John Cena: Is it personal?

SlickRic

this comes from the discussion in the 'Shawn Michaels' thread. and please BH, move comments over if necessary.

a thread about John Cena comes up once, maybe twice a year i reckon.

but i need to ask...

do people have a problem with him? what he stands for (PG)?

my stance is it's not his fault he's booked like he is by Vince, in a PG-era. he works exceptionally well in the role he's saddled with. he was over before this era with his 'rapper' gimmick, and is over now in his All-American, never quit/superman gimmick. he still gets the best reactions from the live crowd, whether boos or cheers.

he is an excellent worker, a great entertainer, doesn't NEED to be carried like many will lazily say (see Lashley, Khali, RVD)

and also in the long running feuds with Orton and Edge in particular, he did more than his fair share, with people still thinking he was carried, without actually understanding the role of the babyface in these encounters.

so is it just people's frustrations with PG? or do people genuinely believe he isn't any good? or do people just have a grudge against him?

because i think he's an awesome talent.

and Ric Flair said so too...

EdK

John Cena works really hard is great for charity and everything else no problem with the guy personally just tired of seeing the same old superhuman act in the main events for the last 4-5 years

davrho

To be honest I think its the 16-22 year old wrestling fans throwing a hissy fit because they dont want to be associated with a kids product. They see Cena as the kids favorite and use him to direct their anger.

Gillette have no problem using Cena as a face for their products (unless American kids shave earlier too?) so this tells me he has a large following of grown up males.

The "superman" type character has always been a wwe trait. Its not exactly new.

Just a point from wweshopzone.com on the other thread.. The stats they post are the sales through online shopping and dont include arena sales.

JP Liz

I'm a fan of Cena.

He has pretty much been the face of the WWE for most of the 00s and while he is not the best technical wrestler he is definitely one of the most hardworking. He gives everything he has every night. I got nothing but respect for him.

Rud3Bwoy

good worker trash in the ring no in ring ability,guys who have real talent in the ring are being left behind why?because of people like cena,then again i can't blame wwe

IT IS ENTERTAINMENT NOW,they don't care about actual wrestling and how you perform in the ring

they care about who sells the most.

D2D

I don't like Cena but I respect the hell outta him.

He works his *** off for the company all year and he always grants wishes for the Make-A-Wish charity.

Personally, I'm sick of seeing Super-Cena always "overcoming the odds" and using "the 5 moves of doom".

Rjd2

davrho wrote: »

The "superman" type character has always been a wwe trait. Its not exactly new.

.

It’s not only Cena who does the superhero comeback though Dav. I watched JBL v HBK from the Rumble a few weeks ago, and this was the structure of the match, JBL beats the **** out of him for 95% of it, then HBK does the exact same comeback he does every match and wham bam thank you mam sweet chin music and HBK walks of fresh as a daisy despite been destroyed for 10 solid minutes.
He done the same trick at HIAC when he was killed for 10 minutes by Legacy, bam then he sees Hunter and you guessed it; he hits sweet chin music and walks of fresh as a daisy. This is not a HBK rant but everyone has their own so called five moves of doom finishing procedure whether it is Taker, HBK, Hunter and most especially Jeff. It works as well.

Riddle101

I'd have to see it is Vince McMahon, the guy is off his rocker and delusional. He seems to believe that we're all robots who can be told who to cheer and who to boo, that we can so easily be made believe what he wants. The reason why Stone Cold and The Rock got over was because WWE was more relaxed in creating stars, back then. They listened to the fans and knew what to do with them. Now, the fans mean nothing to Vince, all he wants is to control things. I'll be happy when he retires because I hope Stephanie McMahon does/can change it, and make it better. But the reason I mentioned Vince, is because Vince shoves John Cena down our thoats. He makes Cena out to be Superman like Hulk Hogan was. But the problem between now and Hogan's time is kayfabe is dead now and the internet has destroyed people's belief in wrestling. Can anyone see Undertaker getting over as the Deadman in this time? Anyway I just think Vince is the reason why people hate on Cena, Cena is Vince's Crown Jewel and thereore Vince tries ot make Cena out to be the greatest when he he shouldn't be pressured like that. He should just go with the flow and allow Cena to be himself. He got over pretty well with his rapper gimmick so it goes to say he can get over by himself.

