Abusive relationships

LegacyUser

anyone else been in one? its a taboo subject and not very manly

was in two, more psychological not physical violence.

did you go to anyone for help or stick it out

CDfm

Lots of people have been in them.

Anyone can be in an abusive relationship and its not about you but the other person. Nowdays -its not's not seen in the least girlie to ask for help.

There is more help out there for women then men but the UK Home Office Crime Survey says that both genders abuse in equal numbers.

I have seen the girl mods in PI posting helpline details for guys - so its accepted as part and parcel of life my man.

Wibbs

I dunno. I would say there is defo more of a stigma for men. There's a reluctance in women too, but a lot of men suffer in crappy abusive relationships and dont seek help. For some reason they seem to be big strapping "manly" guys IME.

Ive been lucky. Ive not had any really abusive ones. A few emotional nutbags, but that goes for both genders and I just left them to be nutty on their own.

Sinall

A guy I know is in one, mostly psychological but has been physically abused on occasion. I think he is starting to realise that it's not right now though, but I don't know if he will do anything about it.

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno. I would say there is defo more of a stigma for men.

Ive been lucky. Ive not had any really abusive ones. A few emotional nutbags, but that goes for both genders and I just left them to be nutty on their own.

But if a guy is an ordinary decent fella who is unfortunate to hook up with a mad bint-then where is the stigma.

The dumb thing is trying to tackle it on your own.

suey71

It would be awful to be in a relationship like this and to have kids.

If the OP doesnt have kids yet, get out now.

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

But if a guy is an ordinary decent fella who is unfortunate to hook up with a mad bint-then where is the stigma.

The dumb thing is trying to tackle it on your own.

Yes I agree. That doesnt negate the notion of a stigma and affect the numbers that come forward though. There are common examples of this in other areas. Many women never seek help in abusive relationships. Many women don't report rape and even fewer cases of male rape come up. The stigma of depression, suicide. The perception and stigma and lack of services all have a part to play, but it is an issue IMHO.

I know three men who have been in what could be easily defined as abusive relationships(one physically abusive. She broke a rib and a finger on two occasions). None came forward or sought help. It can be easy to project what you may do or I may do or feel about a given situation, but many do feel a stigma.

CDfm

Well guys - walking out is a kneejerk reaction especially if there is property or kids involved.The abuser should be the one to leave.

I would say the same to a woman or man.Know your rights, get help and apply to the court for protection. Helplines and the rules for men and women are here.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/problems-in-marriages-and-relationships/barring_safety_and_protection_orders

If it was one of my friends I would put them in the car and bring them to an Amen meeting pronto.

Stigma my a***

Wibbs

What if the mate wouldn't go? This happens too. Why would a man not go? A number of reasons one of which is this percieved stigma. Simple as that. You can say stigma my arse as often as you want and I would agree there shouldnt be one, but there is. Rather than deny same, it would be better if society acknowledged it and sought ways to combat it. Otherwise it's like saying to someone with depression "cop yourself on".

Sinall

I have passed on the Amen information to my friend.

He's not really "allowed" to see friends anymore.

ItsNoAlias

Never been in an abusive relationship but then again I dont know if my partners ever felt abuse so cant say

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

What if the mate wouldn't go? This happens too. Why would a man not go?

You can lead a horse to water ,after that its up to the horse

A number of reasons one of which is this percieved stigma. Simple as that. You can say stigma my arse as often as you want.

Explain the stigma of getting a court order from a court case that is heard in camera (private and not open to the public)

CDfm

Sinall wrote: »

I have passed on the Amen information to my friend.

He's not really "allowed" to see friends anymore.

Thats sad - cant he see how abnormal that is??

Surely he has a mother or a sister who would explain this to him if he wont listen to you?

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

You can lead a horse to water ,after that its up to the horse

Maybe ask the horse why? Why so many horses don't drink when there is water aplenty?

Explain the stigma of getting a court order from a court case that is heard in camera (private and not open to the public)

Just because you cant seem to see it does not mean such a stigma does not exist. Why are so many men(and women) not coming forward? Even when presented with the options. Saying it isn't so, does not make it so. Try and look at the person in question and remove your(or my) perception and possible projection onto the situation.

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe ask the horse why? Why so many horses don't drink when there is water aplenty?

I dunno -they should.

