know the RC church's position on womens priests which is that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God's plan for the church.
This really comes back to how religion is a 'man made construct' as you said. Nobody can know Gods plan for the church unless they are God herself.

From what I do kof the C of S they had women preachers as far back as the 1930's and began ordaining women in the 1960's, so its probably one of the most progressive Christian churches. However, their set up of priests and bishops is a lot different to the RC church. Ordination to the priesthood in the RC church is a sacrament, its not in the C of S for example, so it would be easier for a women to become a bishop.

SirHenryGrattan · 17-12-2009 2:27pm

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

If society is changing and congregation numbers along with it, is it such a crime that religious organisations - dare I say it - evolve to accept that is the world we now live in.

This is what happens when religions evolve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236267/Sharp-decline-faith-number-Christians-Britain-falls-half.html

SirHenryGrattan · 17-12-2009 3:28pm

The Queen opposes the ordination of gay and women priests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5750361/Queen-sends-supportive-letters-to-leaders-of-church-movement-that-has-angered-gay-campaigners.html

Puck · 17-12-2009 4:23pm

The COS is Presbyterian, they don't have bishops. You're thinking of the Scottish Episcopal Church, as is mentioned several times in that very article.

kelly1 · 17-12-2009 4:54pm

b0bsquish wrote: »

Anyone care to give a reason why a woman shouldn't be a bishop?

It's doesn't just apply to bishops. Women can't be priests basically because the Church doesn't have the divine authority to ordain women.

See http://www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/MALEPRIE.TXT

and http://www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/ALL-MALE.TXT

Ickle Magoo · 17-12-2009 10:51pm

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

This is what happens when religions evolve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236267/Sharp-decline-faith-number-Christians-Britain-falls-half.html

But the RCC hasn't "evolved" to allow women priests and it saw a decline as well. There is clearly more to the decline of religion than the gender and sexual orientation of the various clergy.

Ickle Magoo · 18-12-2009 10:49pm

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

The Queen opposes the ordination of gay and women priests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5750361/Queen-sends-supportive-letters-to-leaders-of-church-movement-that-has-angered-gay-campaigners.html

Unelected outdated authority supports discrimination by unelected outdated authority - shockeroonies!

Xluna · 18-12-2009 11:41pm

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

This could be the death knell of the Anglican Church in the UK. I forecast schism and a massive exodus to other denominations as committed Christians look elsewhere for orthodoxy. Continuous liberalisation of Church doctrine has failed to arrest the decline in congregations. These latest moves could result in the extinction of the Anglicanism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6957067.ece

I fail to see how the appointment of a female Bishop would cause an exodus of Anglicans, unless those that plan to leave are misogynists. I'd have thought the remaining Anglicans would be happy to be rid of them.

Xluna · 18-12-2009 11:44pm

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

This is what happens when religions evolve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236267/Sharp-decline-faith-number-Christians-Britain-falls-half.html

Or when education improves.

wolfsbane · 19-12-2009 10:10pm

b0bsquish wrote: »

Anyone care to give a reason why a woman shouldn't be a bishop?

1 Timothy 3:1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Ickle Magoo · 19-12-2009 10:26pm

wolfsbane wrote: »

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Says it all really. :rolleyes:

COS could appoint first UK female Bishop.

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