over 60's victimisation (or ageism) in workplace.

leixlip_pa

hi all, i am over 60 and in good health t.g. whats the feeling about this type of victimisation (or ageism) in the workplace, i am the only one in the service section of the company that has been given temporary lay-off for four weeks without any pay even though the management say's that the service section is "holding it's own" financially.
i have 26 years of service with this company which is longer than any other serviceman.

eth0_

Could it simply be because you may earn the most in your particular section because you've been with the company longest?

I would have thought you'd be one of the last to be considered for redundancy if your work is meeting expectations as they'd have to give you one hell of a redundancy package compared to someone who hadn't been with the company for very long.

leixlip_pa

hi ethO, thanks for the reply, definitely not the highest earner, probably among the lowest earner.
you may have a point about the redundancy side of things, i had enquired about an early retirement package that was offered at a general meeting last april '09. after much discussion i was told that a rendundancy offer of statutary + two weeks for each year of service would be made to me but upon arriving at the meeting to accept this offer i was told that they could'nt follow through with the offer but that i could take statutary redundancy if i wanted it.
i declined this offer as i was happy to work on to retirement day (sept.'11).
since then there have been two other redundancy's in the company but no further discussion with me about early retirement or redundancy.

leixlip_pa

p.s. could this type of intimidation be described as "bullying"

wmpdd3

Bulling is defined as:

“Behaviour by an individual or group, usually repeated over time, that
intentionally hurts another individual or group either physically or emotionally”.

From what you have said you may be treated unfairly but prob not bulling.

You should get into the habit of keeping a note of dates and time of interaction between you and managers such as how much was offered and when in relation to redundancy. treatment of others compared to you...

leixlip_pa

hi mpddd3, thanks for the advice, it is good to be reminded of these things even though we think of them as routine. we cant alway's rely on memory.
yes, there certainly have been some other issues regarding an early retirement offer and a subsequent redundancy offer that was'nt attractive enough suffice to say that the discussion led nowhere and i agreed to work on.

wmpdd3

With 26 years service what ever you do don't just leave.

You deserve to be treated with respect in your position. You need to somehow get your issues accross. I presume there isn't a HR rep you can contact, maybe a manager you have had a good relationship with?

With the temp lay off, you can claim social welfare for this as far as I know.

(I got paid years ago when a factory shut for 2 weeks in August but I had no hols to take)

I think you defiantly need a trip to the citizens Information center as you have a complicated situation as you are so near to retirement age. Any wrong decisions made now could de-value the 26 years service you have put in.

Most places make decisions based on seniority so you should make sure you benefit under this agreement.

leixlip_pa

thanks wmpdd 3, i wonder if there is free legal aid available to take this case further? as i am so close to retirement age i would hate to let them (management) think they will get away with this treatment. or maybe they just know they will get away with treating people this way!

Mrs OBumble

Are you sure it's actually victimisation though? (You'll have to prove it is ... they could say that they drew your name out of a hat.)

Management may have known that they needed to stand someone down for a few weeks while it was quiet over Christmas, and made a choice between someone who's had years of employment to pay off their mortgage, vs others with young families to support and only a year or to into their mortgage.

wmpdd3

JustMary wrote: »

Are you sure it's actually victimisation though? (You'll have to prove it is ... they could say that they drew your name out of a hat.)

Management may have known that they needed to stand someone down for a few weeks while it was quiet over Christmas, and made a choice between someone who's had years of employment to pay off their mortgage, vs others with young families to support and only a year or to into their mortgage.

I know you are offering this as help, but in my experience this selection process for temp lay off would contravene workers rights.

Mrs OBumble

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I know you are offering this as help, but in my experience this selection process for temp lay off would contravene workers rights.

Yup, it would. And absolutely it's horrible for the OP.

But still, if I was a manager and had to choose between the older guy who's have to pay for his beers from his savings for a month, or the younger guy with a new bably who'd probably miss a mortgage payment and maybe lose his house, I know who I'd pick.

Jo King

JustMary wrote: »

Yup, it would. And absolutely it's horrible for the OP.

But still, if I was a manager and had to choose between the older guy who's have to pay for his beers from his savings for a month, or the younger guy with a new bably who'd probably miss a mortgage payment and maybe lose his house, I know who I'd pick.

How would an employer know anything about an employees financial position? Why should the employer know? Why should an employee be means tested by his employer? An older employee may have a sick relative to support, may have a run down house to repair before retirement etc. The younger on may have a partner with a good job, have a part time job etc.

antoinolachtnai

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I know you are offering this as help, but in my experience this selection process for temp lay off would contravene workers rights.

I don't know if it would. It could well be allowable to consider the employee's general circumstances although I'd imagine it could lead to trouble too. All depends.

Mrs OBumble

Jo King wrote: »

How would an employer know anything about an employees financial position? Why should the employer know? Why should an employee be means tested by his employer? An older employee may have a sick relative to support, may have a run down house to repair before retirement etc. The younger on may have a partner with a good job, have a part time job etc.

At a minimum, from chatting to them about life in general. Any manager worthy of the title keeps an eye on employees personal lives (based on what the employee says to them - not on spying!), so they can be aware of likely pressure points, sensitive issues, and unhappiness's with the work environment. If the manager knows that a problem is arising, they can at least think about small workplace behaviours that make life easiser. (eg heading off insensitive conversation in the tea-room if someone's in the process of a messy divorce). They also have early warning if someone's likely to leave, and this contributes to managing risks around this.

I agree that employers shouldn't make assumptions. But am pointing out that some will.

antoinolachtnai

The employer has to be able to justify the criteria as being in some way objective though.

It is a ropey area.

But on the other hand, criteria such as 'last in first out' are also potentially ropey.

The fact that the service area is 'holding its own' does not mean it won't face any layoffs or redundancies. Quite likely, other areas of the business are making losses and cuts need to be made overall to bring things into line. This is legitimate enough.

If you did take action, you would probably be looking at a visit to the equality tribunal.

I doubt you will get any free legal aid on this. You could talk to Age Action and see if they see any possibilities in it. I would be reluctant to spend much money on legal advice if I were you. Even if you win, you will still most likely end up paying your own costs. You also need to think about what is the most you could possibly win, and whether it is worth it.

I would be very careful here though. You might get back to work in February and the whole thing might be forgotten about.

leixlip_pa

thanks to all who participated in this thread. well i continued to be laid off for what is now the fourth month in succession. i asked for a meeting to discuss the situation. i brought a friend with me to take notes. i asked for a settlement from the company if they could'nt take me back to work (carefully not being drawn into asking for redundancy!!!).
the outcome is that after three further meetings (making sure to take notes of everything as suggested earlier) i got a settlement from the company which i accepted.
not a pleasent finale to 26 years ( trouble free and no complaints ) service, but there you have it. we are all just numbers in the grander scheme of things.
now i have joined the masses on the dole and am on the lookout for a new challenge.