Dropping out

notsofast

We have a high participation level in athletics in Ireland up to around the age of 14/15, when kids start dropping out. This is because
a) with increased independance and more demands on time in the form of study / exams, decisions have to be made on spare time
and athletics is often the victim.
b) when given the choice of participating in athletics or a team sport such as gaa/soccer, the team sport comes out on top. "Letting the team down" doesn't
seem to apply to athletics
(I don't think whether they particated in a National event a few years earlier has any bearing on these decisions by the way).
Anybody managed to reverse this trend in their club? Very interested to find out how !!

jinka

notsofast wrote: »

We have a high participation level in athletics in Ireland up to around the age of 14/15, when kids start dropping out. This is because
a) with increased independance and more demands on time in the form of study / exams, decisions have to be made on spare time
and athletics is often the victim.
b) when given the choice of participating in athletics or a team sport such as gaa/soccer, the team sport comes out on top. "Letting the team down" doesn't
seem to apply to athletics
(I don't think whether they particated in a National event a few years earlier has any bearing on these decisions by the way).
Anybody managed to reverse this trend in their club? Very interested to find out how !!

Having to train 6 days a week including gut wrenching sessions and races,not to mention the sacrifices made make running/athletics an easy sport to give up, aswell as the huge peer pressure these teenagers suffer to binge drink etc.

meathcountysec

Athletics is very much a minority sport. having said that, all sports experience a dropout rate. This is normal when dealing with teenagers. The attached has a very interesting study of dropout rates and reasons.

shels4ever

notsofast wrote: »

We have a high participation level in athletics in Ireland up to around the age of 14/15, when kids start dropping out. This is because
a) with increased independance and more demands on time in the form of study / exams, decisions have to be made on spare time
and athletics is often the victim.
b) when given the choice of participating in athletics or a team sport such as gaa/soccer, the team sport comes out on top. "Letting the team down" doesn't
seem to apply to athletics
(I don't think whether they particated in a National event a few years earlier has any bearing on these decisions by the way).
Anybody managed to reverse this trend in their club? Very interested to find out how !!

Well for what its worth I think a part of the problem is that come the age of 18-19-20 the clubs mostly have fairly good club runners or your people who will really progress, makes it harder for other runner and they exit the sport. There should be something put in place between clubs that people can train with other around the same level . It would keep people in the sport.. its funny lots of the same people do come back into the sport in later years.

real_upstart

An analysis of athletics club membership shows that the sharpest drop out rates occur at ages 12/13 and 17/18 (although the fall off is continuous throughout the teenage years). This is clearly consistent with the transitional periods in teenagers lives i.e. from primary to secondary and then from secondary to third level. A strategic initiative that leads to these two groups being carefully "minded" by clubs should yield some positive results. These general patterns are no doubt replicated in other sports - data on the extent would be interesting. However, taking athletics in isolation, a mentoring scheme for children/teenagers at the critical points would definitely be beneficial. This could take the form of milestone recognition which aligns with these age groups as well as a softer "keeping in touch" with the athletes by their club personnel as they go through big changes in their lives. Just a couple of thoughts!

downthemiddle

The over emphasis on winning and competition means many of our young athletes experience failure long before they have the opportunity to reach their potential.
It is important to remember in any sport that children should enjoy themselves. They should have a good social life from their sport where the priority is given to developing friendships, feeling valued and having their efforts appreciated.Athletics is a lonely sport if the social side isn't developed.
If juvenile athletes are training 6/7 days a week, sometimes twice a day doing up to 70 miles a week they become overpowered by the commitment required. All other aspects of their life suffers. They see their friends enjoying life while they are making constant sacrifices.
A healthy balance is required along with a coach who can see the wider picture. Very few of our top athletes were exceptional juveniles. The emphasis should be on creating a well rounded individual who, because they enjoy the sport, will continue to participate as seniors.

