Does Ireland deserve to be where it is?

TheCandystripes

People constantly make the point that African countries are in their situation because their people don't help themselves so I flip that comment to you, dwellers of one of the most backward European countries.

Do the Irish deserve what they have? Do the Irish need to help themselves?

pebbles21

You mean like the way the French helped themselves when Hitler invaded France in WWII??

TheCandystripes

I'm here simply to provoke discussion. Choose to be offended and resort to petty insults if you wish.

pebbles21

TheCandystripes wrote: »

dwellers of one of the most backward European countries.

You started it!

gandalf

I hazard to guess this thread won't last too long.

TheCandystripes

That wouldn't ve very boards like would it? Prohibiting a discussion which may ruffle a few feathers or force people to look at themselves rather than blaming everyone else(Foreigners, EU, Brits). Oh no! Not boards at all.

gandalf

Well you know the old adage crap in crap out. Maybe you should work on your thread starting style. At the moment it is starting from the bottom of the barrel. That may be seen as discussion within your group of peers but what I see it as is what I reported your initial post as.

If you have a semblance of discussion ability I am sure you can express yourself in a more meaningful manner in your first post.

jaykay74

TheCandystripes wrote: »

People constantly make the point that African countries are in their situation because their people don't help themselves so I flip that comment to you, dwellers of one of the most backward European countries.

Do the Irish deserve what they have? Do the Irish need to help themselves?

1st question. Yes of course. We have inept feeble politicians and we voted them into office (continually). Thats blindingly obvious.

The 2nd question, i have no idea what you mean. Of course we have to help ourselves. no one else is going to do it for us.

Dirk Gently

You're essentially right. We continually re-elected the same party again and again. There is an argument that it would have been futile anyway as lab and FG were essentially the same, offering no alternative direction so we would have ended up in the same position anyway. They even campaigned in the last election based on continuing growth figures which the government campaigned on. no one had the balls to say that actually, we can't promise you what FF are promising because the economy is going to crash prettty soon, they instead decided to compete with FF projections. If even at that 11th hour FG and LAB couldn't see coming what the dogs on the street could see coming then all their hindsight condemnation of FF is hollow and frankly a bit stomach turning.

Then, mis-management of the economy aside, we have the ordinary people who bought into the credit economy. People themselves decided to buy into the greed with little foresight to economic cycles and the scale of debt they were taking on.

To me it comes down to one of two things. (1) It's the governments fault for mis-managing the economy and the people aren't to blame because people are generally too ignorant to know any better. or (2) The people are to blame for being ignorant, fuelling the debt and electing the same government over and over again.

so for me it comes down to either innocence through gross collective ignorance or else guilt through greed. not great options are they.

aurelius79

TheCandystripes wrote: »

That wouldn't ve very boards like would it? Prohibiting a discussion which may ruffle a few feathers or force people to look at themselves rather than blaming everyone else(Foreigners, EU, Brits). Oh no! Not boards at all.

Well, I just got a ban from the EU forum for expressing my views on the EU and the Lisbon debacle.

Anyway, to answer your question just look at the history of Ireland. Before the invasion, we were an island of many tribes that were constantly struggling for power. By the time we realized the importance of national unity we lost our nation to the British. Any sense of national pride was quickly beaten out of us.

Fast forward to the unpopular uprising. After almost 800 years of tyrannical oppression our struggle for "independence" is hijacked by a crowd of corrupt politicians. Counties are turned against one other. In the chaos, one party seizes power and controls the country for the next 80 years. Is it any wonder the Irish are so conflicted and apathetic?

There will never be a united Ireland if the Republic can't even stand united.

jaykay74

aurelius79 wrote: »

Well, I just got a ban from the EU forum for expressing my views on the EU and the Lisbon debacle.

Anyway, to answer your question just look at the history of Ireland. Before the invasion, we were an island of many tribes that were constantly struggling for power. By the time we realized the importance of national unity we lost our nation to the British. Any sense of national pride was quickly beaten out of us.

Fast forward to the unpopular uprising. After almost 800 years of tyrannical oppression our struggle for "independence" is hijacked by a crowd of corrupt politicians. Counties are turned against one other. In the chaos, one party seizes power and controls the country for the next 80 years. Is it any wonder the Irish are so conflicted and apathetic?

There will never be a united Ireland if the Republic can't even stand united.

Didn't think this was a discussion about the brits and a united ireland

oscarBravo

aurelius79 wrote: »

Well, I just got a ban from the EU forum for expressing my views on the EU and the Lisbon debacle.

No, you got a ban from the EU forum for trolling, and if you make the mistake of discussing moderation in this forum again - in direct contravention of the charter - you'll be adding another ban to your list. In case that wasn't clear enough, don't even think about replying to this post.

nyarlothothep

This does raise an interesting point, namely that historical precedents perpertuate vicious cycles, therefore the labelling of entire populaces as being stupid or lazy constituting fallacious reasoning.

aurelius79

jaykay74 wrote: »

Didn't think this was a discussion about the brits and a united ireland

Sorry, I didn't mean to change the discussion. I was simply trying to give my opinion on the mindset of the average Irish citizen. I believe they've just had enough of politics and have made a choice to stay clear. I honestly can't blame them when you consider the history of the State.

I had the opportunity to grow up in the U.S. when my family emigrated in the early 80s. I'd probably have the same attitude and many Irish people if my family had stayed.

studiorat

Question is did it deserve to be where it was two years ago?

2nd question is what does a cheese eating surrender monkey find so great about a black hole like derry? Namely an even more backward sh1thole than the republic.

Raiser

TheCandystripes wrote: »

That wouldn't ve very boards like would it? Prohibiting a discussion which may ruffle a few feathers or force people to look at themselves rather than blaming everyone else(Foreigners, EU, Brits). Oh no! Not boards at all.

The Politics Forum has a Mod that arbitrarily closes threads in the most dictatorial and utterly annoying fashion......

UberMod wrote:

Hmmm - I see you have started a thread that mentions X, Y, Z - Well we already have a thread from a week ago that mentions W, X - So I hardly see the point - L O C K E D

The glaring point that is being missed, is that the way Internet Message Boards actually work, threads that nobody has any interest in die a natural death - they disappear downwards and are soon gone........ For one opinionated Loudmouth to routinely close valid and potentially entertaining discussions on an uneducated personal whim is in my opinion almost obscene :mad:

Anyway - To get on topic - I believe that in June 2007 enough Gobshítes stood in polling booths across the Country and "knowingly" voted for Thieves, Cretins, morally vacuous Stooges and the downright ignorant - They did this while wearing a crooked smile on their inbred, pimply faces - a smile that said "I know who butters my bread"

W@nkers.

Fighting Irish

Raiser wrote: »

Anyway - To get on topic - I believe that in June 2007 enough Gobshítes stood in polling booths across the Country and "knowingly" voted for Thieves, Cretins, morally vacuous Stooges and the downright ignorant - They did this while wearing a crooked smile on their inbred, pimply faces - a smile that said "I know who butters my bread"

W@nkers.

I didn't thank you for this part of your post

oscarBravo

Thread closed. TheCandystripes, before you start another thread, please read the charter - particularly the bit where it says you should provoke discussion by contributing your own opinion, not just asking a question.

For those who have a problem with how this forum is moderated, take it to the Help Desk. That's pretty clearly spelled out in the charter too.