Picking Fights and Padding Records.

Martin Walker

Weve seen this happen in MMA in the UK. Now i think is creeping into MMA in Ireland. Guys getting matched against Guys they think they can beat easily just to get the W. Now im not saying any fight is "easy" as such but when you look at it some fights are overmatched. This is not cool. Surely a fighter should fight for a challenge not to make his record look good?
Whats everyones view on this?
Does it go on? And whos fault is it? Fighter, Manager, Promoter?

Dragan

Examples or your post is pointless to be honest.

Not being a dick or anything, it's just if your gonna say something like this you might as well say the instances you feel back you up, or else it's just pointless stirring in my view.

Killme00

Please give some examples. I have been to a fair few shows over the past year or so and havent seen anyone have a gimme or particularly easy matches.

Martin Walker

Im not stirring. Just asking does anyone think its going on?
Its a reasonable question.

Killme00

Martin Walker wrote: »

Im not stirring. Just asking does anyone think its going on?
Its a reasonable question.

I may be being naive bit i dont think this happens. If any opponents are overmatched in a fight then i would question the promoters matchmaking skills moreso than a fighter/coach trying to pad their record.

cletus

Martin Walker wrote: »

. Now im not saying any fight is "easy" as such but when you look at it some fights are overmatched. This is not cool. Surely a fighter should fight for a challenge not to make his record look good?

your not just asking do it happen, you are stating that you've seen it happen, if so which fights / fighters

Roper

I have seen some mismatches but they've been at a low enough level and as such hard to predict the outcome until the guy stands in the ring.

Record padding in Ireland really does you no good though. I mean there are so few guys to fight so it's difficult enough to get a fight. If you have a large record then it's even harder.

Martin Walker

I dont have to state what fights i think have been mismatched.
Im not gonna start dropping names, same as i dont expect anyone else to start dropping names, cos that will just start a fight. Im not on here trying to persuade people that it happens. I belive what i belive take it or leave it.

Im just curious of other people opinions on the subject. If its too hard a question for some people to answer, then dont.

mmaireland.com

There's no doubt it happens Marty.

For example; coaches are always going to attempt to make their fighters look more appealing when approaching a promoter. It's not uncommon to see a gym combine pro and amateur records (I really do wish people would stop calling it semi pro - but that's another thread!) to make records look "better" rather than worse.

On the flip side; it's not uncommon to see coaches and gyms put forward people that have had years of BJJ, Thai or Boxing training (not always combined) and put them in a C-Class as "amateurs". They then walk all over their opponent that has 6 months of MMA training and no previous experience.

To be truthful; I'm of the opinion that it's the responsibility of coaches to protect fighters. Not promotions. So, for example, I no longer allow people with less that 12 months training at my gym to compete nationaly under any rule set.

So, when I say, "first timer with 12 months training" it means "first timer with 12 months training". It also means that I'm confident my fighter can go in there and come out with a win or loss; but never being "wholly outclassed".

Does it happen? Yes.
Do I expect someone else to do something about it? No.
Have I done something internally to assure a measure of protection for my fighters? Yes.

I now ask a lot of questions when setting up fights. I'm amazed that some shows are "put out" by the questions (how much previous experience, orthodox or southpaw, etc. etc.). If I'm not comfortable with the responses - I don't put our guys forward.

colinlaird000

LOL to be fair i think most people only think they were mismatched when they lose. Kind of an irishmans statement there, but its true.Myself included I'm one of those poor fighters that is always up to knee height of the guy im fighting, so inevitably he will be more intimidating. I cant even attempt looking scary. It just doesnt work. I like to think that for the majority of the fights where ive been on the L column ive given the guy a fair run for his money though Mostly.

Roper

I think people only really complain about this when they lose. There's a saying "everyone stronger than you is on steroids" and this might be the case here rather than some attempt to defraud people. Some gyms let people hang out getting experience in competition, and others allow their guys to mature in the gym. I'm sure it happens, but I doubt it's endemic.

