Ideology and anti-environmentalism

Akrasia

I noticed from another poll on this forum that global warming is still a contentious issue around these parts. In my experience discussing this issue, opposition to global warming seems to be linked very directly to opposition to taxation.

Specifically, Free market capitalists tend to strongly oppose the theory of global warming.

I'd like to hold another poll, alongside the first one to see if this is true.

The question is "Are human activities directly contributing to global warming"
This is a secret ballot, please be honest, I'm genuinely interested in the results

Toiletroll

Well the whole IPCC seem to be trying to rule the "science" with an iron fist.

Making everything more expensive through carbon tax will not help economic growth it will destroy it.

Mozart1986

"Beware the protectors of truth, as if truth were a fair maid that could not protect herself" - Neitzsche (slightly paraphrased)

Akrasia

I don't want this to turn into another climategate thread, just a poll to see if there is a correlation between small state, libertarianism/laissez faire capitalism and disbelief in global warming.

(note, it is quite embarrasing, but I voted wrong in my own poll. I meant to vote "Yes and I am not a laissez faire capitalist" instead of "No, and I am not a laissez faire capitalist"

the weakest links in democracy are the voters)

finchie

Yeah I see what you're doing here but there is also the strain of conservative thinking for whom climate change is appealing and right-wing American republican survivalist types who have been waiting for a long time for someone to say the world is coming to an end.

Yes there are many free market thinkers who are morons and chose to oppose climate science because they're basically contrary.

'Belief' in climate change is neither here nor there.

simplistic

I say there is a strong link because Free-market capitalism is based on a rational understanding of the world whereas man- made global warming is just an environmentalists faith based religion.

Just to make a distinction we DOT NOT live in a capitalist society we are not even close.

Everytime you buy something in a voluntary exchange you engage in a free market. So everytime you buy a pint for your mate at the bar without holding a knife to to anyones throat that is free market capitalism.

What we have now is you at the bar buying a pint for your mate while a man in a suit has a knife to your throat and his hand in your pocket.

He repeats over and over " nah, this isnt violence friend its a social contract"

After he steals your money and promises hell spend it for your benifit and when you find out that hes spent the money on a binge. He starts pointing his finger and shouting " Its the free marketers fault they sold me the booze"

bonkey

finchie wrote: »

Yeah I see what you're doing here but there is also the strain of conservative thinking for whom climate change is appealing and right-wing American republican survivalist types who have been waiting for a long time for someone to say the world is coming to an end.

Yeah, but most of them only agree with non-laissez-faire politics when it directly benefits them.

Y'know...government shouldn't regulate anything, except where I gain from that directly.

auerillo

Akrasia wrote: »

the weakest links in democracy are the voters)

That's true. And they are also the strongest links.

Akrasia

Its interesting that there are only 5 people involved in the climate debate who consider themselves to be free market capitalists.

bladespin

I would have no problem with green taxes etc if they could actually show me some proof that that was the right direction to go, at the moment a lot of the human influenced climate change propaganda isn't backed up with any real evidence other than some opinions and beliefs.

Generally when it's questioned we're told to shut up and go along with it for the sake of mankind etc. It's no different to religion etc, we're being force fed someone elses's belief system.

BTW there's as much capitalist befefit in promoting energy efficiency in new products and services as anything else, SEI created a new profession in the BER assesor for example, on a bigger level Ireland may become a world leader in the manufacture of remewable equipment, that'll benefit the country in it's pocket too.

nesf

Akrasia wrote: »

Specifically, Free market capitalists tend to strongly oppose the theory of global warming.

A lot of the champions of Free Markets in economics have been banging on about climate change for ages. There's an enormous debate within the discipline about how best to "value" pollution in order to minimise it (i.e. cap and trade versus credits etc etc).

Free market capitalists are as varied a bunch as left wingers. Plastering us all with the same label is as pointless as saying all left wingers are communists and similar.

Mozart1986

Its also naive to think that all "scepticism" is politically motivated. There is no agenda behind "scepticism", unlike green/socialism. Thats not to say all greens are socialists, I am a green and I'm not a socialist. But I do believe the dangers of climate change are being exagerated to make money/gain power and centralise governance (like China). "Scepticism" is just a bunch of curious guys with broadband that want to know the truth before they buy into fear. That has nothing to do with any ideology.

Toiletroll

Mozart1986 wrote: »

Its also naive to think that all "scepticism" is politically motivated. There is no agenda behind "scepticism", unlike green/socialism. Thats not to say all greens are socialists, I am a green and I'm not a socialist. But I do believe the dangers of climate change are being exagerated to make money/gain power and centralise governance (like China). "Scepticism" is just a bunch of curious guys with broadband that want to know the truth before they buy into fear. That has nothing to do with any ideology.

But we are not allowed to ask questions. We are not allowed to see the data (they conveniently lost the data), the russian scientists say the IPCC lied about the temperature data from Russia (25% of earths land mass)...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/

Toiletroll

nesf wrote: »

A lot of the champions of Free Markets in economics have been banging on about climate change for ages. There's an enormous debate within the discipline about how best to "value" pollution in order to minimise it (i.e. cap and trade versus credits etc etc).

Free market capitalists are as varied a bunch as left wingers. Plastering us all with the same label is as pointless as saying all left wingers are communists and similar.

Akrasia is at the same carry on over at p.IE btw... Either that or someone with the exact same UN.

Mozart1986

Toiletroll wrote: »

But we are not allowed to ask questions. We are not allowed to see the data (they conveniently lost the data), ...

I agree, but none of that references your, or any other "sceptic's" political ideology or motivation. It is merely a search for truth and transparency.

Funny how so many proponents of AGW are right wing.

djpbarry

Toiletroll wrote: »

But we are not allowed to ask questions. We are not allowed to see the data (they conveniently lost the data), the russian scientists say the IPCC lied about the temperature data from Russia (25% of earths land mass)...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/

Let's keep the science out of this thread.