Another award .......

phog

.....for Declan Kidney, I'm delighted for him. Congratulations Deccie.

From IRFU

Declan Kidney has been named the Philips Sports Manager of the Year for the second year running, having guided Ireland to their first Grand Slam in 61 years and completed an 11-match unbeaten run over the past twelve months.



Ireland's Grand Slam-winning coach Declan Kidney is pictured with his Philips Manager of the Year award and the major trophies won by Ireland sides in 2009 - the RBS 6 Nations trophy, the Triple Crown and the Churchill Cup

The award also honoured Declan Kidney for helping Ireland 'A' win the Churchill Cup for the first time last summer. It is the third Philips Sports Manager of the Year accolade for the Corkman.
He was previously singled out for his efforts in overseeing Munster's historic Heineken Cup triumphs in 2006 and 2008.

Kidney, who was recently named the IRB Coach of the Year, beat off stiff competition from Republic of Ireland soccer manager Giovanni Trapattoni, Kilkenny hurling manager Brian Cody and Sea the Stars trainer John Oxx to take the coveted Philips Sports award.

Accepting the award at a ceremony in Dublin, he said: "I would see it as a reflection of the team. We'd 50 odd players involved with the Churchill Cup, the Six Nations and the November series and in the management team there are 18 people so I'm just lucky to be sent out to collect the trophies."

Kidney is the third Ireland head coach to win the Philips Sports award after Mick Doyle in 1985 and Eddie O'Sullivan in 2004.

phog

phog wrote: »

Eddie O'Sullivan in 2004.

Ah god

Brian Cody can feel agrieved,to win 7 all Irelands and 4 in a row is an astonishing achievement imo.

(Dont even like Gaa btw)

thehighground

Allie Stocky Sunscreen wrote: »

Brian Cody can feel agrieved,to win 7 all Irelands and 4 in a row is an astonishing achievement imo.

(Dont even like Gaa btw)

5 in a row would be the magic number (hopefully that won't be the case )

Cody has already won it twice in the last couple of years. If there ever was a year he should have won it, it was last year - Kilkenny were really purring. They weren't nearly as impressive this year and in fact were lucky to win the AI.

Kidney record is well impressive. Heineken Cup last season. Grand Slam this season.

chupacabra

This award ceremony looks like it took place in my living room :pac:

thehighground

chupacabra wrote: »

This award ceremony looks like it took place in my living room :pac:

:eek: You have replica silverware of all the teams you support

Eoin

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah god

What's wrong with that?

eoin

eoin wrote: »

What's wrong with that?

Don't feel anyone deserves an award for achieving the bare minimum expected of them. That's all

chupacabra

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't feel anyone deserves an award for achieving the bare minimum expected of them. That's all

EOS did great things for Ireland. Its a shame that most "fans" seem to look down on his achievements probably based entirely on the 2007 RWC.

chupacabra

I would disagree. I would counter that Warren Gatland did great things for Ireland. And that EOS arrived just before the peak of Gatland's work shone through.

EDIT:

also

chupacabra wrote: »

"fans"

petty from someone who's posts I usually enjoy

Eoin

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't feel anyone deserves an award for achieving the bare minimum expected of them. That's all

He was there too long and certainly had his faults, but he deserves more credit than that.

2004 in Ireland - Rugby Union

* Rugby Union Six Nations Championship
* Ireland win the Triple Crown for the first time since 1985. The team also becomes the first to beat England since their World Cup win. The results in full are as follows:
o Ireland 19-3 Italy
o Ireland 37-16 Scotland
o Ireland 19-13 England
o Ireland 17-35 France
o Ireland 36-15 Wales

Thats what he achieved.

Team vs Scotland to win the triple Crown.

G Dempsey, S Horgan, G D'Arcy, B O'Driscoll, G Murphy, R O'Gara, P Stringer, R Corrigan, S Byrne, J Hayes, M O'Kelly, P O'Connell, S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley.

Replacements: F Sheahan, Horan, D O'Callaghan), V Costello, D Humphreys, G Easterby, K Maggs.

Can you see what I'm getting at yet?

