leaking sewer pipe

km79

hi long story short i think water is getting into pvc pipe leading into septic tank. no water in manhole covers at path yet water flowing in to tank . this is a problem as i have the puraflo system meaning pump is running too much and peat is getting wet in modules.
house is 3 years old and drainage is extremely poor (sorting it in spring)
would a cctv survey be the way to go ? and if anyone knows companies and price pm me please . i live in county galway

km79

help !!!

mossfort

something dosnt sound right.
the sewer pipe might be damaged leading to septic tank .
did you try putting rods down the line from the manhole towards septic tank to see if pipe is crushed .
if you need a camera inspection theres dyno rod in galway

mickdw

Does it look like water seeping into the pipe or is there a good flow? It may be that there is a rubber seal missing in a joint of the sewer pipe running to the tank. Lazy groundworker have been known to leave them out and it might never cause a problem. If the ground gets completely waterlogged around the pipe, it might lead to the problem you describe. You would have to have significant flow for you to notice a difference in how much the pump is staying on.
Sometimes there might be a Access junction fitted near the tank. I have seen these fitted and then covered over instead of being brought up to ground level. If something like that was done in your case, water would get in when the ground became saturated.
Are you sure there is not something connected into the pipework by mistake?

km79

thanks for the replies there is a constant flow! it is clear water i am beginning to wonder if the downpipes are connected to it but would hope not.
if the pipe was cracked would the water be running clear after it had come down thru soil i would imagine it would not be as clear as it is?

Poor Uncle Tom

If the system is built in accordance with the regulations then there is a manhole at the house side gathering all pipework before heading to the tank and there is a manhole before entering the tank. Open both manholes and see if the water is flowing in one, both or neither. If the system is constructed properly then the downpipes are not directed to the same syatem.

km79

manhole at path empty, manhole near tank clear wtaer flowing

Poor Uncle Tom

If there is not another pipe joining on in between, which there shouldn't be, then either a pipe is crushed leaving ground water in or the ground water is getting in at a bad joint.

A drain camera is a very good idea.

Edit: Moved from Prices/Costs to the main C&P Forum which is more suitable given the content.

km79

thanks ill probably just have to get that done so. is it up to me to pay for that or builder ( any idea how much it will cost)? and if a fault is found who is responsible

Poor Uncle Tom

You need to carry out the survey to be able to aportion blame, if needs be.
The company doing the cctv survey will give you a DVD of their findings which can be used by your solicitor to chase any potential guilty party. But that is legal stuff which we do not deal with in this forum.

ttm

If you have the time and want to try and get a better understanding of the problem and where it might be along the pipe run you can get an indication with a set (or two) of drain rods.

With the largest rubber end that will fit the pipe very slowly rod it from the bottom up and when the flow is not impeaded by moving the rods back and forward is a good place to mark as where the problem might be (count drain rods then measure from the manhole). You might also notice if the pipe has been crushed as you soon get a feel for how easy the rods are to push or otherwise. Something else you might spot is a manhole that is covered up; as you push the drain rods up the pipe you might notice a spot where its very easy to push them for about 50cm and then you need a firm shove too get going again, that can be the rods entering the manhole section (easy to push) and then having to be forced back into the pipe again.

All depends on your drains, how deep they are and the ease of access but you can often learn a lot without having to spend money on cctv, if a section needs digging up most builders will get a JCB into do the job so you'll be digging up a big area anyway.

If the drains are shallow (a possible reason for them being damaged) then if you get an idea of where the problem is you can always get digging by hand and save a lot of mess, you don't need to uncover a whole run to fix a damaged section with a new piece of pipe and a couple of slip conectors.

Even water that starts off muddy will often look like tap water once it gets into your sewer pipe.

You said you site was wet and if the pipes don't have the correct "foundation" then they can sink and sag which will show up any badly made joints very quickly as any joint not pushed home correctly can open up. You'd often notice if the pipes had sunk as the drains tend to block a lot more easily so you'd have had to get the rods out already.

