35cm solid dish vs 45cm mesh

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I've heard that mesh dishes have a bit less gain than solid ones, so I'm wondering, how do you guys think a solid 35cm dish would perform against a regular 45cm Zone 1 mesh dish? It's just that I've seen some nice looking portable dish setups on ebay and I'm wondering if it's worth it.

fat-tony

A 35cm dish is too small, assuming you're going to use it in Ireland. For Astra you will need a SKY Zone 2 dish which is 60cm. The difference in gain between a mesh dish and a solid one is negligible. The reason the regular SKY dishes are perforated is to save material and thus cost.

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According to the Astra website, Zone one extends over most of Ireland:



Is this information inaccurate? Is there still a big difference within the inner blue circle?

With this in mind, is the 35cm dish still too small? I mean, surely it has some use!

steveon

Zone 1 dishes will work in Ireland but are likely to be effected by rain, for not much more you can buy a zone2 dish which is a better buy in my opinion.

fat-tony

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

With this in mind, is the 35cm dish still too small? I mean, surely it has some use!

A 35cm dish (e.g. the one in the Lidl portable satellite kit) will work in perfect reception conditions in the south-east, but as soon as it rains (and we seem to have had a lot of that!) the reception disappears. The further north and west you go in Ireland, the more the signal drops off and the more marginal your rain coverage becomes. That's why Zone 2 dishes are the ones you see most commonly in this country.

If you are going to use a dish when camping (particularly in continental Europe), then by all means go for the smaller one. If you are going for a permanent installation, particularly in the north or west or Ireland, then you will be disappointed with reception conditions in rain if you go for anything smaller than a SKY zone 2 dish.

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Ok, cheers guys!

Sam Russell

This is the map for Astra 2D which is centred on the UK and Ireland.

Even a 60 cm dish is subject to loss of signal due to rain and snow.

rurs

I've been using one of these 35cm metal dishes for the past 5 or 6 months. Only very occasionally does rain affect the signal. Typical percentages for signal quality are 72/73% for BBC1, down to around 50% for others, if memory serves. Those readings are from the receiver (Silvercrest 65/12).
A bigger problem with trying to use it in a permanent setup is wind. The elevation tends to get knocked about in any strong wind, above 60km/h or so. The wing nuts supplied just don't go tight enough. You'll be in and out all night if it's windy! If you can't install it in an easily accessible spot, forget it. Mine is, but I'll be replacing it soon.
I'm in Bray, btw.
Good luck

fat-tony

Location is everything. As you go west and north you need a better rain margin. Signal level is also dependent on the transponder beam. Astra 2D (BBCs / ITVs etc.) is focused over the UK / Ireland, other beams drop off in signal strength as you leave the south /east coast.

Mayo Exile

Yes. Folks house is in Mayo (right on the coast). Watty, when he posted on here used to recommend a dish up to 80 cm in size for any channels off Eurobird 1 in rain conditions for this location. He was right. Originally had a 55cm solid dish. Rain wiped out Eurobird channels. Had to go up to a 75 cm dish for good reception.

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Just an update - I tried out the 35cm dish and could get 65% signal on Astra 28.2E with very little fine tuning (I get 100% with my 60cm dish). I'm in South Dublin on the coastline.

I tried to get Astra 19.2E, but despite my satfinder 'locking on' to it, the signal strength on the digibox still read 0%. Can't understand what the problem is.

Cupart

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I tried to get Astra 19.2E, but despite my satfinder 'locking on' to it, the signal strength on the digibox still read 0%. Can't understand what the problem is.

Are you sure you have the correct SR and FEC figures as these will give you a zero signal/quality reading unless they are correct for each of the transponders you're scanning on 19.2E?

SKY uses different SR and FEC figures to keep their equipment "locked" to 28.2E if you know what I mean :mad:

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Cupart wrote: »

Are you sure you have the correct SR and FEC figures as these will give you a zero signal/quality reading unless they are correct for each of the transponders you're scanning on 19.2E?

SKY uses different SR and FEC figures to keep their equipment "locked" to 28.2E if you know what I mean :mad:

Well I'm not using any Sky equipment. The equipment I have doesn't seem to allow me to change any settings prior to finding a satellite. The signal jumps up when pointed at 28.2..surely it would do the same for every satellite in range..no?

fat-tony

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Well I'm not using any Sky equipment. The equipment I have doesn't seem to allow me to change any settings prior to finding a satellite. The signal jumps up when pointed at 28.2..surely it would do the same for every satellite in range..no?