(Just in case nobody does, I simply feel the award is devalued by EOS's victory in it. It's unfair to compare the victory for coach for an unbeaten season which includes victory over the World Champions to a season where we achieved what we should've for the past years. Roy Keane attitude perhaps, but I feel a lot of people are happy to be also rans, and "taking part" is victory to a lot of Irish peopl)

Eos deserves more respect than that,contrary to what you are saying,I would argue that Eos built the foundations that allowed Deccie to win these matches.

Eoin

Not many people were complaining when we won the triple crown for the first time in years. People might think it a bullshìt nothing of an award, and maybe it was when we won it for the 3rd time - but it was a big step for us. It was the start of consistently winning, and if not for that French try in Croker we could have had the Grand Slam, and if not for the French try against Scotland we could have had the Championship.

I do respect EOS!

Maybe I've made my point in completely the wrong manner.

I don't believe EOS was deserving enough of "Coach of the Year", for our team finally being able to overcome the hurdle of winning a Triple Crown.

I was delighted with EOS's selection as coach after Gatland left, and had few problems with him other than the fact that he stagnated himself, and also the team for a short period.

I just think that the trophy is devalued by his inclusion in list of past winners.

chupacabra

Deleted User wrote: »

petty from someone who's posts I usually enjoy

I'm right tho. The majority of people who bad talk Eddie O'Sullivan always seem to overlook the good things he did for Ireland and they can never seem to back up their opinions beyond more than "Yeah, he fúcked us over for the RWC, he picked all the same players, he stymied development etc." And while some of these are true, i would also like to see that we can get over things like that and commend the man for the good he did for Irish rugby too. And he was well deserving of the 2004 award because it was our first triple crown and our first piece of silverware since 1985! I wasn't trying to berate your post in any way or belittle you, i was merely making a point about the so called "fans" of irish rugby who are so quick to chastise the man for the bad days and somehow immediately forget the good. And dont forget also that but for a lack of concentration by the players we would have had Grand Slam glory in 2007. What would that have said about the mans achievements?

Chucky the tree

chupacabra wrote: »

EOS did great things for Ireland. Its a shame that most "fans" seem to look down on his achievements probably based entirely on the 2007 RWC.

Hang on, I look down on his achievements because they were ****. The RWC was just the icing on the failcake. I think you'll find it most "fans" who look up at his achievements.

Allie Stocky Sunscreen wrote: »

Eos deserves more respect than that,contrary to what you are saying,I would argue that Eos built the foundations that allowed Deccie to win these matches.

As emmet pointed out, Gatland did that. The squad in Gatlands last 6 nations matches had BOD, Hayes, Stringer, Horgan, Wallace, POC, ROG, dempsey, Easterby and MOK. The back-bone of a great team.

chupacabra wrote: »

I'm right tho. The majority of people who bad talk Eddie O'Sullivan always seem to overlook the good things he did for Ireland and they can never seem to back up their opinions beyond more than "Yeah, he fúcked us over for the RWC, he picked all the same players, he stymied development etc." And while some of these are true, i would also like to see that we can get over things like that and commend the man for the good he did for Irish rugby too. And he was well deserving of the 2004 award because it was our first triple crown and our first piece of silverware since 1985! I wasn't trying to berate your post in any way or belittle you, i was merely making a point about the so called "fans" of irish rugby who are so quick to chastise the man for the bad days and somehow immediately forget the good. And dont forget also that but for a lack of concentration by the players we would have had Grand Slam glory in 2007. What would that have said about the mans achievements?

What were the good things? The triple crown? Just because Ireland hadn't won one is so long doesn't make it a brilliant achievement in my opinion. He had the best irish team ever assembled and he only won 3 triple crowns. A shocking return when you compare Kidney has 1 GS in his first year and he did it with bandy out-half. Wales managed two GS in 3 years during EOS's "golden era". It's like Manchester city and Mark hughes, if they finish 7th it will be there highest ever premiership finish afaik but do you think city fans will see that as a brilliant result? Hardly. It was Gatland it finally got irish rugby on a half decent road helping us to our first win in France in 28 years. Ireland were awful in the 1990's until he took over. It pains me to think how we would of done if he didn't have EOS standing behind him with a knife. I love the way you blame the players for 2007. :rolleyes: So when EOS wins a triple crown it's "OMG best coach evar!!11!!" but when he fails to win a GS it's "It's all the players fault". Why don't you think the players concentration went? 3 bloody substitutions in a professional game of rugby? Compare that to france who made 6 or Kidney who made 6 against Wales. Maybe someone should have told him it wasn't soccer we were playing. God only know how a coach who doesn't realize the importance of substitutions or squad gave can be given a job in a professional sport is beyond me, it's hardly surprising he ended up with the US because I doubt anyone else would go near him.