Before digging up the garden, have you checked that none of the toilet cisterns are overflowing!

km79

there is no water in the manholes at path only in the one down the garden so i dint think it would be the toilet cistern?

ttm

If you do have a leaking cistern in the house then there's a chance there is a manhole hidden somewhere. So if you do have a leaky cistern then try turning the house water off and see if the water stops flowing in the sewer pipe. In fact if you have a stop tap outside your property try turning it off to see if the water stops in the sewer anyway just to rule out a break in the supply pipe?

km79

ill give that a try sure cant hurt but im not optimistic

ttm

km79 wrote: »

ill give that a try sure cant hurt but im not optimistic

Even if it changes nothing you at least know the problem isn't a leak on the mains water side.

mickdw

Seeing as you say the manhole at the house is dry and the one further down is running, Could it be that someone has connected a land drain or something as an after thought and and easy way out, thinking that it would only be carrying minor flows. You now say that the ground is pretty much flooded. Worth checking for hidden connections anyway

km79

yes mick beginning to wonder about that myself is cctv the only way then to check that

km79

got cctv done this morning. did not show up any major cracks or breakages. only thing is it was freezing this morning so ground water that may have been seeping in was probably frozen! dont know what to check next its getting in somehow

muffler

Just a thought but you could consider putting some dye into your rainwater gulleys, hose them down and then look to see if there is any dyed water appearing in the manhole nearest the tank. It would eliminate that possibility.

Unfortunately you picked a bad morning for the cctv inspection.

km79

yeah thanks will give that a go tried to put the camera down the rainwater gullies to see where they go but could not get it in but i dont think they are connected to tank pipe

ttm

km79 wrote: »

got cctv done this morning. did not show up any major cracks or breakages. only thing is it was freezing this morning so ground water that may have been seeping in was probably frozen! dont know what to check next its getting in somehow

Would have to be a whole lot colder unless it was just surface water draining in.

So where did the CCTV show the water flow as having started?

Did you follow what was going on so you could see where any other pipes joined into this run?

km79

yeah i watched it no other pipes joined up along the way. there was no water flow worth talking about this morning so could not work out where its coming from .

ttm

So I'd still be checking ball and float valves on toilets etc.

During the day when water pressure is down a bit due to everyone using it everything could be OK but at night when the water pressure goes up and your not using anything internally to lower the water level in a cistern somewhere then you might be getting something somewhere overflowing?

Was there any pressure test done on the pipework before commisioning?

I'd be tempted to do my own pressure test and see if there was a bad conection.

km79

ttm wrote: »

So I'd still be checking ball and float valves on toilets etc.

how exactly do i check? the water levels in one of the cisterns does look higher than the others but would i not hear the cistern constantly filling/emptying?

km79

km79 wrote: »

ttm wrote: »

So I'd still be checking ball and float valves on toilets etc.

how exactly do i check? the water levels in one of the cisterns does look higher than the others but would i not hear the cistern constantly filling/emptying?

Is the cistern one of the mewer types with the silent filling system and the overflow going down the toilet, if so the water should be about 3cm below the top of the pipe in the centre. The float valve can be slid up and down to set the water level.

ttm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the cistern one of the mewer types with the silent filling system and the overflow going down the toilet, if so the water should be about 3cm below the top of the pipe in the centre. The float valve can be slid up and down to set the water level.

My thought was that during the day these could be OK and fill correctly but when the water pressure at night goes up then the valves could leak a bit and start over flowing. You'd hardly notice the problem with the type that dolanbaker describes unless you checked inside the cistern before it was flushed first thing in the morning. It could just be leaky anyway and need the float adjusting.

Main thing would be to check anything you have with a float valve in it and to try and find out where any overflow will go if the valve doesn't close off correctly. The central heating and the cold water header tank also need checking if these have an overflow which is directed to a drain.

Could be a wild goose chase but all useful info and experience if you have a plumbing disaster in the future.