Biggest automotive advance this decade?

BrianD3

What, in your opinion was the biggest advance in car design/engineering this decade? See poll

unkel

Jay - first vote is mine

Diesel technology was last decade. I feel not so much has happened this decade, but I suppose the latest direct injection petrols are a big step forward in combining high power output with low fuel consumption and emissions.

Joey the lips

I thought diesel eng tec simply because its now become more available and cheaper.

Long Onion

Possibly just outside the decade technically speaking, but the widespread introduction of commonrail diesel technology for passenger vehicles must rank right up there.

enda1

I voted hybrid because it hints at the real future of engine tech.

Diesel is a dead duck.

unkel

Lads, the most important common rail diesel engines were widely available in '97/ '98 (FIAT/Alfa, BMW and Merc). The take up of cars with these engines was instant, it didn't take years for them to be successful. With this decade I presume the OP means anything after jan 1st, 2000

Joey the lips

unkel wrote: »

Lads, the most important common rail diesel engines were widely available in '97/ '98 (FIAT/Alfa, BMW and Merc). The take up of cars with these engines was instant, it didn't take years for them to be successful. With this decade I presume the OP means anything after jan 1st, 2000

Diesel is on the list so its for consideration. My fav invention is the thermos mug holder as all the other ones have been crap up to now...

Thanks Cit!

robtri

much as it pains me to say it, I think electric car performance has been the greatest step so far this decade,
cars such as the Tesla and the lightning GT......

they are not perfect, but the advances they are making to try to match current petrol/diesel car perfoemance over the last decade has been huge....

as no option... can't vote....

Saab Ed

Fiat Multi Air IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IrPcmMHqHE

BrianD3

I voted for passive safety. In general there is a big difference in the EuroNCAP performance of cars from the late 00s compare to the the late 90s. I think the following example illustrates it well. I could have used other examples too, it's not as if I have picked an exceptional case.

Peugeot 406 introduced mid 90s, 64 km/h offset frontal crash

Renault Laguna III, introduced 2007, 80 km/h offset frontal crash


64 vs 80 km/h is a 50% increase in kinetic energy, yet the newer car offers signficantly better protection.

air

DSG / Twin Clutch Gearboxes for me. Although invented earlier, first put into production in the R32 in 2004 according to wikipedia.
The technology in electric cars like the Tesla is nothing new, realistically they just repackaged existing motors and controller technology in an automotive package.
The safety improvements are undoubtedly impressive also though.

Midnight_EG

Hot hatch :cool:

Revoknuckle, c'mon.

EPM

Saab Ed wrote: »

Fiat Multi Air IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IrPcmMHqHE

Exactly what I was thinking when I opened the thread

Victor

I voted for passive safety for the above reasons. It went from a side thought only used in Volvos to standard. Hybrid technology is still in its infancy and is the best new arrival.

My brother works for an engine manufacturer and they think they can make cars 2-3 times more efficient than current models.

unkel

air wrote: »

DSG / Twin Clutch Gearboxes for me. Although invented earlier, first put into production in the R32 in 2004 according to wikipedia.

+1

It's a pity this is not a separate option in the poll. Twin clutch boxes have gone from very exclusive (supercar territory) to cheap options on mainstream econo cars (granted mainly VAG) in a decade. And not using more fuel than a manual, and in fact have better performance than a manual. I predict that a decade from now, most new cars are not EVs - they will still have an internal combustion engine, but no more clutch pedal

Mr.David

unkel wrote: »

+1

And not using more fuel than a manual, and in fact have better performance than a manual.

I thought that too, until I read an article about the EU emissions/economy drive cycle tests, cannot remember where it was though. Basically as far as I remember the point was that a DSG is treated (as you would expect) as an auto for the purpose of the test. However, the change up points for a manual are clearly defined all through the test but not for an auto as they are not controllable as such, but they are on the DSG. So the DSG had the advantage over the manual of being allowed to operate in higher gears than the manual and so recorded equal/better economy despite that not really the case.

I may have not remembered it 100% correctly but thats the jist of it. Big fan of DSG boxes though all the same!

unkel

Interesting point, but as the DSG can operate fully automatically, why shouldn't the test not let it do so? Surely steptronic / tiptronic boxes can be used manually to change up or down but surely it would be silly to require that for the test?

Mr.David

I agree, of course it is correct to consider it auto. But I think the point is that its unrepresentative of the real world. In the drive cycle the manual may for example have to be in 2nd at 30mph but the DSG could be in 4th. So in the real world, assuming that the gear you choose is irrespective of whether or not the gearbox is DSG/manual i.e. you would have had the manual in 4th at 35mph not 2nd the economy figures would be very different.

I'll see if I can find the article....