chupacabra

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So when EOS wins a triple crown it's "OMG best coach evar!!11!!" but when he fails to win a GS it's "It's all the players fault".

Stopped reading here, putting words in my mouth is not a way to have a discussion about something.

Podge_irl

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What were the good things? The triple crown? Just because Ireland hadn't won one is so long doesn't make it a brilliant achievement in my opinion. He had the best irish team ever assembled and he only won 3 triple crowns.

He did in me bollocks. The current team is unbelievably better than the one EOS had. The backline was probably better, but the pack he had didn't remotely compare to the currently Irish one. I have zero time for people who deride EOS's accomplishments. Ireland was in a far worse state when he got the, than when he left them. His year in 2007 was as impressive as Deccie's just gone imo, and with more glaring deficiencies in the team.

EOS is a damn fine coach and I can't believe anyone would diminish his accomplishtments. It's easy to claim a triple crown is ****e, but he won three in four years after Ireland hadn't won any in 20. He was a John Hayes missed tackle away from a GS. He made Ireland the most consistent team in the 6N, EOS did well and deserved his award.

irishbucsfan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Hang on, I look down on his achievements because they were ****. The RWC was just the icing on the failcake. I think you'll find it most "fans" who look up at his achievements.



As emmet pointed out, Gatland did that. The squad in Gatlands last 6 nations matches had BOD, Hayes, Stringer, Horgan, Wallace, POC, ROG, dempsey, Easterby and MOK. The back-bone of a great team.




What were the good things? The triple crown? Just because Ireland hadn't won one is so long doesn't make it a brilliant achievement in my opinion. He had the best irish team ever assembled and he only won 3 triple crowns. A shocking return when you compare Kidney has 1 GS in his first year and he did it with bandy out-half. Wales managed two GS in 3 years during EOS's "golden era". It's like Manchester city and Mark hughes, if they finish 7th it will be there highest ever premiership finish afaik but do you think city fans will see that as a brilliant result? Hardly. It was Gatland it finally got irish rugby on a half decent road helping us to our first win in France in 28 years. Ireland were awful in the 1990's until he took over. It pains me to think how we would of done if he didn't have EOS standing behind him with a knife. I love the way you blame the players for 2007. :rolleyes: So when EOS wins a triple crown it's "OMG best coach evar!!11!!" but when he fails to win a GS it's "It's all the players fault". Why don't you think the players concentration went? 3 bloody substitutions in a professional game of rugby? Compare that to france who made 6 or Kidney who made 6 against Wales. Maybe someone should have told him it wasn't soccer we were playing. God only know how a coach who doesn't realize the importance of substitutions or squad gave can be given a job in a professional sport is beyond me, it's hardly surprising he ended up with the US because I doubt anyone else would go near him.

I dont understand how you could be so wrong so often here.

In judging Eddie O'Sullivan we have to judge him on the players he had to work with, and the mentality of Irish rugby at the time. It was hugely different, the provinces were nowhere near as dominant over European opposition, there was nothing like the infrastructure we have now. Because of that infrastructure and the new management approach professional rugby has for its young players we now have players like Ferris, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Healy, Heaslip, Sexton etc. All of whom would have made those teams. You even said he had "the best Irish team ever assembled." Thats a ridiculous thing to say, the current Irish team would beat that team by 30 points. The only player on that team that would make the current team is Hickie. O'Sullivan took a team who were not expected to win anything, and he became the most successful coach in Irish history (at the time). Thats a huge accomplishment. After that the team stagnated, but in 2004 he certainly was an excellent coach, who had completely changed the way Ireland were viewed in world rugby and deserved to be coach of the year.

anonymous_joe

Deleted User wrote: »

2004 in Ireland - Rugby Union

* Rugby Union Six Nations Championship
* Ireland win the Triple Crown for the first time since 1985. The team also becomes the first to beat England since their World Cup win. The results in full are as follows:
o Ireland 19-3 Italy
o Ireland 37-16 Scotland
o Ireland 19-13 England
o Ireland 17-35 France
o Ireland 36-15 Wales

Thats what he achieved.