Just because you cant seem to see it does not mean such a stigma does not exist. Why are so many men(and women) not coming forward? Even when presented with the options. Saying it isn't so, does not make it so. Try and look at the person in question and remove your(or my) perception and possible projection onto the situation.

I cant see the stigma myself -if anything its the person who has the order granted against them has ownership of any stigma -not the other way round.

Sinall

CDfm wrote: »

Thats sad - cant he see how abnormal that is??

Surely he has a mother or a sister who would explain this to him if he wont listen to you?

It's really sad. He's not "allowed" talk to his sister much. His mother has intervened alright and I think that has made him realise that there is something wrong with this situation.

CDfm

Sinall wrote: »

It's really sad. He's not "allowed" talk to his sister much. His mother has intervened alright and I think that has made him realise that there is something wrong with this situation.

You should really try to get him down to a support meeting at Amen in Navanand from what I understand mothers are allowed to bring sons and it has male and female staff.

www.amen.ie

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

I dunno -they should. I cant see the stigma myself -if anything its the person who has the order granted against them has ownership of any stigma -not the other way round.

Well of course. OK Look at rape. One of the many feelings it engenders in the victim is shame. Makes no obvious sense right? The perp is the one who should feel shame. Would you say to someone in that position "why are you ashamed?". Hardly, you would be aiming for that endpoint but would not barrel in half cocked with that as an opener. Ditto with a child being bullied. While the obvious answer is stand up for yourself it's not helpful if they dont have the capacity or the tools to do so.

I think you're confusing your attitudes and responses to how you would deal with this personally. The thing is you by those same responses dont sound like someone who would find themsleves in that position in the first place. So its all too easy to say there exists no stigma or shame for a man to admit he's being abused and pursue recourses that may be available.

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

I think you're confusing your attitudes and responses to how you would deal with this personally. The thing is you by those same responses dont sound like someone who would find themsleves in that position in the first place. So its all too easy to say there exists no stigma or shame for a man to admit he's being abused and pursue recourses that may be available.

I dont see why it is anything to be embarressed about.

OK - if you accept the premise that domestic abuse is wrong you also must accept its wrong for both genders.

Now I happen to believe its equally wrong for either gender to abuse.

So you have 4 options as I see it

-tolerate and accept it

- Move out

- Retaliate

- go to court

No way should a person accept the first 2 options - lets say he moved out and became homeless.If a person has nothing to loose they should end the relationship.

Retaliate - it wouldnt be my bag and I wouldnt want to live like that and if the parter is mad enough to assault they would have no prob getting a barring order for your reasonable force. There is more stigma to being a wife batterer.

So in my opinion weighing up the options getting a court order is not only the correct option but the smarter option.

Now I still dont get the stigma part - guy gets home to drunk partner and ends up with broken ribs etc - and he is stigmatised. Not a bit - the only thing thats happening here is a b/s excuse to protect/excuse the abuser. Once you get past the ego part you are fine.

We dont beat up our workmates when we disagree with them. So why accept this.

And thats exacly what I would do.

shellyboo

That's still a personal response, CDfm. You can't flat out deny that a stigma exists, because it does.

There are many many men who'd be ashamed to go to the Gardai or get help out of shame that they were "letting" their partner abuse them. There are plenty of Gardai who'd brush something like that off as well, I'd imagine.

I know two guys who've been physically abused by partners - neither reported it, but they're both split up from the women now. They didn't leave because of the violence though, which I find baffling. If anyone hurt me in the way they had been hurt, I'd be gone like a shot, and if I decided to stay people would think I was mental. It's not the same for guys, though it should be.

Warfi

unregMan wrote: »

anyone else been in one? its a taboo subject and not very manly

was in two, more psychological not physical violence.

did you go to anyone for help or stick it out

An abusive relationship is an awful situation to be in, and unfortunately very easy to get into to!

You got out of those toxic relationships, you've taken the first step (which would be the most difficult, I imagine). Now take the next step and talk to people who have been through the same thing as you. Dealing with something as big as this on your own would be a very alienating experience for you, you need back up and to hear other people's stories to get you through. Being there for other people and helping them can help you too. I'd never heard of Amen until this thread, but you should contact them if you feel like taking the next step.

Best of luck

CDfm

shellyboo wrote: »

That's still a personal response, CDfm. You can't flat out deny that a stigma exists, because it does.

a fairly idiotic stigma

There are many many men who'd be ashamed to go to the Gardai or get help out of shame that they were "letting" their partner abuse them. There are plenty of Gardai who'd brush something like that off as well, I'd imagine.