Paulegend

and Rick Flair said so too.......................:D


no seriously i think Cena is great at what he does. I never once critisised his work rate. i believe if he was around in the attitude era he would have fitted in perfect(but only in a different gimmick).

i think the stick that Cena gets is definitly because of the Pg-rating. the whole superman thing is just soooooooooooooo anoying. he can go out and pick up Bigshow and someone else(i forget who the other person he lifted at the same time. tempted to say hhh but not sure and too lazy to check) at the same time and then go out and get beaten all around the ring by the miz?????????????????????????? come on this whole gimmick is tired. people have a right to be pi##ed with it.

what really pi##es me off is could you see Cena(in this gimmick) survive through this era....................................

D2D

Rjd2 wrote: »

It’s not only Cena who does the superhero comeback though Dav. I watched JBL v HBK from the Rumble a few weeks ago, and this was the structure of the match, JBL beats the **** out of him for 95% of it, then HBK does the exact same comeback he does every match and wham bam thank you mam sweet chin music and HBK walks of fresh as a daisy despite been destroyed for 10 solid minutes.
He done the same trick at HIAC when he was killed for 10 minutes by Legacy, bam then he sees Hunter and you guessed it; he hits sweet chin music and walks of fresh as a daisy. This is not a HBK rant but everyone has their own so called five moves of doom finishing procedure whether it is Taker, HBK, Hunter and most especially Jeff. It works as well.

Wasn't that at No Way Out??

It's very true with "the 5 moves of doom" though, everyone has their own.

It true they say about Cena thou, no-one creates a re-action like Cena does

EdK

Most wrestlers have a moveset which is pretty much the same week in week out and usually in the same order but why is it so much more obvious when Cena does it? haha

Paulegend

EdK wrote: »

Most wrestlers have a moveset which is pretty much the same week in week out and usually in the same order but why is it so much more obvious when Cena does it? haha

i think its because Cena's moveset is so limited. although he has improved on it over the last year or so.


i would just really love to see him change his image. he is just too boring

TheCandystripes

Lets see screams at the pitch of his voice in order to come across as intense!
dresses like a 5 year old.
is a schizophrenic mix between a marine and a wannabe gangster
superman
5 moves of doom
been a face for 6 years


but if he wasnt around wrestling would be worse off. i like cena.

Paulegend

TheCandystripes wrote: »

Lets see screams at the pitch of his voice in order to come across as intense!
dresses like a 5 year old.
is a schizophrenic mix between a marine and a wannabe gangster
superman
5 moves of doom

but if he wasnt around wrestling would be worse off. i like cena.

thank you youve just made my day:D i love this post haha

waltersobchak

For me, i think John Cena is a great ambassador for the WWE, like all the charity stuff he does for make a wish etc etc is phenomenal... and deserves alot of respect, he also seems like a humble decent person, But as far as the John Cena "character" i cant stand him, and i can pin point the moment from which i turned sour on him, the week he moved from Smackdown to Raw, that night he turned from being a pretty enjoyable watch on smackdown to being upgraded into a mix of Austin/Rock/Hogan all combined... by having him fued with Bischoff (Austin/McMahon) giving him a Rock style promo with loads of catchphrases(which he didnt really do so ridiculously on Smackdown) and then giving him the Superman/Hogan finishes.. and it seems like most of the male audience copped on to this and turned on him soon afterwards(cause theres no doubt he was over with everyone on Smackdown)


But i do think he is a good wrestler, my biggest problem is that he's has basically been cutting the same promo for the last 2 years.. talks about people booing him.. says hes still standing, starts shouting, says hes still standing, the champ is here, etc etc same **** every time

waltersobchak

Heres an example that Cena was pretty cool and actually edgy when he was on Smackdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb-fmcZLIP8

Paulegend

link was disabled

rossie1977

Rud3Bwoy wrote: »

good worker trash in the ring no in ring ability,guys who have real talent in the ring are being left behind why?because of people like cena,then again i can't blame wwe

IT IS ENTERTAINMENT NOW,they don't care about actual wrestling and how you perform in the ring

they care about who sells the most.

