Give a gift of a goat this christmas?

Psydeshow

Hi all

I had been thinkin of gettin one of these 'gift of an animal' Christmas presents this year, but when I looked into it, almost all of the Irish charities at least send an Irish cow/goat/chicken/tree to these third world countries.

Now the moral debate of this type of gift aside. I just wonder about the ecological wisdom of giving an irish animal to, say, Kenya. A country to which it is in no way adapted, I would much rather see a gift of a regional variety of cow, calved and reared in or around the same region.

Secondly on the advertising there's a whole bunch of facts about how Irish cows produce "20 times as much nutritious milk" (for example) than local cows. Now maybe I'm massively wrong on this but is that not, partially at least, down to the lush grass and high quality feed we give our farm animals here?

I know we've bred high yielding varieties of just about everything but at the same time, when you imagine your Limousin or Frieisian cow she's standing in a very green field and there's probably dew on the grass. I know Africa/third world countries in general aint one big desert but by and large the countries involved are significantly hotter than here and, seasonally significantly drier than Ireland.

Just puttin it out there for discussion. What do y'all think and is there a charity which gives local varieties of animals?

(mods I hope this is the right place for the discussion, wasn't sure if it went under farming or what exactly)

spank_inferno

This has crossed my mind also.
They may not even do what they say they do,

I agree that sending an animal from Ireland to africa is really a waste of time.
Our better breeding of animals can improve yields, but give a good cow 6 months of eating try african grasslands and its yields will drop.

And besides, its not like Africa is short of animals to begin with.

Want high yielding animals?
Invest in better water capture and managent systems to improve existing grasslands, it would raise the yields of all animals then,

But if one would like to choose an animal I guess an ox may be best suited. as they are great draught animals too

Mahatma coat

I always thought that the goats were reared in the destination country.

I've been contemplating a goat meself what with bin Charges being what they are at the moment over here, Goats also seem to be much better Lawnmowers than Geese & Ducks who just seem to want to rip every shred of grass out of the lawn greedily

So anyone want to sponsor me a Goat???

auerillo

Having spent some time in Africa over the last 15 years, i wonder how the guys who thought up this particular idea get over he following;

(i) What happens when the animal gets sick?
(ii) how do you prevent Africans selling the animal or killing it for meat?

While it might seem like a wonderful gift to buy a cow or goat or chickens for the poorest in Africa, knowing Africa as I do, I suspect that many of the animals donated are simply sold by the recipients or killed for meat. And, if not, the poorest people in Africa have little hope pf being able to afford vet bills.

Sometimes we have to use our common sense and just because it's being done by a "charity" doesn't mean that it's sensible or a good use of your money.

While no doubt these people mean well, it is a little ironic that a substantial proportion of their aid goes to projects in Zimbabwe, and over the last few years many of the wild animals in Zimbabwe have been slaughtered by a hungry population, for food.

Macha

My favourite development gift/donation is Kiva - microlending:

www.kiva.org

Amhran Nua

taconnol wrote: »

My favourite development gift/donation is Kiva - microlending:

www.kiva.org

Yep, I'm in favour of switching over the majority of our foreign aid budget to microfinance as well.

On topic, a large animal like a cow or pig is generally kept as insurance against illness by farmers, from my own experiences helping people in third world countries. If it produces milk or eggs, thats a bonus. I'd be happier if there was some training that came with it though - half the chickens and pigs we dealt with were dead of preventable disease within a year.

Akrasia

When I was studying development in college, there was a case study of one North African tribe that were gifted western cattle to aid their development. Problem is the cattle ate much more grass and drank much more water then the local varieties and within a few years, destroyed their grasslands and led to the eventual destruction of the tribe itself.

(can't remember the specific details)

I think it's the definition of unintended consequences. It also applies to crops and other forms of western driven agricultural development that ignore the specific conditions of the local environment.

International development workers need to be extremely careful when they introduce changes to traditional practises

Macha

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Yep, I'm in favour of switching over the majority of our foreign aid budget to microfinance as well..

Whoa, that's not what I said!

I do believe in effective donations to deal with short-term problems while the longer-term issues are being sorted out (which will never happen because it involves us recognising the inequality of the existing system)

Amhran Nua

taconnol wrote: »

Whoa, that's not what I said!

Didn't say it was! Perhaps a comma might have made that sentence clearer.

taconnol wrote: »

I do believe in effective donations to deal with short-term problems while the longer-term issues are being sorted out (which will never happen because it involves us recognising the inequality of the existing system)

Well you clearly recognise the effectiveness of microfinance in improving conditions and increasing wealth in developing countries, short term problems could perhaps be better dealt with via emergency aid, food and supplies. I'm not sure I follow on the inequality?

Psydeshow

Akrasia wrote: »

When I was studying development in college, there was a case study of one North African tribe that were gifted western cattle to aid their development. Problem is the cattle ate much more grass and drank much more water then the local varieties and within a few years, destroyed their grasslands and led to the eventual destruction of the tribe itself.

Thats pretty much exactly what I was afraid of happening.

Macha

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Didn't say it was! Perhaps a comma might have made that sentence clearer.

Ah I get it

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Well you clearly recognise the effectiveness of microfinance in improving conditions and increasing wealth in developing countries, short term problems could perhaps be better dealt with via emergency aid, food and supplies. I'm not sure I follow on the inequality?

I believe the current global system of trade to be incredibly biased towards the West, leaving poorer countries constantly struggling with massive debt and post-colonial issues that have never been properly addressed. Then there's the ecological debt to consider.