There might be -but I know a woman guard who says different. And I know one guy who when he told his woman boss was very supportive of him pursuing his court orders on the spot.

I know two guys who've been physically abused by partners - neither reported it, but they're both split up from the women now. They didn't leave because of the violence though, which I find baffling

Were they married or single and /or owned or rented accomadation.

. If anyone hurt me in the way they had been hurt, I'd be gone like a shot, and if I decided to stay people would think I was mental. It's not the same for guys, though it should be.

You wouldnt see me for smoke Boo.

Anyway - some of my best friends are women -so maybe I look at things without the machismo. I imagine the thought of flashing blue lights outside the door and being carted off to the station would deter most abusers.

metrovelvet

There is also shame in a woman admitting to being a victim of domestic abuse.

People, men, women or children who are caught in a cycle of abuse are afraid. They live and breathe fear.

Its completely understandable to me why they cant report it or why they stay.

g'em

CDfm you're grossly oversimplifying the issue here. Your approach to it is extremely logical, factual and clear-cut. Abuse is none of those things. This post describes it better than I ever could.

metrovelvet

There is a whole system involved, its not just about the assault. There is isolation, brainwashing, not to mention the bond which has been formed over time or that your survival depends on the abuser or at least s/he has convinced the victim of that.

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

I dont see why it is anything to be embarressed about.

And why you're missing this by a country mile. With respect, you're being way too linear and subjective. All too common and you wont want for company in this on many subjects.

And thats exacly what I would do.

The "I" is the bit that resonates with you. Your opinion is doggedly predicated on this point. One of the biggest lessons I've learned in my life and indeed the most useful, is that the "I" doesnt always equate with the "other" and what they may feel. It always surprises me and little enough surprises me, but this notion does. Just because you think you can see what's what, does not mean you are right and certainly does not mean you are right when applied to others. IMHO its one of the barriers to understanding and resolution of this. As I say you've the common touch in this and thats not a good thing.

a fairly idiotic stigma

Well Duh. Most stigmas are idiotic, except to those within the framework of that stigma who believe it.

CDfm

Sorry -but I dont intend to oversimplify it.

This is what I am saying -its very simple the abuser whether they are male or female is in the wrong.

You may need support to do it and you owe it to yourself to get that support. Let the courts deal with them.

There are laws to protect the victim, man or woman or sexual orientation is irrelevant.

By tackling the issue you take your power back. You may need outside help but if you are ill you get outside help from a doctor. If my back is sore I go to a chiropractor. If I am abused I go to a self-help group and the courts.

I am not saying its easy -but tolerance isnot an option here. Apply for your court order and let the authorities deal with them.Thats their job. Your job is to recover from the abuse and live a happy life.

As a stigma -this one is very idiotic, mad, nuts and a whole lot of other words. So ignore the stigma and get on with it. The person with the real problem is the abuser.

Stheno

Wibbs wrote: »

So its all too easy to say there exists no stigma or shame for a man to admit he's being abused and pursue recourses that may be available.

Same for a woman tbh.

When I was very young (very early twenties) I was in a very abusive relationship both physically and mentally, and literally it took three days of me being locked into a flat by the abuser for me to seek help.

I got that help in shedloads,(from friends and family) after having spent nights on the streets with the cops telling me I could choose between a chair in the station or going home, women's aid not having space available, and the cops not taking complaints I made seriously (they were reported to the Ombudsman) However I literally spent months hiding from my abuser, and my family had years of phone calls from him either when he was in trouble or trying to track me down.

If you are a person in that sort of relationship on the recieving end of abuse it has an appalling mental effect, you become someone that you yourself believe to be pretty much worthless. In my situation I'd have given anything to get out, and get over it, without involving my friends or family. I didn't want to admit the situation I'd gotten myself into, for many reasons, be it that I thought I could take care of myself, that I still believed in my then partner, that I "didn't think it would happen to me", or that no one would believe me. As well as that you don't know where to go for help, I went to the cops and womens aid as that was all I knew but they couldn't do anything so I was stuck.

There is and continues to be an appalling stigma about partner/spouse abuse in this country and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Edit, didn't read the link in your post g'em, pretty much sums it up in one

CDfm

nouggatti wrote: »

There is and continues to be an appalling stigma about partner/spouse abuse in this country and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

But that doesnt mean the stigma is valid or right.

