does any public sector worker agree with the cuts to a certain degree?

bmmck

I am a ps worker and to be honest I do agree with certain amount of cuts but not to the people on less that 35k per year which I am one of. I was prepared to accept the income levy and the pension levy it was hard but I could handle it if I was careful but now there is another 5% on top of that...... for god sake there was an article on the paper few months ago about a married couple in dublin with 3 kids on long term social welfare collection 32k a year on benefits! thats way more than I get in a year! I understand the outrage in the country about certain ps workers, but the problem is at the top they are way too overpaid, dont paint us all with the one brush.

amacachi

bmmck wrote: »

I am a ps worker and to be honest I do agree with certain amount of cuts but not to the people on less that 35k per year which I am one of. I was prepared to accept the income levy and the pension levy it was hard but I could handle it if I was careful but now there is another 5% on top of that...... for god sake there was an article on the paper few months ago about a married couple in dublin with 3 kids on long term social welfare collection 32k a year on benefits! thats way more than I get in a year! I understand the outrage in the country about certain ps workers, but the problem is at the top they are way too overpaid, dont paint us all with the one brush.

Shock.

Trouble is that leaving ye alone would've left too big of a hole.

P. Breathnach

bmmck wrote: »

I am a ps worker and to be honest I do agree with certain amount of cuts but not to the people on less that 35k per year which I am one of. ...

It's easy to be in favour of cuts in other people's pay.

I know public service people who are broadly in favour of cuts, including the cuts in their own pay. Less surprisingly, I also know some who are against them.

seclachi

I dont think any sane person could sit down and look at the figures and think there should be some form of public sector cuts. I dont think pay cuts in general were the way to go though, theres alot of waste in there and it needs to be sorted. Cut everybodys wages and you punish the good and bad, and drive productivity down, if you cut unproductive people though other people tend to work harder out of concern for there own job (and they may feel some sense of vindication from the officer slacker being dropped). Its very harsh but I think its whats needed. If you just take a % off the top, you`ll find the same problems mean you have to take another % off the top the next year and people start rioting

FlutterinBantam

Good, so we'll just keep borrowing €500m a week then shall we?

Adey2002

My missus works in the public sector and while she's not happy with her cut (5% as she's below 30k) she accepts it has to happen.

What she still gets (which I think is ridiculous) is:
A 35 hour week
An hour every 2 weeks to cash her pay check (which is paid directly into the bank).?!

and the big one..
800 odd a year in travel allowance (she works fulll time in a sub branch, HQ is in Dublin city so she gets allowance to travel from dublin city to this sub branch even though we live 2 minutes away from said branch.

It's crazy!

astrofool

Union contracts are completely and utterly insane.

The answer, as said above, would have been to have smaller cuts and get rid of all the dossers, but if you are a member of a union, you must accept that you will be graded by the least common denominator, as they will get the same treatment and money as you. This is also how the public perceives you.

This is why the union movement has mostly died out worldwide, most people, believe it or not, like to be held accountable for their own actions, and like to see that they have the capability to get ahead through their own work, not due to sitting in a chair the longest out of all your colleagues.

irish_bob

seclachi wrote: »

I dont think any sane person could sit down and look at the figures and think there should be some form of public sector cuts. I dont think pay cuts in general were the way to go though, theres alot of waste in there and it needs to be sorted. Cut everybodys wages and you punish the good and bad, and drive productivity down, if you cut unproductive people though other people tend to work harder out of concern for there own job (and they may feel some sense of vindication from the officer slacker being dropped). Its very harsh but I think its whats needed. If you just take a % off the top, you`ll find the same problems mean you have to take another % off the top the next year and people start rioting

drive productivity down , surely being in a rescession means you work harder for less

P. Breathnach

astrofool wrote: »

Union contracts are completely and utterly insane.

The answer, as said above, would have been to have smaller cuts and get rid of all the dossers, but if you are a member of a union, you must accept that you will be graded by the least common denominator, as they will get the same treatment and money as you. This is also how the public perceives you.

This is why the union movement has mostly died out worldwide, most people, believe it or not, like to be held accountable for their own actions, and like to see that they have the capability to get ahead through their own work, not due to sitting in a chair the longest out of all your colleagues.

How does that answer bmmck's question?

Adey2002

astrofool wrote: »

Union contracts are completely and utterly insane.

This is why the union movement has mostly died out worldwide, most people, believe it or not, like to be held accountable for their own actions, and like to see that they have the capability to get ahead through their own work, not due to sitting in a chair the longest out of all your colleagues.

