Cleaners worth more than bankers and tax accountants?

jumpguy

Hospital cleaners are worth more to society than bankers, a study suggests.

The research, carried out by think tank the New Economics Foundation, says hospital cleaners create £10 of value for every £1 they are paid.

It claims bankers are a drain on the country because of the damage they caused to the global economy.

They reportedly destroy £7 of value for every £1 they earn. Meanwhile, senior advertising executives are said to "create stress".

The study says they are responsible for campaigns which create dissatisfaction and misery, and encourage over-consumption.

And tax accountants damage the country by devising schemes to cut the amount of money available to the government, the research suggests.

By contrast, child minders and waste recyclers are also doing jobs that create net wealth to the country.

The Foundation has used a new form of job evaluation to calculate the total contribution various jobs make to society, including for the first time the impact on communities and environment.

Eilis Lawlor, spokeswoman for the New Economics Foundation, said: "Pay levels often don't reflect the true value that is being created. As a society, we need a pay structure which rewards those jobs that create most societal benefit rather than those that generate profits at the expense of society and the environment".

She said the aim of the research was not to target individuals in highly paid jobs, or suggest people in low paid jobs should earn more.

"The point we are making is more fundamental - that there should be a relationship between what we are paid and the value our work generates for society. We've found a way to calculate that," she said.

A total of six different jobs were analysed to assess their overall value. These are the study's main findings:

* The elite banker

"Rather than being wealth creators bankers are being handsomely rewarded for bringing the global financial system to the brink of collapse

Paid between £500,000 and £80m a year, leading bankers destroy £7 of value for every pound they generate".

* Childcare workers

"Both for families and society as a whole, looking after children could not be more important. As well as providing a valuable service for families, they release earnings potential by allowing parents to continue working. For every pound they are paid they generate up to £9.50 worth of benefits to society."

* Hospital cleaners

"Play a vital role in the workings of healthcare facilities. They not only clean hospitals and maintain hygiene standards but also contribute to wider health outcomes. For every pound paid, over £10 in social value is created."

* Advertising executives

The industry "encourages high spending and indebtedness. It can create insatiable aspirations, fuelling feelings of dissatisfaction, inadequacy and stress. For a salary of between £50,000 and £12m top advertising executives destroy £11 of value for every pound in value they generate".

* Tax accountants

"Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between £75,000 and £200,000, tax accountants destroy £47 in value, for every pound they generate."

* Waste recycling workers

"Do a range of different jobs that relate to processing and preventing waste and promoting recycling. Carbon emissions are significantly reduced. There is also a value in reusing goods. For every pound of value spent on wages, £12 of value is generated for society."

The research also makes a variety of policy recommendations to align pay more closely with the value of work.

These include establishing a high pay commission, building social and environmental value into prices, and introducing more progressive taxation.

So should people be paid according to their social worth rather than profits produced? How would this effect capitalism, and finally, how does this add to the public sector vs private sector debate?

Jesus Wept

I think this study was of negative value.

brianthebard

'Study suggests Marx was right'.








:eek:

brummytom

Bankers are worth fuck all at the moment

jumpguy

brummytom wrote: »

Bankers are worth fuck all at the moment

But were they ever? All they do is promote over-indulgence to produce profit for commission, and earn a ridiculous salary. The humble cleaner works for less, and stops you getting sick.

OutlawPete

Porn stars would all be multi-millionaires then

Investment bankers and tax accountants spend years in college and then have to spend even more time doing professional exams when they start work. They have a difficult and stressful job and the majority deserve the money that they earn. Only a very small number of the very top bankers have a case to answer.

jimmycrackcorm

A housewife with 5 kids beats them all.

jumpguy

Kyla Wrong Hall wrote: »

Investment bankers and tax accountants spend years in college and then have to spend even more time doing professional exams when they start work. They have a difficult and stressful job and the majority deserve the money that they earn.

And what do they contribute to society?

Wertz

jumpguy wrote: »

And what do they contribute to society?

Even more money to those that already have more than they need...

stovelid

In fairness, there are highly-paid jobs - that require high-level training - that are of huge societal benefit, like those in science, mechanics and medicine.

It's still refreshing to see jobs - that may not require complex training - like child-care given kudos. Ditto the role of stay-at-home parents. You can hardly say that providing a safe, loving developmental environment for the adult citizens of tomorrow is worthless because it is badly (or non) paid and doesn't require a degree.

The_Minister

jumpguy wrote: »

But were they ever? All they do is promote over-indulgence to produce profit for commission, and earn a ridiculous salary. The humble cleaner works for less, and stops you getting sick.

And the banker allows the humble cleaner to securely store her wages somewhere else, rather than keeping them under her pillow, reducing the chances of a burgler breaking in and stealing all her savings.