Stheno

CDfm wrote: »

But that doesnt mean the stigma is valid or right.

Absolutely

However if you have been in the situation of being in an abusive relationship, and lived within the norms of society so to speak prior to that, and heard the whispers, and closed conversations about abuse, then when you become a victim of that abuse, the fact that there is a stigma and it is not spoken about, simply adds to the burden that you as the victim are carrying as a victim.

And in that broken down state of mind, it's pretty hard to get away from.

CDfm

So even if there is a stigma there are places you can go for help. We all should help those we know who are victims of Domestic Abuse.

I know a guard who was abused by his wife and he is a big guy and along with the embarressment and shame of saying it to his colleagues he eventually had to go to court as the victim and admit what was going on.

Another close friend had to deal with the situation where his girlfriend was harming herself and they had two kids.

Personnally, if anyone told me they were in an abusive relationship I would not think less of them and would help them anyway I could.

Abuse is about control -dealing with it is about getting your life back. Its a mindbending headwreck. Reaching out for help is about wanting to get normality back in your life which everybody is entitled too.

Where is it written that your abuser has a god given right to make you miserable - its about them and its not about you.

OP -if you are in a current situation feel free to PM me -even if you just need to talk.

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

Sorry -but I dont intend to oversimplify it.

Though this is precisely what you're doing.

This is what I am saying -its very simple the abuser whether they are male or female is in the wrong.

Of course, but also somewhat of a simplification if you want to look at this completely objectively.

There are laws to protect the victim, man or woman or sexual orientation is irrelevant.

Only if one views the world in absolutes and black and white. Gender can be relevant. While abuse has similar patterns, the responses of the abused and why they may feel trapped can be different and can run along gender lines. Trying to reach a Big Strapping Bloke tm being abused by his partner may require a completely different approach. The social stereotypes/expectations are vastly different. And no you can't dismiss that by saying it doesn't matter. It shouldn't, but it does.

By tackling the issue you take your power back. You may need outside help but if you are ill you get outside help from a doctor. If my back is sore I go to a chiropractor. If I am abused I go to a self-help group and the courts.

Again you're being too linear, subjective and a+b=c. You could say the same of people suffering from mental illness. It's said a lot actually. I've said it and I was thick to say it. "Oh if you had a broken leg you'd go to casualty, sure it's the same for a broken mind/heart". Eh no. It's not. Hence 99.999% of people with a broken leg would call a doctor, but a helluva lot more people out there with depression simply don't and too many end up as another suicide statistic.

I am not saying its easy -but tolerance isnot an option here. Apply for your court order and let the authorities deal with them.Thats their job. Your job is to recover from the abuse and live a happy life.

Yep again great in theory, but a+b=c.

As a stigma -this one is very idiotic, mad, nuts and a whole lot of other words. So ignore the stigma and get on with it. The person with the real problem is the abuser.

Ignore the stigma. That simple eh? really?

CDfm wrote: »

But that doesnt mean the stigma is valid or right.

Of course it doesn't.

CDfm wrote: »

So even if there is a stigma there are places you can go for help. We all should help those we know who are victims of Domestic Abuse.

OK different tack. Why don't many people who know there are options, not take them? Simple question. Like you're example of taking a horse to water earlier. You'll take them, you know where the water is, but you're not asking the important question; why don't they drink?

Personnally, if anyone told me they were in an abusive relationship I would not think less of them and would help them anyway I could.

Ditto, but while that's all fine and dandy, it's how they think of themselves and how they think the wider world will view them is the important thing. They may have had this kind of thing happen throughout their lives. They may have been primed for abuse. This on top of being emotionally controlled by the abuser. Ranged against that an offer of help and kindness while welcome and decent can have a hard fight on its hands.

I've seen this up close with two women and one man in my life. The things all three had in common was that they had been primed for abuse by childhood to some degree or other. They felt in a crazy (to me) way deserving of this and their abuser had plugged right into it.

Now this may raise hackles in many quarters but I would also say the "blame" was not always all one way either. Again nothing is absolute when it comes to people.