I mean it's pretty easy to go on a losing streak and rationalise it by saying "oh well we've been cheated". we went on a streak there last year where we didn't win a fight for 8 months! We didn't cry about it, we assessed it, looked at the areas we lost in over the course of those fights, sacked up and put more time and effort into those areas, sought help where needed and now we're doing better. Simple as. It's a sport, and in sports you compete and you should compete regularly. Fighters fight, and fighters lose. in fact I read a statistic once that 50% of fighters lose in any given match.

Obviously we all want fairness but I think this less common than this topic would suggest.

rovert

Someone in Ireland should take the Gracie appproach to record padding.

davmol

rovert wrote: »

Someone in Ireland should take the Gracie appproach to record padding.

Which is?

rovert

davmol wrote: »

Which is?

Counting sparring sessions

Martin Walker

rovert wrote: »

Counting sparring sessions

lol!:D

Lab_Mouse

rovert wrote: »

Counting sparring sessions

jesus wept:eek::D

Edit:tell me your joking

colinlaird000

Usually if things sound totally unbelievable, they're probably true.

cowzerp

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

jesus wept:eek::D

Edit:tell me your joking

Its true of some of the gracies, even within the Gracie family there is some arguments over the issue..

Plus thats a different topic to real records and this topic anyway.

Menace2Society

I do think this happens Marty but I prefer the term 'sugar coatin records' alot of fighters won't take fights because they might actually get beat and they prefer to have that unbeaten record. I think it also happens the UK as well. But I totally agree, it does happen.

whitey21

If it is even happening, the new ranking system that they are doin up could help curb that. If someone wants to improve and look to all that they are the best, they have to beat the best and hold the number 1 rank. Surely they cannot hold a top ranking if they never fought anyone in the top ranks...even they have a "sugar coated record"

cowzerp

Menace2Society wrote: »

I do think this happens Marty but I prefer the term 'sugar coatin records' alot of fighters won't take fights because they might actually get beat and they prefer to have that unbeaten record. I think it also happens the UK as well. But I totally agree, it does happen.

Cant say i know of this in ireland, there is some fighters who wont fight others with similar records alright but not because there unbeaten, some coaches might protect fighters but thats just smart, i want my lads fighting similar experience guys, or similar records at least as thats how ya seperate levels..

My record is terrible yet im only offered fights against the top lads around for example, i fought at the top on my debut as a replacement and since then have been judged by that which kinda sucks as i never got to gain MMA ring, cage experience like most against similar record lads.

I think thats more down to people assuming i was at the level i debuted instead of realising that i was only filling in for a show and was just a boxer with guts but no ground game at all..in hindsight i wish i had of fought semi pro a few times then fought a debut pro and built up like that..

Menace2Society

whitey21 wrote: »

If it is even happening, the new ranking system that they are doin up could help curb that. If someone wants to improve and look to all that they are the best, they have to beat the best and hold the number 1 rank. Surely they cannot hold a top ranking if they never fought anyone in the top ranks...even they have a "sugar coated record"

That is spot on! Smart reply.

I'm lookin forward to the rankings, should be fun. Are they being done every month?

Kent Brockman

Roper wrote: »

Fighters fight, and fighters lose. in fact I read a statistic once that 50% of fighters lose in any given match.

37.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot:D or was that 84%.

Are your stats counting both as losers when there is a draw;)

Record padding is infamous in boxing according to a documentary I saw years ago, although MMA is a different kettle of fish and I would think upsets are more common

Roper

Kent Brockman wrote: »

Are your stats counting both as losers when there is a draw;)

Oh there's always one!!!:D

Martin Walker

Roper wrote: »

Oh there's always one!!!:D

One what? one %?
Im lost:D

kid chaos

Records are for DJs

Menace2Society

kid chaos wrote: »

Records are for DJs

Exactly!! As long as you put on a good show I don't see the big deal with records. CWC say the exact same thing, as long as you can entertain & pull a crowd, they don't care about records which is what alot of shows need to adapt (that's more for the mainland, as I think everyone over here feels the same)