I agree, I think the concept of blackmailing the very organisation that's giving you the opportunity to put food on the table, and a roof over your head is ridiculous. Employee rights are already catered for without the need for Unions via contracts of employment.

seclachi

irish_bob wrote: »

drive productivity down , surely being in a rescession means you work harder for less

It does, but if your job is guaranteed your not going to care about doing that bit less in the end, and if everybody does it management cant do much about it. Even in the private sector its the same, your not going to stay on that 15 extra minutes or offer up that good idea if you feel gyped.

Adey2002

seclachi wrote: »

Even in the private sector its the same.

I disagree. In the private sector, you'd just be made redundant.

In the Public sector you can expect to be promoted to your level of incompetance. - As soon as you're promoted to a position you're unable to do - that's the job you'll do for the rest of your career. You won't get demoted, promoted or sacked.

nice_guy80

yeah, i agree with cuts to public sector pay. it had to happen

however the cuts have not been applied fairly across the PS. cannot believe those in higher areas didn't take a bigger cut. unreal that higher earners in the private sector were not taxed a bit more

and the ministers and government worming their way out of a proper pay cut. those people do not live in reality. they have not had to pay for diesel, food, a car etc for the past 9-10 years. i think they are seriously divorced from reality

astrofool

nice_guy80 wrote: »

yeah, i agree with cuts to public sector pay. it had to happen

however the cuts have not been applied fairly across the PS. cannot believe those in higher areas didn't take a bigger cut. unreal that higher earners in the private sector were not taxed a bit more

and the ministers and government worming their way out of a proper pay cut. those people do not live in reality. they have not had to pay for diesel, food, a car etc for the past 9-10 years. i think they are seriously divorced from reality

I think this was to protect the ex PS pensioners who would usually have retired on a high rate of pay. They usually vote.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How does that answer bmmck's question?

The insanity of union contracts had been mentioned in the thread, and unless I'm mistaken, there's no moderator tag under your username, if you disagree with a post, please report it, and let the real mods do their job.

itsallaboutme!!

im a ps worker and i am fully prepared to take a pay cut what has to be done has to be done BUT i dont think the cuts have been fairly spread out. the higher paid are not going to feel the hit as much as those at the lower end of the scale.

i read in the paper this evening brian cowan is taking a cut of 110,000e but he is still gonna take home about 4 times what i will so i doubt he'll miss that few quid.

Seth Brundle

itsallaboutme!! wrote: »

i read in the paper this evening brian cowan is taking a cut of 110,000e but he is still gonna take home about 4 times what i will so i doubt he'll miss that few quid.

Thats nonsense about the cut! He would never do that

square leg

I am a teacher and I am in favour of the cuts - they had to be done and that's it. Contrary to a lot of the posters I believe they had to applied across all of the ps. Please remember that statistics show that the gap between the private sector and the public sector is greatest in the lower paid sectors not the highest paid ones - how for example are you going to get genuinely talented people into financial regulation unless you pay them something close to what they could earn in the financial sector.
Maybe now the govt will take on the unions and introduce real competition in the ps (especially in my profession) where merit will be the criteria for promotion not your age.
I must also point out that most of my colleagues work very hard but unfortunately they have to carry the 25% of those who talk about working hard and professionalism but do not practice what they preach!!
Finally the ASTI can f**k off if they think I am going to strike in the new year.
I think all sectors have proved themselves very selfish in the last few months but I find it particularly nauseating that my profession wraps its selfishness in concern for the students when its all about money in the pocket!!!:mad:

murphaph

square leg wrote: »

I am a teacher and I am in favour of the cuts - they had to be done and that's it. Contrary to a lot of the posters I believe they had to applied across all of the ps. Please remember that statistics show that the gap between the private sector and the public sector is greatest in the lower paid sectors not the highest paid ones - how for example are you going to get genuinely talented people into financial regulation unless you pay them something close to what they could earn in the financial sector.
Maybe now the govt will take on the unions and introduce real competition in the ps (especially in my profession) where merit will be the criteria for promotion not your age.
I must also point out that most of my colleagues work very hard but unfortunately they have to carry the 25% of those who talk about working hard and professionalism but do not practice what they preach!!
Finally the ASTI can f**k off if they think I am going to strike in the new year.
I think all sectors have proved themselves very selfish in the last few months but I find it particularly nauseating that my profession wraps its selfishness in concern for the students when its all about money in the pocket!!!:mad:

Fair play. How many of your colleagues do you reckon have a similar outlook to yourself?

#15

murphaph wrote: »

Fair play. How many of your colleagues do you reckon have a similar outlook to yourself?

I do. As I have said before!
I'm a primary teacher, think the cuts are fair, and I also think the INTO are clueless. Have never been a member, never will. They're an embarrassment sometimes. As is the sense of entitlement from some of my colleagues.