Meanwhile, the banker lends out her money, allowing people to set up new businesses and discover new technologies, creating wealth and employment. Indeed, most financial transactions - transferring money from account to account, credit cards, ATMs, would be impossible without modern banks - you would have to carry gold coins, if not resort to barter.

In fact, without bankers, it is highly likely Boards would not exist.

So hurray for the banker, the quiet facilitator who enables out society to reduce poverty, research technologies, and have near full employment.

May be slightly toungue in cheeck

jumpguy

The_Minister wrote: »

And the banker allows the humble cleaner to securely store her wages somewhere else, rather than keeping them under her pillow, reducing the chances of a burgler breaking in and stealing all her savings.

Meanwhile, the banker lends out her money, allowing people to set up new businesses and discover new technologies, creating wealth and employment. Indeed, most financial transactions - transferring money from account to account, credit cards, ATMs, would be impossible without modern banks - you would have to carry gold coins, if not resort to barter.

In fact, without bankers, it is highly likely Boards would not exist.

So hurray for the banker, the quiet facilitator who enables out society to reduce poverty, research technologies, and have near full employment.

May be slightly toungue in cheeck

However that money must be paid back, and when it's not, the bank fails, and must be rescued by the government to prevent people losing their savings they trusted with the bank in the first place. Hence costing society ridiculous sums, and reducing public morale.

The_Minister

It's worth noting that we currently assign people's wages based on scarcity - how many people can do the job, and how well can they do it.

There are many, many people capable of being good teachers (pity few choose that path:P), but very, very few capable of being good footballers. As such, footballers get paid more, even though they only kick the descendant of an inflated pig's bladder around a field, as they can demand higher wages.

The_Minister

jumpguy wrote: »

However that money must be paid back, and when it's not, the bank fails, and must be rescued by the government to prevent people losing their savings they trusted with the bank in the first place. Hence costing society ridiculous sums, and reducing public morale.

But nowhere near the trouble that would be caused if banks did not exist.
Bankers are nessacery, highly profitable banks aren't really.

mahamageehad

they're all part of the same cycle!

Bankers create the sh!t, tax accountants try to hide it and cleaners have to clean it up.

Mike 1972

A housewife with 5 kids beats them all.

In an over populated world is really still the case ?

And what about househusbands, housecohabitingpartners, housewidows, housedivorcees....................................

So should people be paid according to their social worth rather than profits produced?

Sure but not until we can establish a consensus as to the relative social worth of every occupation and an equitable means of evaluating a individuals effectivness and performance within their occupation....................................

Also with out bankers and other high earners who is going to pay for cleaners etc and with out the big buildings built by profitable investment banks where are the 1000's of people employed to clean them going to work.

RMD

jumpguy wrote: »

And what do they contribute to society?

Would I be right in saying you have such little money available you have no need for a tax accountant? Sorry for being bitchy, but I'm starting to hate all these "rabble rabble rabble I hate bankers" type crap. Not everyone one of them stuck us in this recession.

Overheal

Wow, could that study be more socialist?

OutlawPete

Overheal wrote: »

Wow, could that study be more socialist?

No.

Not without having to reopen the McCarthy trials at least

aDeener

jumpguy wrote: »

But were they ever? All they do is promote over-indulgence to produce profit for commission, and earn a ridiculous salary. The humble cleaner works for less, and stops you getting sick.

ahh the after hours school of economics....

asdasd

How did the study get that cleaners "create wealth". Cleaning something is a service, and something people could do themselves - even offices. A dirty office may end up being marginally less productive. Who knows?

I agree that bankers are overpaid, but merely because I dont actually get the supposed market mechanism that pays them -i.e. why are they paid more than workers for Google?

On which subject, engineers incl. software engineers are massively underpaid particularly when you value the utility of the product to other producers - most of the work on a factory line is done by machines built by engineers and driven by software; most of the work and intelligence in flying a 747 or Airbus (in particular) is in the engineering; most of the wealth of google is created by engineers, and software guys.

The waste disposal chaps beloved of the report are using equipment built by engineers. The cleaners may be using Dyson's new cleaner, or a vacuum also designed and built by an engineer.
Realising this takes you from Marx - the proletariat in effect makes nothing - to John Galt. Some of them make everything, as workers or producers of the machines which drive the work.

I think we can, therefore, assign the New Economics theories to the dustbin of history, with much of the rest of socialism.

asdasd

Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between £75,000 and £200,000, tax accountants destroy £47 in value, for every pound they generate."

Seriously. Lol. Transferring more money to the government is generally less efficient.

seclachi

I`m guess the dollars accountants/bankers destroyed was calculating every penny lost in the crash and marking it against them. Thats scientific.