Conflicting information about roundabouts

**Timbuk2**

OK, I've heard conflicting information about the proper way to use roundabouts.

I was convinced that the lane you took depended on the position of the exit in relation to the clock (e.g. any exit after 12 o clock, enter the right hand lane and indicate right, regardless of whether it is the 2nd or 3rd exit).

However, a driving instructor recently said it goes by which exit it is. For example, I was approaching a roundabout, with only two exits (3 if you include the road I entered the roundabout on). The exit I was taking was about at the 2 o clock position, so I went into the right lane. But he said as it was only the second exit, I should have been in the left lane and not indicated on the approach to it.

Can anyone clarify? The ROTR booklet is a bit vague on the rules of a roundabout, just the usual left lane for straight on etc.

Princess Zelda

Courtesy of the Drivingschoolireland website:

Unless road signs or road markings indicate otherwise, follow the steps below, when taking the first exit, going straight ahead or taking later exits off a roundabout.


Making a left Turn:
- Signal left and approach in the left-hand lane.
- Keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.


Stay in the left-hand lane, indicate "left" as you approach and continue to indicate until you have passed through the roundabout.


Going straight ahead;
- Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet.
- Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
- You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where:
- the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
- when directed by a Garda.


Stay in the left-hand lane, but do not indicate "left" until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line.


Taking any later exits;
- Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.
- Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout.
- Check your mirrors, signal left and proceed to your exit when it is safe to do so.


Stay in the right-hand lane, indicate right on your approach and maintain this signal until you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take. Then change to the "left" turn indicator.


When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.


Sometimes a roundabout exit with two or more lanes may narrow into one lane over a short distance. Drivers in the lane which is terminated should yield to traffic in the other lane.

Tbh, I think that your driving instructor is wrong here. I was taught by 2 different instructors who used the whole 12 o'clock rule in relation to road positions on a roundabout, and the website I just quoted would appear to say the same.

jimmyw

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

OK, I've heard conflicting information about the proper way to use roundabouts.

I was convinced that the lane you took depended on the position of the exit in relation to the clock (e.g. any exit after 12 o clock, enter the right hand lane and indicate right, regardless of whether it is the 2nd or 3rd exit).

However, a driving instructor recently said it goes by which exit it is. For example, I was approaching a roundabout, with only two exits (3 if you include the road I entered the roundabout on). The exit I was taking was about at the 2 o clock position, so I went into the right lane. But he said as it was only the second exit, I should have been in the left lane and not indicated on the approach to it.

Can anyone clarify? The ROTR booklet is a bit vague on the rules of a roundabout, just the usual left lane for straight on etc.

When I read this first I thought yeah you are right but then I thought well actually no the instructor is right because strictly speaking you are going straight on or second exit so should be in the left lane. You would be in the right lane if you were going right or third exit or back through the road you first entered , but since there was no third exit should not be in right lane.

Reloc8

I think left lane for second exit is ok even if the second exit is past 12 o'clock.

As I understand the logic is that it is obviously easier for you and less likely to cause an accident to use the left lane. However, if you're going past more than one exit you are made go into the right lane as otherwise if you were in the left you would be blocking traffic from entering the roundabout on two entrances, and not just 1, which if everybody who was exiting the third exit (for them) did this mean nobody uses the inside lane at all and traffic is held up to a far greater extent.

theocn

Wouldn't it be just much easier if Local Authorities actually marked roundabouts properly, and put direction arrows on the approach, then no one would be in any doubt which lane to use.

My instructor always told me that the position of the vehicle depended on where the exit was, and not whether it was the 1st or 2nd exit. So if the 2nd exit was passed the 12 o'clock position, you should indicate right, and move to the right hand lane.

J_R

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

OK, I've heard conflicting information about the proper way to use roundabouts.

I was convinced that the lane you took depended on the position of the exit in relation to the clock (e.g. any exit after 12 o clock, enter the right hand lane and indicate right, regardless of whether it is the 2nd or 3rd exit).

