Summons received - What will happen?

Stercus Accidit

Just under a year ago a friend and his girlfriend were on o connell street after a night out when some scum bag started having a go at them, I was just down the road so ran up to intervene, words were exchanged and he attacked me, and I retaliated. The gardai arrived and arrested me.

8 or so months later(yesterday) I get a summons for "Threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in public place."

I have never been in a courtroom or in trouble with the gardai, and the relevant act states that I could get 3 months in prison or 1000 euro fine.

I'm a bit freaked out, I haven't the first clue what is going on, shouldn't I have been called for a statement? Is this a criminal offence that will go on a record?
Can someone explain to me what is likely to happen, and what on earth this all means? I don't know anything about the system or what I am supposed to do. I'm not looking for legal advice, just an explanation of what is happening.

Thanks.

Victor

You need to speak to a solicitor.

You have to attend court as detailed on the summons. Depending on what the judge decides, you could be found guilty and sentenced in accordance with the relevant act.

peanuthead

If you're not working go to your summons alone and request leal aid.

If you are working, get a solicitor.

It does depend on the judge but generally if you have never been in trouble before you are more likely to get the fine than the prison sentence.

It goes without saying, but present yourself well in court. Be mannerly and dress well. Don't worry about being nervous and not knowing your way around the courts - thats actually a good thing!!

Stercus Accidit

Money is very tight, how much does it cost to speak to a solicitor approximately and how do I go about finding one?

I'm worried, does this constitute a criminal offence and will I end up with a criminal record?

Thanks.

contentking

Solicitors usually give you a 'free' short consulatation over the phone to reel you in, but this can be helpful.

Victor

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I'm worried, does this constitute a criminal offence

Yes.

and will I end up with a criminal record?

Potentially.

Stercus Accidit

Ok, I'm going to speak to a solicitor soon, I can't risk getting a record when I was essentially a victim of an assault.

Thanks.

peanuthead

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Ok, I'm going to speak to a solicitor soon, I can't risk getting a record when I was essentially a victim of an assault.

Thanks.

Try for some free legal advice too there are centres for this too, if you gogle FLAC you should find one close to where you live hopefully.

blinding

Is 8 months a long time for this summons to come through the system ?

Our man in Havana

Not at all. A year would be typical in some areas.

Jo King

peanuthead wrote: »

If you're not working go to your summons alone and request leal aid.

If you are working, get a solicitor.

You will not get legal aid for a first time public order offence. The solicitors who deal with legal aid cases in the District Court will charge for their services. Some will be fairly reasonable. If there is a not guilty plea the cae will be put back for hearing.

Ruth KPS

Im not sure where your living, but my mom runs a free legal advice service (FLAC)

Try getting in touch with your local Citizins Information Centre as they do the Flac service once a month.

And good luck

Stercus Accidit

Thanks guys, it has been really helpful to even get just this bit of advice, this is unbelievably stressful.

I'm just out of college into a recession with a criminal record looming over my head for defending myself and my friends from some scumbag.

I'll hold put until I speak to the solicitor, I have two friends, the girl and the guy who were threatened by the other guy before I stepped in, and saw him throw punches and kicks at me, before I hit him.

Thanks again, sitting here waiting has been awful, I'm in the middle of christmas work for college and all, and just being able to discuss it here has helped.

McCrack

Were you pissed? Did you get lippy with the Garda?

Your charge isnt one of assault but a Public Order one. The scum-bag is not in the equation. Your own behaviour when the Garda came on scene was the problem according to the charge.

You won't get Legal Aid for this. Youre looking at between €200-500 for a solicitor to include consultation and representation.

Stercus Accidit

I didn't say anything to the gardai, I had a few drinks on me.

griffdaddy

McCrack wrote: »

You won't get Legal Aid for this. Youre looking at between €200-500 for a solicitor to include consultation and representation.

What do you mean he won't get legal aid for this? i always thought if it's an offence punishable by jail and he can't afford to hire a solicitor then he's entitled?