IT IS ENTERTAINMENT NOW, and there i was thinking i saw cyndi lauper dancing around in the middle of the ring, king kong bundy wrestling midgets and mr t playing his character off tv in 1985, doink the clown (must have been an illusion), mantaur, kwang,gobbledygooker......................??? christ the biggest match vince has ever booked had hogan and andre stinking up the arena, did either even pull off one wrestling hold in that match??

vince jrs federation has ALWAYS been a comic book/cartoon superhero show from day one

ironically vince seems to have focused more on in-ring product these days than at any time in the past, if you watch ppvs from the late 80s many of the matches are sub 5 minutes in length, today most wwe ppvs have numerous matches over 15 mins in length

Paulegend

rossie1977 wrote: »

IT IS ENTERTAINMENT NOW, and there i was thinking i saw cyndi lauper dancing around in the middle of the ring, king kong bundy wrestling midgets and mr t playing his character off tv in 1985, doink the clown (must have been an illusion), mantaur, kwang,gobbledygooker......................??? christ the biggest match vince has ever booked had hogan and andre stinking up the arena, did either even pull off one wrestling hold in that match??

vince jrs federation has ALWAYS been a comic book/cartoon superhero show from day one

i think youll find all those things have something in commen. that was known as the "gimmick age". and aparantly its suppose to be over for a very very long time now.

rossie1977

Paulegend wrote: »

i think youll find all those things have something in commen. that was known as the "gimmick age". and aparantly its suppose to be over for a very very long time now.

the gimmick age?? stop making stuff up, that was known as the golden era by wrestling historians, doink etc was the new generation

jaykhunter

SlickRic wrote: »

he is an excellent worker, a great entertainer, doesn't NEED to be carried like many will lazily say (see Lashley, Khali, RVD)

OK this particular jab annoyed me. Please explain why RVD is in the same boat as 'Black' Lesnar and Khali. (Is it going to be a verbatim Triple H 'consistency' reply?) RVD's lacklustre tenure in WWE -despite his obvious talents- (do I need to give examples of his amazing in-ring work in ECW and WWE?) is down to backstage friggin' politics. Please give examples of matches where RVD has been carried!

I don't enjoy Cena's matches because :
1) he's not technical, and I like mat-based/technical wrestlers or high-flyers, and he's neither
2) The way he was being booked (and occasionally still does) with getting squashed, over and over, oh! kick, FU, pin. Squash match w/swerve finish = no enjoyment for me. I get that Cena's "overcoming the odds" but for me an entertaining match needs to be evenly contested, where both men look strong.
3) His corny smile with his boring "shouty" promos about respect etc etc. His promos have no personal slant, it's like it's written and read out word-for-word. For example, you can tell that Jericho's promos are (or were, anyway) written by him because they felt so fresh. But Cena's stuff seems hackneyed and impersonal. It's like anyone could cut that promo and it'd sound the same...but no-one else could cut a Jericho promo, because it's obviously Jericho's material.
4) JBL is poopy.
5) He's had the same character for 5 years now. (this can be applied to other wrestlers too)
6) His STFU annoys the crap outta me. He's squeezing the opponent's face with his forearms = not a move.

To me he's a gormless face. I don't like straight-up faces, I think if he were a heel he'd be much more entertaining (see heel run circa 2003-4) and I'd enjoy seeing him on TV.

I understand why Cena's stayed the way he is (#1 guy in the company, it's what Vince wants, don't rock the boat) but I personally don't enjoy seeing him in general. I will say that he has gotten much better over the last two years. Despite being booked to wrestle the same guys over, and over, and over again, he's managed to put together some really interesting matches with Orton, a feat more impressive considering the limited number of moves that he avails of. (It wouldn't kill his "street cred" to break out a few suplexes or slams!)