However, a driving instructor recently said it goes by which exit it is. For example, I was approaching a roundabout, with only two exits (3 if you include the road I entered the roundabout on). The exit I was taking was about at the 2 o clock position, so I went into the right lane. But he said as it was only the second exit, I should have been in the left lane and not indicated on the approach to it.

Can anyone clarify? The ROTR booklet is a bit vague on the rules of a roundabout, just the usual left lane for straight on etc.

Hi,

Past 12 O'clock you indicate right and enter in right hand lane.

Have a look at the link, Retail Park Roundabout Sligo common sense alone should indicate that you use the "After 12 O'clock rule"

If you stay left, what happens if someone attempts to overtake who is going straight on ???

Change instructor immediately.

2010

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Past 12 O'clock you indicate right and enter in right hand lane.

Have a look at the link, Retail Park Roundabout Sligo common sense alone should indicate that you use the "After 12 O'clock rule"

If you stay left, what happens if someone attempts to overtake who is going straight on ???

Change instructor immediately.

+1

your instructor is totally wrong..get rid of him....past 12oc ...is the right hand lane

Capt'n Midnight

Why don't they put in an example of roundabout with three exits ?


You know like a T junction, and then explain that you don't need to indicate if turning 90 degrees because it's the second exit.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

In this situation you can be in either lane.
IF you're in the right lane you MUST give A left shoulder check before you leave the roundabout if in the left lane it is not required.
You instructor maybe talking about a roundabout and not all roundabouts.

P.S on the link J_R has there. I would also be in the right lane but only for that situation.

+1 In your situation........ ONLY take the advice from a local instructor as that is a local situation and if you take any of the advice we give you may get it wrong as we do not know the roundabout you are talking about.

colm_mcm

I learnt the wat the OPs instructor described. It seems in recent years they've changed to this 12 o clock thing.

As I understood it,

1st and 2nd exit: left lane, 3rd and subsuquent exits, right lane.

unless otherwise signed.

There is no reference to this on the new rules of the road, or websites, but I remember it being the norm.

**Timbuk2**

Thanks for the replies!

Unfortuneatly changing instructor isn't really an option as I have gotten insurance with Hibernian Aviva, and part of their deal is 10 lessons. Apart from this, I wouldn't see he is a bad instructor, but I think he focuses more on complimenting my driving rather than pointing out mistakes. I wish he'd point out every mistake to me so I could work on it. If I ask him to, he just says something along the lines of "You're driving fine. Just watch your position on the road, 18 inches from the left curb"

loobylou

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

"You're driving fine. Just watch your position on the road, 18 inches from the left curb"

:eek::eek::eek:
Is this guy an ADI?? 18" is way too close to the kerb. One metre would be more like it.

J_R

Hi,

That instructor is giving you very dangerous advice.

Roundabouts, unless road markings dictate otherwise you use the clock face and stay left for the first exit, ANY subsequent exit after 12 O'Clock take as a right turn. (He did not mention markings, so I read your post as he was giving you general instructions for all roundabouts)

However, a driving instructor recently said it goes by which exit it is.........But he said as it was only the second exit, I should have been in the left lane and not indicated on the approach to it.

Except for the First exit, it does NOT depend on which number exit but on its position ~ unless road markings etc etc..

Distance from kerb. Eighteen inches is the correct distance for 15 MPH. If you travel faster you are driving dangerously close to the kerb. Normally built-up areas, 1 meter correct distace.

Problem is, as the driving test is so easy, you and all his other pupils will pass if not the first then second, third or subsequent attempts. Putting dangerously incompetent "qualified" drivers on the road.

Bring the ROTR booklet on your next lesson,, ask him explain why he is at variance with its explanation on roundabouts

Below is the British Highway code, think it makes it a little clearer

186

Signals and position.

When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

* signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
* keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

* signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
* keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
* signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want


When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

* select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
* you should not normally need to signal on approach
* stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout.
* signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

Drop a note to Aviva and the RSA, ask them for clarification on the rules.

2010

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

That instructor is giving you very dangerous advice.