Team vs Scotland to win the triple Crown.

G Dempsey, S Horgan, G D'Arcy, B O'Driscoll, G Murphy, R O'Gara, P Stringer, R Corrigan, S Byrne, J Hayes, M O'Kelly, P O'Connell, S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley.

Replacements: F Sheahan, Horan, D O'Callaghan), V Costello, D Humphreys, G Easterby, K Maggs.

Can you see what I'm getting at yet?

(Just in case nobody does, I simply feel the award is devalued by EOS's victory in it. It's unfair to compare the victory for coach for an unbeaten season which includes victory over the World Champions to a season where we achieved what we should've for the past years. Roy Keane attitude perhaps, but I feel a lot of people are happy to be also rans, and "taking part" is victory to a lot of Irish peopl)

That was an astonsihing achievement at the time. We'd done nothing in years, and we managed to beat the bloody world champions! That England team is probably the bestmost complete team the pro game's ever seen. (I felt that most complete better reflects their nature, best is possible too strong a word, but fcuk, what an achievement.)

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Hang on, I look down on his achievements because they were ****. The RWC was just the icing on the failcake. I think you'll find it most "fans" who look up at his achievements.

Ireland under Eddie O'Sullivan were the second best team in the 6 Nations over about five years. Given where we came from, that wasn't easy. We secured memorable wins over the Aussies, the Saffers and consistently buggered the English. Only New Zealand and France remained beyond us.

The 2007 6 Nations side probably played better rugby than this year's lot but for that awful Clerc try. O'Sullivan was crucial to that.

As emmet pointed out, Gatland did that. The squad in Gatlands last 6 nations matches had BOD, Hayes, Stringer, Horgan, Wallace, POC, ROG, dempsey, Easterby and MOK. The back-bone of a great team.

And Gatland did f all with them. I know he was stabbed in the back before he got the chance, but Warren Gatland pre and post Wasps was a different coach.

What were the good things? The triple crown? Just because Ireland hadn't won one is so long doesn't make it a brilliant achievement in my opinion. He had the best irish team ever assembled and he only won 3 triple crowns. A shocking return when you compare Kidney has 1 GS in his first year and he did it with bandy out-half. Wales managed two GS in 3 years during EOS's "golden era".

Wales were pisspoor between GS. Ireland were consistently the second best team in the 6 Nations behind France and well ahead of England and Wales.

The 07 team came closer to a GS than any Irish team since 48 and played some staggeringly good rugby. Up until the disaster of the WC, we were third in the world and considered an outside bet for it. That was O'Sullivan's doing. So too was the collapse.

toomevara

Ho-ho,the ghost of rugby christmas' past haunts the forum...good old EOS. Really good article which he wrote recently about the Eagles qualification process for the WC;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/eddie-osullivan-eagles-fully-committed-to--bridging-the-global-divide-1950212.html

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

Ho-ho,the ghost of rugby christmas' past haunts the forum...good old EOS. Really good article which he wrote recently about the Eagles qualification process for the WC;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/eddie-osullivan-eagles-fully-committed-to--bridging-the-global-divide-1950212.html

Interesting to see a few things still rankle with him.

Trojan

I have had a lot more respect for EOS since he resigned.

Actually, joking aside, he has done some brilliant interviews and has answered his critics very well - which unfortunately he didn't bother to do when he was in charge here.

There's criticism of EOS that is unfair, from people who are not true fans. However, let's not look at the past with rose-tinted glasses - there was plenty of fair criticism of him from real fans, here on this forum, going back years - to at least 2005. For example, a quick search finds me this thread from 2005 where I and many of our regulars discussed EOS forcing out Mike Forde.