Kiptanui

Balance is required, without a doubt. However, I really dont think there are many juveniles training twice a day 7 days per week and doing 70 miles per week!! Thats a tad far fetched!

I don't agree with the comment that most of our best athletes weren't that great as juveniles!! John Treacy is still Irish Youth 3000m record holder and Irish Junior 5000m rcord holder.

Sonia O'Sullivan was national Senior Cross Country senior champion at 17. And they don't come better than Sonia. Gilliam O'Sullivan won The 13 walk in Mosney and set records all the way up. Ray Flynn is still Irish Junior 1500m record holder. Mark Carroll was a class act as a juvenile/junior. Need I go on? Martin Fagan ran 8 mins 12 for 3k at the age of 17!!

There are lots of examples of great young athletes who amounted to nothing. There have also been late developers e.g. hesh, but correct analysis of the situation is required before sweeping statements are made.

downthemiddle

Kiptanui wrote: »

Balance is required, without a doubt. However, I really dont think there are many juveniles training twice a day 7 days per week and doing 70 miles per week!! Thats a tad far fetched!

I don't agree with the comment that most of our best athletes weren't that great as juveniles!! John Treacy is still Irish Youth 3000m record holder and Irish Junior 5000m rcord holder.

Sonia O'Sullivan was national Senior Cross Country senior champion at 17. And they don't come better than Sonia. Gilliam O'Sullivan won The 13 walk in Mosney and set records all the way up. Ray Flynn is still Irish Junior 1500m record holder. Mark Carroll was a class act as a juvenile/junior. Need I go on? Martin Fagan ran 8 mins 12 for 3k at the age of 17!!

There are lots of examples of great young athletes who amounted to nothing. There have also been late developers e.g. hesh, but correct analysis of the situation is required before sweeping statements are made.

Swinging the hurl again Kip?

It should be far fetched to say that young athletes are on that type of training regime....unfortunately some are.
One young girl I know of excels in two disciplines. She trains for one in the morning and the other in the evening with up to ten training sessions per week. Another trained for more than three months last year without a rest day, training twice a day when she had no school. Obviously not every young athlete trains like this but there are "coaches" out there who believe this is the way to treat promising athletes.
I can't argue with the facts that you produced about your hall of fame list. I would say however the transition period from juvenile to senior ( i.e. junior) is the time when most of our athletes start to display their potential. Sonia won her first Cork title at 15 (Anita Philpott being her nemisis). Two years later she was national champion. Look at our teams for Sunday. Fionnuala as 17 before she won a national title, Mary Cullen likewise.
It is my opinion ( and only my opinion ) that athletes who are winning titles before they enter the junior ranks find it more difficult to maintain that progress as other athletes catch up. Not being used to failure in the sport they are, as a result, more likely to drop out.

notsofast

I don't think experiencing failure is the reason that kids drop out, expecially for those that do well enough to get to National level. Peer pressure etc has more to do with it. It's interesting though that those that win National championships (and this goes for T&F and XC) in the younger age groups are rarely the ones that win later on. (with notable exceptions of course).

One of the main reasons put forward for Kenyan distance supremancy is the amount of running they do in their formative years, Craig Mottram attributes his success to all the running he did at an early age, Jim Kilty has written about the importance of developing athletic abililty from 8-12 years etc etc, etc.

Tis a minefield to be sure.

Kiptanui

downthemiddle wrote: »

Swinging the hurl again Kip?

It should be far fetched to say that young athletes are on that type of training regime....unfortunately some are.
One young girl I know of excels in two disciplines. She trains for one in the morning and the other in the evening with up to ten training sessions per week. Another trained for more than three months last year without a rest day, training twice a day when she had no school. Obviously not every young athlete trains like this but there are "coaches" out there who believe this is the way to treat promising athletes.
I can't argue with the facts that you produced about your hall of fame list. I would say however the transition period from juvenile to senior ( i.e. junior) is the time when most of our athletes start to display their potential. Sonia won her first Cork title at 15 (Anita Philpott being her nemisis). Two years later she was national champion. Look at our teams for Sunday. Fionnuala as 17 before she won a national title, Mary Cullen likewise.
It is my opinion ( and only my opinion ) that athletes who are winning titles before they enter the junior ranks find it more difficult to maintain that progress as other athletes catch up. Not being used to failure in the sport they are, as a result, more likely to drop out.