That said, I really respect his crazy work ethic (having had two neck surgeries and serious muscle tears already) and how he's so reliable. I just hate his cheesy character and I don't enjoy his wrestling style. I hope he turns heel and wins me over character-wise.

jaykhunter

rossie1977 wrote: »

the gimmick age?? stop making stuff up, that was known as the golden era by wrestling historians, doink etc was the new generation

Hey, I'm trying to coin this generation as the PG-13 Era/PG Era. Whatcha think?

Paulegend

rossie1977 wrote: »

the gimmick age?? stop making stuff up, that was known as the golden era by wrestling historians, doink etc was the new generation

fine. the golden age it is. but im not actually talking about the golden era i am talking about the period of time between the 80;s(yes golden era) and up to about 95/96 when they stopped the cartoon characters. now instead of just trying to prove me wrong or say im making stuff up why dont you actually contribute to the conversation rather than just be annoying. yes i said it was known as the "gimmick age" but what i should have said was it was known for being the "gimmick age". it was the cartoon era with all these characters such as doink, mantaur, kwang, gobbledygooker and even Hulk Hogans superheroesque persona. yes i know that there where still characthers after this period one of the latest being the hurrican for example but they generally stopped the characters in the mid 90's.

so you iritation in my brain do you still feel im making stuff up or would you prefer to actually debate this or actually and this is just a suggestion......................... talk about John Cena

D2D

jaykhunter wrote: »

1) he's not technical, and I like mat-based/technical wrestlers or high-flyers, and he's neither

So do I. Cena is one of the more predictable wrestlers on the roster

jaykhunter wrote: »

2) The way he was being booked (and occasionally still does) with getting squashed, over and over, oh! kick, FU, pin. Squash match w/swerve finish = no enjoyment for me. I get that Cena's "overcoming the odds" but for me an entertaining match needs to be evenly contested, where both men look strong.

The Miz at The Bash sums Cena up pretty well to me.
Survivor Series 08 is another example. You'd swear God was arriving that night with the amount of hype about Cena.

jaykhunter wrote: »

3) His corny smile with his boring "shouty" promos about respect etc etc

It's "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" right?? I suppose it's a saying for the kids since we're in the TV-PG era. "Hustle" thou??

jaykhunter wrote: »

4) JBL is poopy.

TV-PG is the reason for that

jaykhunter wrote: »

5) He's had the same character for 5 years now.

Agreed, he really needs a change of character. Turn him heel even if it's for a month or 2.

jaykhunter wrote: »

6) His STFU annoys the crap outta me. He's squeezing the opponent's face with his forearms = not a move.

Yep, the amount of wrestlers taping out to it is unbelievable. Orton at Breaking Point is an example

rossie1977

debate what??

you hate john cena, me writing good stuff about him isn't going to change your mind, you after all are the guy who claimed there were 5000 at the rds for the summerbash tour in 2005 (even though you were not there) and nothing would change your mind :rolleyes:

jaykhunter

Sorry Paul, just gotta add in a little bit. Then back to Cena!

Wasn't the Golden Era of Wrestling in the like, 30s? I personally have this system :

• Hulkamania Era (83-93)
• New Generation Era (94-WM13)
• Attitude Era (WM13-WMX7)
• inVasion (WMX7-Sept 2002) (it's a short era, but ECW and WCW closed, were enveloped by WWE, had the inVasion angle, joined the WWF and WCW titles into the Undisputed Championship, and split into RAW and Smackdown separate brands with separate belts)
• Desire Era (September 2002-WM21)
• PG Era (WM21-Current)

Paulegend

rossie1977 wrote: »

debate what??

you hate john cena, me writing good stuff about him isn't going to change your mind, you after all are the guy who claimed there were 5000 at the rds for the summerbash tour in 2005 (even though you were not there) and nothing would change your mind :rolleyes:

o god your going to even drag this thread into that are you. look who is making stuff up now. i actually said it was up nearer the 13,500 mark as oppose to the 26,000. that was thrown out there. but id say if you where there you counted everyone though yea? you are really causing a bad headach right now. now talk about cena or go find another thread.

p.s. i dont hate cena at all. i think he was cool. but now is becoming a bore and im not the only one that feels that way. talking about cena is something this thread is for. having pops at me isnt.

Paulegend

jaykhunter wrote: »

Sorry Paul, just gotta add in a little bit. Then back to Cena!