In one case, I knew both of them quite well. She had been in a stream of abusive relationships. All but one of her any way long termers had hit her. the one that didnt left her because of her behaviour. He had been in relationships, but with no history of being abusive. His exes agreed, even one who couldnt stand him(she was shocked as one reason she left him was that she thought him too passive). In this case the abused was constantly pushing the buttons of the abuser. They ramped each other up. She expected abuse in a way. It's what she was used to. She actively sought out the type that would abuse her and left many men who didnt. We as her mates saw this time and time again. Yes he responded beyond badly and thumped her. He took that step too far. He was entirely responsible for his actions in that case. No excuse. But in this case she has built up a framework in her head that enabled the abuse.

The guy I knew who was being emotionally and sometimes phsyically abused by his partner also wound her up. Yes again, she was in the wrong for responding how she did, but this stuff has more complexity than is often admitted. So even something as simple and obvious as "the abuser is always 100% in the wrong and the abused takes 0% responsibility" has grey areas.

This stuff is far more complex than "if you're abused, walk, seek help and recourse through the proper authorities". Far more and until people on all sides examine this and are more open then it will continue.

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

Though this is precisely what you're doing.

Of course, but also somewhat of a simplification if you want to look at this completely objectively.

This stuff is far more complex than "if you're abused, walk, seek help and recourse through the proper authorities". Far more and until people on all sides examine this and are more open then it will continue.

Of course,Wibbs I am simplifying it.

It has to be simplifyed because the victim is not in the wrong.

I have been in a wacko relationships and you never see it clearly because you are too close to the detail. You might like the sex or there are a loads of different reasons why your lives are tangled up.

An abuser will get away with it precisely because the victim is afraid of what people might say or the other consequences.Now thats a great excuse to do nothing and it is precisely what an abuser wants their victim to believe that they can do nothing.

Now - thats not a healthy outlook to have and its not a valid reason to do nothing.

You can do something about it and you start by changing your belief that the behavior is not acceptable.

There is a very good book called Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward that is recommended reading for psycholigically abused people and her method is to get people looking thru the FOG (fear obligation and guilt) and a review on it is here http://www.wayneandtamara.com/emotionalblackmail.htm . http://narcissisticpersonalitydisorder.aimoo.com/What-the-Authors-who-write-about-NPD-say/Emotional

Google the term and the techniques aare on line.

Mary Cleary of Amen colloborated on a book That Bitch thats more focused on identifying abusive relationships.http://www.thatbitchbook.com/

There is a relationship audit on Cearys site and loads of freebie downloads.

Either book can be read by either gender and both are written by feisty women.

Warfi

Self help books and websites are all fine, but if you're not ready to read them or take on board the message in them, it might as well be in Russian (no offence to Russians ). Personally, when I was younger I used to read self help books, and I remember thinking 'That doesn't apply to me', or 'That 's not going to work for me'. Not one of these self help books helped me change, because I wasn't ready to take on board what was being said. I had to change the way I think before change happened.
Realising you have to change the way you think/view the world doesn't happen overnight. It could take months, years.....all depends on the person. Once you realise you have to change your view, it could take months, years for the change to take place. It's not as easy as saying 'Right I'm not putting up with this', there's a huge amount of fear to overcome first.

CDfm

Warfi wrote: »

'Right I'm not putting up with this',

At some stage a person needs to acknowledge that accepting such behavior is bizarre. You can get analysis pararlysis and list loads of reasons to do nothing.

Im not saying its easy -what I am saying is go to a support group and see how others cope and what they do to get out of the situation.

So its up to the person themselves to acknowledge that they want to do something about the abuse.

Podman

I feel for the person the OP has mentioned, you can feel inexplicably "trapped" and useless. The abuser wants you this way. Add another few years and s/he'll be on the floor shaking, it's not good.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to leave and take the kids with you. Abuser will always come up with some drama/whatever as to why you should stay together, but it's a smokescreen. Resist Emotional blackmail.

1. Explain the situation,
2. outline your needs,
3. tell her/him (don't ask) what your going to do about it.
4. Do it.

If you think leaving is the right thing, then Make your decision, Make a plan and Stick to it. At all costs. Be strong and believe in yourself. If getting away is the reward, then you can do anything to make it happen.

There is family he can go to until he gets sorted with a new flat. Don't answer her calls, don't tell "mutual" friends (mostly her friends) the new address, and don't be fooled by crocodile tears.

It may take a few years before you start to feel like a human being again, talk to people, but live normally again (go out, be social, live).