I still respect EOS and I'd buy him a pint, he did some good work. Of course my agenda would be to quiz him on exactly why he made the decisions he did in RWC2007

anonymous_joe

Trojan wrote: »

I have had a lot more respect for EOS since he resigned.

Actually, joking aside, he has done some brilliant interviews and has answered his critics very well - which unfortunately he didn't bother to do when he was in charge here.

There's criticism of EOS that is unfair, from people who are not true fans. However, let's not look at the past with rose-tinted glasses - there was plenty of fair criticism of him from real fans, here on this forum, going back years - to at least 2005. For example, a quick search finds me this thread from 2005 where I and many of our regulars discussed EOS forcing out Mike Forde.

I still respect EOS and I'd buy him a pint, he did some good work. Of course my agenda would be to quiz him on exactly why he made the decisions he did in RWC2007

Are we watching the collapse of Irish rugby? It's been crumbling for 2 seasons now.

Looks like you were two years early.

Good reminder of what a clusterfcuk the game had turned into back then though.

Munster aside, EOS was turning paranoid, Leinster and Ulster were gone to the dogs and Connacht were nowhere.

It's been a good four years for us when you consider the direction we could have gone in.

Chucky the tree

Podge_irl wrote: »

He did in me bollocks. The current team is unbelievably better than the one EOS had. The backline was probably better, but the pack he had didn't remotely compare to the currently Irish one. I have zero time for people who deride EOS's accomplishments. Ireland was in a far worse state when he got the, than when he left them. His year in 2007 was as impressive as Deccie's just gone imo, and with more glaring deficiencies in the team.

EOS is a damn fine coach and I can't believe anyone would diminish his accomplishtments. It's easy to claim a triple crown is ****e, but he won three in four years after Ireland hadn't won any in 20. He was a John Hayes missed tackle away from a GS. He made Ireland the most consistent team in the 6N, EOS did well and deserved his award.

Didn't compare to the current Irish one? POC, DOC, Hayes Horan, Flannery and Wallace have all gotten worse since 206-2007 imo. Ferris and Heaslip are the positive additions. Stringers was better then TOL and ROG 06-start of 07 was far better then he was in 2009. D'arcy was in better for in 2006 as well.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I dont understand how you could be so wrong so often here.

In judging Eddie O'Sullivan we have to judge him on the players he had to work with, and the mentality of Irish rugby at the time. It was hugely different, the provinces were nowhere near as dominant over European opposition, there was nothing like the infrastructure we have now. Because of that infrastructure and the new management approach professional rugby has for its young players we now have players like Ferris, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Healy, Heaslip, Sexton etc. All of whom would have made those teams. You even said he had "the best Irish team ever assembled." Thats a ridiculous thing to say, the current Irish team would beat that team by 30 points. The only player on that team that would make the current team is Hickie. O'Sullivan took a team who were not expected to win anything, and he became the most successful coach in Irish history (at the time). Thats a huge accomplishment. After that the team stagnated, but in 2004 he certainly was an excellent coach, who had completely changed the way Ireland were viewed in world rugby and deserved to be coach of the year.

I have it wrong so often? :pac: Ulster won the HEC in 1999, Munster reached the final in 2000, lost in the semis by a point in 2001 and then reached another final in 2002. EOS took over the Irish job at the end of 2001. I can't believe your trying to credit EOS with installing the infrastructure and management approach that has such good young players now, lmao. It was the foreign players in Munster who should be hugely credited with that, certainly not EOS who probably had little to no say in how the provinces were coached.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ireland under Eddie O'Sullivan were the second best team in the 6 Nations over about five years. Given where we came from, that wasn't easy. We secured memorable wins over the Aussies, the Saffers and consistently buggered the English. Only New Zealand and France remained beyond us.

Second best team says it all.

The 2007 6 Nations side probably played better rugby than this year's lot but for that awful Clerc try. O'Sullivan was crucial to that.

And Gatland did f all with them. I know he was stabbed in the back before he got the chance, but Warren Gatland pre and post Wasps was a different coach.