Wasn't the Golden Era of Wrestling in the like, 30s? I personally have this system :

• Hulkamania Era (83-93)
• New Generation Era (94-WM13)
• Attitude Era (WM13-WMX7)
• inVasion (WMX7-Sept 2002) (it's a short era, but ECW and WCW closed, were enveloped by WWE, had the inVasion angle, joined the WWF and WCW titles into the Undisputed Championship, and split into RAW and Smackdown separate brands with separate belts)
• Desire Era (September 2002-WM21)
• PG Era (WM21-Current)

yes your right that the golden age was in the 30's or around then anyway. but i remember reading somewhere that the 80's where know as the second golden age. it was because of the transition that was taking place at the time. when it was moving from a sport to sports entertainment. so i dont know if it was officially considered a "golden age" but alot of people do consider it.

jaykhunter

Dare_2_defy wrote: »

The Miz at The Bash sums Cena up pretty well to me.

It's such a shame that the Miz and Cena had a squash match at the Bash - only PPV matches are ever remembered Cena really made Miz look amazing the next night on RAW. There was no good reason that the matches weren't reversed (squash on RAW, great showing at PPV). That's not Cena's fault though, it's booking. (of whom I blame Vince)

Dare_2_defy wrote: »

"4) JBL is poopy" - TV-PG is the reason for that

Maybe he should've wrote JBL loves (and drew a picture of a cockerel)

With regards to Orton tapping like crazy, it does annoy me when he taps really quickly - in a one-fall match. Surely he can stand the pain for at least a few seconds (at Breaking Point - wow. Just wow. He was almost tapping before the move was applied >:( ) I didn't enjoy the BP match, although others did. I feel obliged to say it, no-one should begrudge Orton tapping to the STFU so quickly in the Iron-Man match. Kayfabe-wise, if the submission is locked in (you can't escape), and you still have a while to go in the iron-man, tap out immediately so you sustain the least amount of injury possible (so you can continue the match)....same as in MMA (why risk breaking your arm or sustaining serious injury). You didn't mention it but I really want to get that point out there!

Paulegend

was actually the 50's. just after ww2

just googled it:D

DM_7

Cena is brilliant.

jaykhunter

Paulegend wrote: »

yes your right that the golden age was in the 30's or around then anyway. but i remember reading somewhere that the 80's where know as the second golden age. it was because of the transition that was taking place at the time. when it was moving from a sport to sports entertainment. so i dont know if it was officially considered a "golden age" but alot of people do consider it.

Agreed!

I wouldn't really consider anything before Hulkamania when I talk about wrestling, since it was a completely different beast back then. It's not how I view wrestling. That and it's before my time! I heard when Vince Sr was booking it was "one guy wins one week, the other wins the other week". Madness! Anyway where I'm going with this is Vince = wrestling as I know it today (I consider wrestling = American wrestling, which doesn't include Japanese Wrestling etc etc)

Paulegend

jaykhunter wrote: »

Agreed!

I wouldn't really consider anything before Hulkamania when I talk about wrestling, since it was a completely different beast back then. It's not how I view wrestling. That and it's before my time! I heard when Vince Sr was booking it was "one guy wins one week, the other wins the other week". Madness! Anyway where I'm going with this is Vince = wrestling as I know it today (I consider wrestling = American wrestling, which doesn't include Japanese Wrestling etc etc)

def know what you mean mate. i use to watch alot of the "clssics" on the wrestlinjg channel few years back and wow is all i can say:) it has come a long long way. when you even look at how far the indy scene has even come from pre-hogan era. its nuts. havent watched much of the japanese stuff myself. its pretty good to be honest but i have no real interest in it since its not on tv and anytime i ever seen it, it was just japanese commentary(fair enough since the japanese want to know whats happening:D) so i cant follow it and might aswell be watching it without commentary so its just too hard to keep interested. for all off the wrong moves that vince has made in wrestling i.e. pg rating, we have only vince to thank for what we and many other consider wrestling these days.

davrho

WWE recognise their golden age as from 85 to 87. Wrestlemania 3 is the pinnacle of their golden age.