Mr.David

Cannot find the actual article but found this post on another forum:


Fuel consumption tests are very artificial, I have a 20yr career based on them (the viper in my aviatar is conducting a euro drive cycle test).

Improving manual gearbox cars is hard because the gear change points are fixed, same for a 1.0 econobox or a 5litre performance car. Engines have to run at stoichiometric for the catalyst to function so that just leaves improved volumetric efficiency (throttle the engine with valves, not a big butterfly - see BMW valvetronic) or reduce weight or rolling resistance (aerodynamics and skinny tyres).

So you can chose good gearbox ratios for the drive cycle and you get a poor on the road drive, or vice versa!

Automatically controlled gearboxes can be programmed to maximise the engine’s efficiency on the drive cycle, one reason VW’s DSG give such good results is the driver and euro drive cycle are not forcing the gear changes, a computer is.

Finally results can vary from driver to driver even on the official test, I know who in my team gives the best test results and use them for sign of tests.

colm_mcm

yep, Toyota's MMT semi-automatic/automated clutch gearbox gets better figures than the manual because it changes up sooner - it'd be fair to say they engineer them to do well the same way cars are engineered to behave in an NCAP test in a certain way.

unkel

We all know that the test results are not necessarily a reflection of real life fuel consumption. Hey, the Prius comes out as a frugal car, but in real life it's a gas-guzzler

Didn't know about the fixed gear change settings by the way. Do I understand it right and they have to swich up at a given speed, i.e. go from 1st to 2nd at 20km/h? That seems an unfair comparison as some speeds are far less suitable for changing gear for some cars compared to others? It would make more sense to have minimum and maximum speeds during the test and a maximum time to complete the whole circuit. The manufacturers could then provide their own test drivers.

Mailman

Camless valve timing is the biggest advance we've seen in a long long time i.e. MultiAir.
and for the next decade it will be either elimination of direct mechanical connection of engine to wheels or combined compression/combustion engines.

AugustusMaximus

Mailman wrote: »

Camless valve timing is the biggest advance we've seen in a long long time i.e. MultiAir.
and for the next decade it will be either elimination of direct mechanical connection of engine to wheels or combined compression/combustion engines.

Renault developed pneumatic valve actuators for F1 back in the early 90's. Surely they found their way into road cars before 2000.

JHMEG

The commericialisation and mass production of the hydrogen fuel cell powered car, the Honda FCX, is surely the biggest advance this decade?

WTF has happened to diesel? The Greens based the car tax on CO2 and diesel cars are now really cheap?

ShadowHearth

simply: diesel. Remember times when diesels were so underpowered, i wouldnt even go near one, but now.. alot of diesels autrun petrol cars...


diesel became really atractive now

cadaliac

I voted for the Diesel engine advancement. Look at the World Touring car Championship.
Diesel engine cars beating petrol ones in the same catagory. Fairly big advancement if you ask me.

enda1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

How is hybrid technology a hint at the future? Its a stop gap technology until decent hydrogen storage system becomes available. And Diesel is far from dead it will be around for a very long time considering its use in industrial areas and a means to propel large boats. Hybrid technology is just mating a electrical generator to a petrol engine, nothing ground breaking.

Re: Diesel - the question was about Automotive breakthroughs, not marine so my answer was in relation to automotive. The advances in diesel technology are just a last grasp rise before a sudden fall I feel. Their efficiencies are realistically maxing out with the particulate problems not being solved even with the new DPF tech. and cost of the engines and mass of them being hindering. Their narrower rev range and higher torque insists on bigger clutches and more gears (read cost/weight). Diesel is very popular also because it is a fuel which is unfairly taxed in relation to petrol - this will change as the environmental impact of it is truly evaluated and costed.

I said hybrid was a hint to the future of automotive. It shows the moving away from tradition IC engines to energy storage/reclamation and electric drives.

Small cars will be pure electric and the larger the car, the more they will tend towards hydrogen. In the mid range we will see hybrid cars for the mid-future eventually though all fossil fuels will be eliminated from automotive - including and especially road haulage (as these vehicles will be most suitable for hydrogen vehicles as space and mass are less an issue).

JHMEG

In fairness there were no major advances in hybrids this decade. The bulk of the work was done in the 90s (Prius came to market in 1997, Insight in 1999) and has been just refined since then.

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

The commericialisation and mass production of the hydrogen fuel cell powered car, the Honda FCX, is surely the biggest advance this decade?

You're an optimist. Mass production of the Honda FCX will probably not even start next decade, never mind this decade

monkeypants

I was going to say the tolls, but I'm not sure if that's funny. Apologies.

Mjollnir

This is sort of an other, and I keep seeing articles on either Renault or possibly BMW coming close, but electronic, camless valve actuation on a large scale, commercial basis continues to remain 'just around the corner, but almost here' every time I happen across it in a car mag.

enda1

JHMEG wrote: »

In fairness there were no major advances in hybrids this decade. The bulk of the work was done in the 90s (Prius came to market in 1997, Insight in 1999) and has been just refined since then.