Whats the point in playing prettier rugby if you can't win? Gatland did **** all with them because they he didn't get much chance. They were still very young under him. That win in Paris for Ireland was huge.

Wales were pisspoor between GS. Ireland were consistently the second best team in the 6 Nations behind France and well ahead of England and Wales.

Give me piss poor and two GS then 3 triple crowns and always 2nd best.

The 07 team came closer to a GS than any Irish team since 48 and played some staggeringly good rugby. Up until the disaster of the WC, we were third in the world and considered an outside bet for it. That was O'Sullivan's doing. So too was the collapse.

Again the group of players he had to work with was the best Ireland had ever produced. Our european success in the years before he took over shows that.

anonymous_joe

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Second best team says it all.

Ah that's unfair, man.

We had to compete with an almighty England team and then a cracking French side. Not to mention two magnificent Welsh sides.

Whats the point in playing prettier rugby if you can't win? Gatland did **** all with them because they he didn't get much chance. They were still very young under him. That win in Paris for Ireland was huge.

I liked Gatland, but he wasn't as effective then as he is now. Eddie O'Sullivan was a better technical coach than Gatland was at that time. I think Gatland caught up, and learned fast. I also think Eddie O'Sullivan's refusal to delegate saw Gatland amongst others overtake him.

Gatland had Shaun Edwards, Woodward had Robinson, Jake White even had Eddie Jones, Graham Henry, Uncle Deccie, etc. They've all got big big big backroom set ups. That was O'Sullivan's major flaw. But as a coach he saw us come on massively. But for Stephen Jones missing a kick, there'd be no difference between 07 and 09.

Give me piss poor and two GS then 3 triple crowns and always 2nd best.

I'd rather what we did with a bit more luck tbh.

Again the group of players he had to work with was the best Ireland had ever produced. Our european success in the years before he took over shows that.

What do you mean exactly? Do you mean under Gatland? Or Ulster and Munster's successes?

Chucky the tree

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ah that's unfair, man.

We had to compete with an almighty England team and then a cracking French side. Not to mention two magnificent Welsh sides.

I liked Gatland, but he wasn't as effective then as he is now. Eddie O'Sullivan was a better technical coach than Gatland was at that time. I think Gatland caught up, and learned fast. I also think Eddie O'Sullivan's refusal to delegate saw Gatland amongst others overtake him.

Gatland had Shaun Edwards, Woodward had Robinson, Jake White even had Eddie Jones, Graham Henry, Uncle Deccie, etc. They've all got big big big backroom set ups. That was O'Sullivan's major flaw. But as a coach he saw us come on massively. But for Stephen Jones missing a kick, there'd be no difference between 07 and 09.

I'd rather what we did with a bit more luck tbh.

What do you mean exactly? Do you mean under Gatland? Or Ulster and Munster's successes?

EOS wasn't better, he jsut had the benefit of being coach when Irelands best players came to peak. In his first 6 nations in 2002 he lost 45-11 to England and 44-5 to France. In Gatlands last year in 01 we did the double over France and England for the first time in how long? Only lost to Scotland that year as well. In 03 we got minced by England in the GS decider. After 2004 the English team went tits up as we all know. I mean when you have to start Charlie Hodgson at outhalf you know your up **** creek. You make your own luck in professional sports. How many other international teams had there two props play the full 80 minutes do you think? Not a lot I'd say.

I mean Irish provinces had big success in Europe before EOS got the Ireland job. Irishbucs fan seemed to be implying that it was EOS coaching in the Irish team that helped Irish teams in the HEC cup.

phog

Allie Stocky Sunscreen wrote: »

Brian Cody can feel agrieved,to win 7 all Irelands and 4 in a row is an astonishing achievement imo.

(Dont even like Gaa btw)

Great achievement but what opposition was there to Kilkenny, their sub bench would make the starting team in most other counties. That isn't just down to Cody but down the system the county board have in place at underage level and the lack of other sports being played in the county.

To put Kidney's award in context, Ireland are the only 6Ns or Tri-Nations team that went unbeaten in 2009. This in his first season taken over a team that was soleless in the WC. Whatever your views on Kidney he was without doubt the correct receipient.