But its also pretty annoying to see so many idiotic posts about the PS on boards. It stops me from posting too much in favour of educational reforms, as it only gets seized upon by idiots.

fikay

I too work in the PS and agree to a large extent with the last two posters in so far as I accept that in the current climate certain pay cuts were inevitable, however I genuinely feel it was an opportunity lost in that what is needed is systemic reform.
Despite what some posters on here would have you believe, there are dedicated and talented public servants in this country. I can also say that some of my co workers are the laziest wasters I have ever come across, and are imposable to get rid of.
I, at 25, have signed a contract which guarantees me a wage until I'm 65 and a very decent pension after that. That is utterly ridiculous. If I feel like it I can just show up to work for the next 40 years and collect my wages at the end of the week. No wonder people are angry, but an ad-hoc wage cut fixes nothing.

square leg

murphaph
What surprised us in my school was the large majority in favour of action in the ASTI ballot as not one of my colleagues whom I respect (and they are the majority) voted in favour of a strike - we know we are lucky not just to have a job but one that most of us enjoy!!

I know a lot of people in other schools through our school sport and I have yet to meet someone who is in favour of a strike
I also agree with the primary school teacher - there are a hell of a lot of good people in the ps but its very difficult to challenge someone who is telling you how hard we are all working and say you f**king aren't!! There just is simply not a culture of accountability - ITS ALL DOWN TO INDIVIDUAL MOTIVATION AS THE UNIONS HAVE KILLED INITIATIVE.

square leg

Fikay you are dead right about the PS - lets start a revolution and introduce the concept of merit!! BTW I am 41 and have been teaching for 20 years.

imme

astrofool wrote: »

Union contracts are completely and utterly insane.

eh, what's a union contract exactly?

nesf

I've talked to a few public sector workers who are in my extended family/friends and they were broadly in favour of the cuts in that they recognised the necessity of cutting the public sector wage bill. One of the older ones remarked that it didn't bother him much because of the deflation he could see in his regular shopping. He remarked that in the 70s and 80s when there was really high inflation and knows intuitively that your nominal pay (i.e. in Euros) isn't as important as your real pay (i.e. how much stuff you can buy with your wage packet) and doesn't feel like it's really a cut in his real pay.

For younger public sector workers who haven't earned a wage during periods of very high inflation/interest rates I don't think this concept will have gotten through to them yet so they may feel more cheated.

CiaranC

bmmck wrote: »

I am a ps worker and to be honest I do agree with certain amount of cuts but not to the people ... which I am one of.

And this, my friends, sums up the PS attitude entirely.

nesf

Guys, please don't derail this thread into yet another thread bitching about unions!

#15

CiaranC wrote: »

And this, my friends, sums up the PS attitude entirely.

You must have missed the few PS posts above you.

mikemac

bmmck wrote: »

I am a ps worker and to be honest I do agree with certain amount of cuts but not to the people on less that 35k per year which I am one of.

Well that's not saying much at all, you agree with some cuts but certainly not more cuts for you.
Of course people will be concerned and look out for their own situation but I wouldn't be posting here calling for cuts for everyone except me

InReality

Adey2002 wrote: »

I disagree. In the private sector, you'd just be made redundant.

In the Public sector you can expect to be promoted to your level of incompetance. - As soon as you're promoted to a position you're unable to do - that's the job you'll do for the rest of your career. You won't get demoted, promoted or sacked.

You mean The Peter Principle ?
Applies to private sector too i'm afraid .. there if you are leave/are sacked from job as a manager from company A , head over to company B , they think ah I see your a manager from A , would you like a job here ?

Once your a "senior manager" thats all that matters.

OT.

Yes I agree with the cuts. In fact would have increased them by half for all the ones on 35k+ , (and i'm in that group ).

pah

Yes, generally I do. I've taken a 5.52% pay cut in my basic which has me down €2095. The other increases in health, income and pension levy do all add up though. Quite a big difference from last year.

I see the need for cuts to address the defecit and I don't think they were unfair.

What about next years €4 Billion though? Another 5% cut?

pah

CiaranC wrote: »

And this, my friends, sums up the PS attitude entirely.

And this my friends sums up the Private Sector attitude to the PS attitude entirely

jimmycrackcorm

pah wrote: »

What about next years €4 Billion though? Another 5% cut?

Next year will be PS Reform which will include redundancies. Standardising working hours for example to reduce overtime pay, centralizing IT and so on.

I'd like to see the whole increment system dropped too and replaced by a system of merited increases. The Bell Curve would seem appropriate for the Public Service.