The performance increase of a diesel engine through changing valve technology and injection is called a breakthrough, whereas the mass commercialisation uptake by every OEM, vast improvements in battery technology, controller technology, CVT, etc. etc. are just refinement...

I hope those blinkers fit well :P

JHMEG

enda1 wrote: »

The performance increase of a diesel engine through changing valve technology and injection is called a breakthrough, whereas the mass commercialisation uptake by every OEM, vast improvements in battery technology, controller technology, CVT, etc. etc. are just refinement...

I hope those blinkers fit well :P

Eh, I believe I'm the only hybrid owner who posts here. My 04 Civic IMA has the same NiMH battery tech and same electric motor that the original Insight had (a lot of parts are actually shared), and the same applies to the Prius I vs Prius III. CVT, which isn't just limited to hybrids, hasn't changed.

As for every OEM. There are still only two systems broadly in use: Toyota's and Honda's, just like in the 90s.

alias no.9

enda1 wrote: »

Re: Diesel - the question was about Automotive breakthroughs, not marine so my answer was in relation to automotive. The advances in diesel technology are just a last grasp rise before a sudden fall I feel. Their efficiencies are realistically maxing out with the particulate problems not being solved even with the new DPF tech. and cost of the engines and mass of them being hindering. Their narrower rev range and higher torque insists on bigger clutches and more gears (read cost/weight). Diesel is very popular also because it is a fuel which is unfairly taxed in relation to petrol - this will change as the environmental impact of it is truly evaluated and costed.

I said hybrid was a hint to the future of automotive. It shows the moving away from tradition IC engines to energy storage/reclamation and electric drives.

Small cars will be pure electric and the larger the car, the more they will tend towards hydrogen. In the mid range we will see hybrid cars for the mid-future eventually though all fossil fuels will be eliminated from automotive - including and especially road haulage (as these vehicles will be most suitable for hydrogen vehicles as space and mass are less an issue).

Hydrogen is not a fuel source, mearly a means of storing energy analagous to a battery. In it's most common state, as a component of water, hydrogen contains no usable energy for propulsion. Using large amounts of energy, usually in the form of electricity, the hydrogen and oxygen from water can be seperated. This makes it useful as for energy storage in a form that can easily be transferred from one container to another (a pump to a fuel tank).
If you're going to use hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, you lose a huge proportion of the energy as heat and noise. That's not very efficient, taking electrical energy, converting that to hydrogen and then converting a fraction of that into propulsion.
The alternative is to use hydrogen powered fuel cells, much more efficient changing the energy stored in the hydrogen back into electricity, to power motors instead of an IC engine. However, it's not the only fuel that could power a fuel cell, alcohols would be much safer but would require the development of synthetic alcohols for scale and also because captured CO2 would be an input to the process.
The thing about fuel cells is that they will always be in direct competition with batteries. They have the advantage of quick refueling but an exchangable battery could offer the same benefits. If electric vehicles become the norm, then it's a fight between batteries and fuel cells to power them, if it's fuel cells then it's a fight between hydrogen and alcohol based fuel cells.
If the internal combustion engine is to survive, then they will not be powered by hydrogen because it just doesn't make any sense due to the needing to use electricity to create hydrogen, just use an electric motor. The alternatives are biofules, which have many environmental negatives, or back to synthetic alcohols again which could fill the gap for a while but in reality the internal combustion engine will go the way of the steam engine.
So hydrogen powered vehicles are far from a foregone conclusion to our future motoring needs.

Tragedy

Safety. Improvements in engines are great, but they haven't come as far as improvements in safety.

DanThe

Great Poll!
I went with active safety, DSC or ESP or whatever it is called - Stability control.

I personally would put it up there with ABS and airbags in how it has moved safety on.
what can be safer than preventing an accident in the first place?

If you watch the bosch videos ( youtube esp bosch) or experience it in an emergency situation, you will know how good it is, especially for average drivers. The only problem is in some cars it can cut in too early, could get very annoying.

Passive saftey has improved greatly this decade too, and the diesel engine, DSG is pretty nifty too, All in all a good decade for advances, What did the 90's do for us?
I suppose it brought fuel injection, 16 valve heads and ABS to the average car.
Did I miss anything? and what does the next 10 years have in store? any guesses?

PADRAIC.M

you can't forget about lexus vdim system LS model, uses infra red sensors behind headlights to detect- ie. If a person walk's out in front of the car it tries to avoid the person, also has led camera on driver to detect if he starts to fall asleep it slightly pulses the brakes to wake them, also has radar sensors front and rear to detect how close other cars and and prep the safety systems in case of an impact!