Monkeybonkers

Don't worry. Best thing you could do would be the following:

Turn up in court looking presentable ie shirt and jumper or jacket or something along those lines. Act nervous (shouldn't be too hard) and contrite. Apologise to the court and the Gardai profusely. Use the word sorry as often as possible but don't go overboard. As this is a public order offence the judge won't care about the row/scumbag situation so I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.You won't need a solicitor for this. Depending on the mood of the judge you will probably get about a small fine. Anthing above €150 fine and you will be very unlucky. With a small Public Order offence like this what actually happened have very little to do with things once they get to court. The guard will read out his version and the judge will accept it no matter what you say.
Good luck!

McCrack

griffdaddy wrote: »

What do you mean he won't get legal aid for this? i always thought if it's an offence punishable by jail and he can't afford to hire a solicitor then he's entitled?

Legal Aid is means tested, it's not a given right.

It's only granted were there is a real risk that a defendant might be imprisoned.

This type of alleged offence does not warrant it.

I mean imaging the State having to fork out a least a couple hundred to a Legal Aid Solicitor for every mediocre Saturday night Public Order charge to defend Johnner who drank a rake of pints/shots and whatever else and comes to the attention of the Garda for various reasons..pissing in public, staggering all over the place, being abusive, fighting etc etc

OP I'm not infering this is your situation but it's typical Sat. night stuff.

griffdaddy

McCrack wrote: »

Legal Aid is means tested, it's not a given right.

It's only granted were there is a real risk that a defendant might be imprisoned.

This type of alleged offence does not warrant it.

I mean imaging the State having to fork out a least a couple hundred to a Legal Aid Solicitor for every mediocre Saturday night Public Order charge to defend Johnner who drank a rake of pints/shots and whatever else and comes to the attention of the Garda for various reasons..pissing in public, staggering all over the place, being abusive, fighting etc etc

OP I'm not infering this is your situation but it's typical Sat. night stuff.

Sorry i think you're wrong here, there is always a potential risk (however completely unlikely) that a defendant could be imprisioned for a crime like this and as such if he said he couldn't afford a solicitor he would be provided one, otherwise a judge would effectively be presuming their or another judge's ruling before the case has been properly heard.

McCrack

griffdaddy wrote: »

Sorry i think you're wrong here, there is always a potential risk (however completely unlikely) that a defendant could be imprisioned for a crime like this and as such if he said he couldn't afford a solicitor he would be provided one, otherwise a judge would effectively be presuming their or another judge's ruling before the case has been properly heard.

There is a difference between a District Judge deciding that on the facts a particular Defendant is at risk of imprisonment (which is normal) and a District Judge deciding guilt or innocence before it's heard.

The former will happen, the latter doesnt.

Public Order (generally) does not carry a risk of imprisonment. Obviously there are exceptions but the norm is not to imprison for Public Order.

peanuthead

I think I agree with griffdaddy here.

And also, the OP said that one of two likely outcomes of this charge is imprisonment. So why wouldn't he get free legal aid?

Jo King

It is quite simple to resolve this . Go to the District Court when criminal cases are being processed. Watch how many of them are assigned legal aid. You will find that unless there are previous convictions legal aid will not be assigned for a public order offence. I have seen this happen many times. There is no chance of imprisonment for a first time public order offence even though it is a theoretical possibility. If the incident was serious there would be charges such as assault brought which would attract legal aid. The o/p is in Dublin. A morning in the new complex in Parkgate Street would educate him on this point. He should go there and try and get into conversation with some of the legal aid solicitors.

Reloc8

McCrack wrote: »

There is a difference between a District Judge deciding that on the facts a particular Defendant is at risk of imprisonment (which is normal) and a District Judge deciding guilt or innocence before it's heard.

The former will happen, the latter doesnt.

Public Order (generally) does not carry a risk of imprisonment. Obviously there are exceptions but the norm is not to imprison for Public Order.

Just to clear up the legal aid thing (eh you're both right lol).

The judge assesses whether there is a risk of imprisonment. First question - does the offence carry a jail sentence. S. 4 (drunk and disorderly) does not, s. 6 does (3 months). The fact that s. 4 is fine only leads many people to conclude that you can't go to jail for 'public order' as this is what most people who pick up a somewhat out of character summons get charged with.

Having established the potentiality of a jail sentence the judge will ask the prosecutor 'is he at risk' meaning is this defendant at risk. For a first time ever offence the answer is no - which means no legal aid. For a second timer the answer is usually given as yes - which means legal aid is granted subject to means.

So the assessment is not just of the offence charged but of the individual.