I cant recall wwe(f) programming without gimmicks.

Cena is as much a gimmick as Stone Cold was. Austin just had the better gimmick.

Paulegend

davrho wrote: »

WWE recognise their golden age as from 85 to 87. Wrestlemania 3 is the pinnacle of their golden age.

I cant recall wwe(f) programming without gimmicks.

Cena is as much a gimmick as Stone Cold was. Austin just had the better gimmick.

well gimmicks are what the entertainment is all about. but gimmicks arent always "cartoon" characters.

stone cold didnt have a great gimmick until they gave him freedom with his character. just goews to show you that what hogan is saying could really work. leave the writing to the wrestlers. give them all freedom over their own characters

davrho

True to a point but look what happened to WCW. They gave the wrestlers that much control they walked over the company.

A happy medium is needed. The wrestlers and writers have to work together.

Paulegend

that would be fair enough. its just annoying that alot of wrestlers are ruined because of creative feck ups

SlickRic

jaykhunter wrote: »

OK this particular jab annoyed me. Please explain why RVD is in the same boat as 'Black' Lesnar and Khali. (Is it going to be a verbatim Triple H 'consistency' reply?) RVD's lacklustre tenure in WWE -despite his obvious talents- (do I need to give examples of his amazing in-ring work in ECW and WWE?) is down to backstage friggin' politics. Please give examples of matches where RVD has been carried!

i wasn't saying RVD gets carried.

i was giving examples of programmes where Cena did particularly well. RVD is nowhere near the stink level of a Khali or Lashley, i'm not an idiot.

but during their programme Cena for me was the more dominant. ONS '06 in particular. the crowd made it, but Cena was immense, while RVD was actually quite ordinary. even the botch in the middle, where the crowd blame Cena, it was actually RVD's fault.

but yeah, RVD doesn't need to be carried, and as i said, that wasn't the point of the post anyway.

Machismo Fan

jaykhunter wrote: »

I heard when Vince Sr was booking it was "one guy wins one week, the other wins the other week". Madness!

Isn't that more or less exactly how WWE is booked these days? Evan Bourne beats Jack Swagger one week, Jack Swagger beats Evan Bourne the next week. Orton losses the title to Cena at Breaking Point, he wins it back at HIAC only to lose it again at Bragging Rights. And I really don't think Bruno Sammartino was losing every second week.

Paulegend

dont think thats the point he was making. it was more like back then wrestler x would be alot stronger than wrestler y this week and next week it would be the other way around

jaykhunter

SlickRic wrote: »

i wasn't saying RVD gets carried.

i was giving examples of programmes where Cena did particularly well. RVD is nowhere near the stink level of a Khali or Lashley, i'm not an idiot.

but during their programme Cena for me was the more dominant. ONS '06 in particular. the crowd made it, but Cena was immense, while RVD was actually quite ordinary. even the botch in the middle, where the crowd blame Cena, it was actually RVD's fault.

but yeah, RVD doesn't need to be carried, and as i said, that wasn't the point of the post anyway.

thanks for clearing that up

Paulegend

DM-ICE wrote: »

Cena is brilliant.

good arguement

DM_7

Paulegend wrote: »

good arguement

Thanks:p

Rud3Bwoy

rossie1977 wrote: »

IT IS ENTERTAINMENT NOW, and there i was thinking i saw cyndi lauper dancing around in the middle of the ring, king kong bundy wrestling midgets and mr t playing his character off tv in 1985, doink the clown (must have been an illusion), mantaur, kwang,gobbledygooker......................??? christ the biggest match vince has ever booked had hogan and andre stinking up the arena, did either even pull off one wrestling hold in that match??

vince jrs federation has ALWAYS been a comic book/cartoon superhero show from day one

ironically vince seems to have focused more on in-ring product these days than at any time in the past, if you watch ppvs from the late 80s many of the matches are sub 5 minutes in length, today most wwe ppvs have numerous matches over 15 mins in length

and just because his matches are 15 mins long does not mean they are any good LOL

Paulegend

DM-ICE wrote: »

Thanks:p

TheCandystripes

what bothch did cena/rvd make in ONS?