Roundabouts, unless road markings dictate otherwise you use the clock face and stay left for the first exit, ANY subsequent exit after 12 O'Clock take as a right turn. (He did not mention markings, so I read your post as he was giving you general instructions for all roundabouts) Except for the First exit, it does NOT depend on which number exit but on its position ~ unless road markings etc etc..

Distance from kerb. Eighteen inches is the correct distance for 15 MPH. If you travel faster you are driving dangerously close to the kerb. Normally built-up areas, 1 meter correct distace.

Problem is, as the driving test is so easy, you and all his other pupils will pass if not the first then second, third or subsequent attempts. Putting dangerously incompetent "qualified" drivers on the road.

Bring the ROTR booklet on your next lesson,, ask him explain why he is at variance with its explanation on roundabouts

Below is the British Highway code, think it makes it a little clearer

Drop a note to Aviva and the RSA, ask them for clarification on the rules.

+1

Spot on JR

Reloc8

Confirming other replies, I just checked the RSA Driving Fault Marking Guidelines issued in respect of how the driving test is marked :

"The approach should normally be in the right-hand lane for any exit after the 12 o’clock position, or a fault
may be recorded for ‘Position at Roundabouts’."

That's on page 6 - and would seem to be clearly expecting the decision on lane to be based on the clock face position of the exit and not its numeric sequence after the first.

daveharnett

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Can anyone clarify? The ROTR booklet is a bit vague on the rules of a roundabout, just the usual left lane for straight on etc.

ROTR has abandoned the clock face, and the exit numbers, and opted for left, straight and right. Afaik, even the RTA doesn't go into any detail about this subject. Basically there are so many possibilities (number and location of roads, number of entrance and exit lanes on each road, number of lanes on the roundabout itself, that it would be impractical and utterly confusing to try to document all but the simplest roundabout: a + shaped junction with two entrance lanes and one exit lane on each road.

The theory is that anything more complicated than this should have signage/lane markings to make it clear. The reality is that where such markings are absent or nonsensical (ie most of the time), the best course is to apply common sense and lots of caution.

Magenta

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

OK, I've heard conflicting information about the proper way to use roundabouts.

I was convinced that the lane you took depended on the position of the exit in relation to the clock (e.g. any exit after 12 o clock, enter the right hand lane and indicate right, regardless of whether it is the 2nd or 3rd exit).

However, a driving instructor recently said it goes by which exit it is. For example, I was approaching a roundabout, with only two exits (3 if you include the road I entered the roundabout on). The exit I was taking was about at the 2 o clock position, so I went into the right lane. But he said as it was only the second exit, I should have been in the left lane and not indicated on the approach to it.

Can anyone clarify? The ROTR booklet is a bit vague on the rules of a roundabout, just the usual left lane for straight on etc.

You are in the right, your instructor is completely wrong! There are plenty of roundabouts where the second exit is on the right...so if you're in the left lane for it just because its the second exit, and someone else is in the right lane, you could well be headed for hitting them once the two of you try and get out of the exit at the same time.

Reloc8 wrote: »

I think left lane for second exit is ok even if the second exit is past 12 o'clock.

As I understand the logic is that it is obviously easier for you and less likely to cause an accident to use the left lane. However, if you're going past more than one exit you are made go into the right lane as otherwise if you were in the left you would be blocking traffic from entering the roundabout on two entrances, and not just 1, which if everybody who was exiting the third exit (for them) did this mean nobody uses the inside lane at all and traffic is held up to a far greater extent.

This is totally wrong. It has nothing to do with blocking traffic outside the roundabout and everything to do with avoiding crashes inside the roundabout. When you are on a roundabout you have the right of way over anyone outside the roundabout.

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Past 12 O'clock you indicate right and enter in right hand lane.

Have a look at the link, Retail Park Roundabout Sligo common sense alone should indicate that you use the "After 12 O'clock rule"

If you stay left, what happens if someone attempts to overtake who is going straight on ???

Change instructor immediately.

Spot on advice.