Irish Placenames

Tableman

In Ireland, we have parishes. These parishes are divided into villages. These villages have names in english. But before that the villages had Irish names. Anyone know when the irish names were given to these villages and how these villages were divided?

mikemac

Realy I would have said a parish has a village. And the village has townlands.

Victor

Tableman wrote: »

In Ireland, we have parishes. These parishes are divided into villages.

Its not quite that simple. There are several systems, some overlapping. Distinction needs to be made between civil and religious parishes.

These villages have names in english. But before that the villages had Irish names. Anyone know when the irish names were given to these villages

They emeged over the duration of history. Names aren't fixed, they evolve over time and one location might have several different names. Dublin (Dubh Linn -v- Baile Átha Cliath) and Charleville (An Rath -v- Rath Luirc) being prime examples. Some names are traditional Celtic or pre-Celtic names or derived from those names, while other have Norman / English origins, e.g. names that end in "-ton" (old form of "town").

how these villages were divided?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Doozie

Do you mean when were placenames anglicised? Or how did places get their names?

I know that in early christian ireland, before there were towns the nearest to closest type of settlement were monasteries, hence we get a lot of placenames in irish with Cill, Cille e.g. Kilkenny (Cill Chainnigh), Kildare (Cill Dara). The sound of 'cill' is still the same to nowadays 'kil'. So anglicising it may have happened after this.
When the Anglo-Normans came we get 'Baile', meaning town. Which means the word baile appears in place names after 1169.
I doubt there was a deadline to when place names began to be referred to in english but the change in population identity and language in the late medieval era would suggest this began to happen around then.

I would love to know though if any one else has a better idea than me.

enfeild

I dont understand why everyone jumps on the bandwagon and states simply that Baile/Bally means town or townland without first looking it up. If you want to know what placenames mean read 'The Angicized Words of Irish Placenames' by Tom Burnell published by Nonsuch, Baggot Street.
Regards.
Enfeild

Doozie

enfeild wrote: »

I dont understand why everyone jumps on the bandwagon and states simply that Baile/Bally means town or townland without first looking it up. If you want to know what placenames mean read 'The Angicized Words of Irish Placenames' by Tom Burnell published by Nonsuch, Baggot Street.
Regards.
Enfeild

I'm not sure why you would critize a post if it is correct?
As far as the 'bandwagon' is concerned, I haven't heard nor seen a bandwagon, wasn't aware of any particular wagon or wagons, and would appreciate if bandwagons were implied then perhaps more clarity would be given as to the nature of the bandwagon you speak of.

As the op was not clear in his/her acutal question there is no point in complicating an answer if you don't know the exact question, which is why I kept it simple.

enfeild

'I'm not sure why you would critize a post if it is correct?'
With respect it is not correct, otherwise I would not have commented.

' baile, this can mean a town, village, cluster of houses, townland, place, spot, homestead, enclosure, dwelling, residence, habitation, patrimony, settlement or situation.' not simply 'town'.
Regards.
Enfeild

Doozie

enfeild wrote: »

'I'm not sure why you would critize a post if it is correct?'
With respect it is not correct, otherwise I would not have commented.

' baile, this can mean a town, village, cluster of houses, townland, place, spot, homestead, enclosure, dwelling, residence, habitation, patrimony, settlement or situation.' not simply 'town'.
Regards.
Enfeild

So it can mean 'town'...

enfeild

...or any of the rest, not just Town,.

Ceilteach

Bally and Balli- in Irish place names can also derive from "béal" meaning "mouth of river" usually

enfeild

Ceilteach is correct. 'Bally and Balli- in Irish place names can also derive from "béal" meaning "mouth of river" usually ' I posted about the word Baile though.
Here are some others;
Bally, bealach, the road or pass.
Bally, beal-átha/atha, béal-átha… ford mouth of…
Bally, buaile, a booley or dairying place.
Bel, beal, a ford(sic).
Bel, béal, a mouth, opening, entrance, approach or access.
Bel, bel-ath, the mouth of the ford.
Bell, béal, a ford.
Bell, béal,beal, the mouth or the ford mouth(sic).
Bell, bile, the tree or the large, ancient or sacred tree.
Ball, baile, this can mean a town, townland, place, spot, homestead, enclosure, residence, habitation or situation. Please see the note on Bally in the introduction.
Ball, béal, a ford.
Bal, baile, baile-na… see Bally.
Bal, ball, a spot.
Bal, balla, a wall.