On this topic you can produce examples to back up any opinion. Thats why I said balance was required!! Hardly swinging the hurley??!!

These "coaches" that put athletes through schedules like you described have obviously taken leave of their senses if all that can be believed. I certainly know of no coach who would put you athletes through the regime described but they may well be out there. Thankfully they are a tiny minority but any instance of what you described is rediculous. Is there nobody connected to this young athlete that can be spoken to?

With regard to Anita Philpott, she went on to be an olympian too!! She was a class athlete and struggled with persistent injuries that prevented her from maximising her potential.

Just a small correction; I believe Mary Cullen won an Intermediate Cross Country Schools All Ireland -she achieved that when 16 at most!!;)

As with every sport, athletes develop at different rates and sudden bursts of improvement are common. Generalisations are best avoided. Prudent coaching of the talanted athletes is what is required.

ecoli

An interesting topic to say the least

In my opinion i do believe that the social aspect is one of the greatest things to tackle but who is to say there arent solutions. Few ideas which could enable that young athetes are well rounded will staying with the sport could be.

Perhaps a study program within the club.
This way academic duties would not become to overwhelming for athletes who would recieve help with their studies while being surrounded by an athletic enviroment i.e athletes and coaches. This would creat an incentive for parents to create a bit of a defence for the sport over other team sports. The fact that they are surrounded by their fellow athletes means that this can create friendships within a club. If a childs friends are all doing running it will encourage them to stick at it. i know from personal experience two of my best friends being in the club and a group have helped me sustain motivation for 12 years now (through both the 12/13 and 17/18 dropout points). The idea behind these kind of things would be to indicate that running does not have to be isolated from life but that the club like the sport of running can be a place which can sustain a well rounded enviroment.
Think of American college team comradry in athletics. There highest dropout point is after college in which they no longer have that support of an insitution which combines all aspects of their lives. To me we can learn from this and use the college system to some extent as a template on which we can build.
However the fact is this is more a idealist idea and the fact we struggle to make the numbers fo voluteer coaching let alone extra responsibilities would be the biggest obstacle for an idea like this

downthemiddle

I think there are two issues here. The first being the reason for drop out and the second being how to maximise the potential of the athletes who remain in the sport.

All sports, not just athletics, have issues with drop out.There are many former county minor stars propping up bars by their early twenties. How many promising soccer players head for England and are never heard of again?
It is a wider issue for society that 14/15 yr olds would prefer ditch drinking to pursuing healthier activities.We have one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy and drinking in the E.U.
Participation rates are dropping in most sports. The more talented children tend to excel in a number of sports and have greater demands put on their time. Eventually they have to make a decision and, in general, they will tend to choose the one where their friends also compete.

If they do choose athletics we need to maximise their potential. The development of British athletics since London was awarded the Olympics has been interesting to watch. They now treat it as a business and their systems are something we could learn from. It has been noticeable that there has been an improvement in under age athletics in Northern Ireland in the last few years. Is this a coincidence or is it because they have better systems in place? Half of the junior athletes we have competing this weekend are from Ulster clubs. Is this a coincidence or is it because of better coaching and better identification of talent?
In gaelic football the northern counties have very close links with the university in Jordanstown. They take a very scientific approach to their training. Eight of the last twelve All Ireland minor champions have been northern counties. Can athletics learn from this approach?

There is no ready made solution to drop out. It might be an interesting study for someone in college to survey those who have dropped out from sport and ascertain their reasons for doing so.