The use of the term "digibox" may have confused. It's normally associated with SKY or SKY+ boxes.
I'm assuming you are using a meter connected between the satellite receiver and the LNB - one with a needle which moves across a scale and has a beeper? I personally find that these are ok only for initial finding of the satellite, then use the signal strength and quality meter on the receiver for fine tuning.
You should be able to select any particular satellite transponder list on your receiver in the first instance. Say it's for Astra 1 on 19.2. Pick one of the transponders and move the dish to the approximate location, then get an assistant to check the SS and SQ levels on the receiver while you move the dish slightly. Once you've scanned in the transponder and checked that you're on the right satellite, then you can fine-tune the dish and the LNB skew. Be aware that a lot of transponder settings are duplicated on Astra 1 and Astra 2 (and on other satellites), so you can easily mix up which satellite you're point at, until you check the channels received.

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fat-tony wrote: »

The use of the term "digibox" may have confused. It's normally associated with SKY or SKY+ boxes.
I'm assuming you are using a meter connected between the satellite receiver and the LNB - one with a needle which moves across a scale and has a beeper? I personally find that these are ok only for initial finding of the satellite, then use the signal strength and quality meter on the receiver for fine tuning.
You should be able to select any particular satellite transponder list on your receiver in the first instance. Say it's for Astra 1 on 19.2. Pick one of the transponders and move the dish to the approximate location, then get an assistant to check the SS and SQ levels on the receiver while you move the dish slightly. Once you've scanned in the transponder and checked that you're on the right satellite, then you can fine-tune the dish and the LNB skew. Be aware that a lot of transponder settings are duplicated on Astra 1 and Astra 2 (and on other satellites), so you can easily mix up which satellite you're point at, until you check the channels received.

Yeah I have a sat finder, which is working perfectly. I can find 28.2 within seconds and tune in the channels. I can also find other sats like 23.5 and 19.1 with it, only my box does not acknowledge it in any way.

I'm afraid the reciever I have isn't good enough to do any of what you suggested. It literally has one course of action, starting with a screen with a signal strength metre (which is actually the quality metre for this box). I have borrowed another box from a friend, so I'll try that tonight and let you all know how I get on.

fat-tony

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Yeah I have a sat finder, which is working perfectly. I can find 28.2 within seconds and tune in the channels. I can also find other sats like 23.5 and 19.1 with it, only my box does not acknowledge it in any way.

I'm afraid the reciever I have isn't good enough to do any of what you suggested. It literally has one course of action, starting with a screen with a signal strength metre (which is actually the quality metre for this box). I have borrowed another box from a friend, so I'll try that tonight and let you all know how I get on.

How do you know that the sat finder is finding 23.5 and 19.2? Is there some specific transponder indicator on it?

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fat-tony wrote: »

How do you know that the sat finder is finding 23.5 and 19.2? Is there some specific transponder indicator on it?

Just based on the azimuth and elevation, besides, the box should display some kind of signal strength no matter which satellite the dish is on.

Anyway, I tried another receiver - perfect! I think the one I was using is a piece of garbage. I think it's set up to only work with 28.2E...that has to be it. I found 19.2E and tuned in the channels with the other receiver, and when I swapped them over, still nothing from the first one, despite the dish being perfectly aligned. It's slow to react to remote control commands too which always got on my nerves. Don't think I'll buy any Goodmans products again.

Cupart

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Just based on the azimuth and elevation, besides, the box should display some kind of signal strength no matter which satellite the dish is on.

Anyway, I tried another receiver - perfect! I think the one I was using is a piece of garbage. I think it's set up to only work with 28.2E...that has to be it. I found 19.2E and tuned in the channels with the other receiver, and when I swapped them over, still nothing from the first one, despite the dish being perfectly aligned. It's slow to react to remote control commands too which always got on my nerves. Don't think I'll buy any Goodmans products again.

You could always check on Lyngsat and see if there are any channels broadcasting with the same SR and FEC as sky does and tune into that frequency. If the SR and FEC are not entered correctly on your receiver (with the corresponding transponder you're trying to get) you won't get a signal or quality reading, but in your case it seems like these settings are fixed and can't be changed (which sounds a bit odd)...

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The default screen of the receiver says 'Sat 4 Free' - was the firmware altered before it was put on the shelf? If so, would it be possible to reset it?

fat-tony

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The default screen of the receiver says 'Sat 4 Free' - was the firmware altered before it was put on the shelf? If so, would it be possible to reset it?

Ah, now the penny drops! That's probably one of the so-called Freesat receivers which was brought into Ireland and sold through various outlets. If so, then it's pre-loaded with a specific transponder frequency (on the Eurobird 1 satellite) for initial installation. Unless there was a matching transponder frequency, polarisation and symbol rate on the other satellites you were trying, then the signal/quality bars would not respond.

Those Sat4Free receivers were "locked" to NI postcodes to have UTV and BBC NI as the home channels. They are not really designed for use with other satellites, but can be used with some manual intervention.

A general FTA receiver will have pre-loaded lists of satellite positions and transponders. You would normally use the menu to load the satellite transponder list you are interested in, then move the dish until the receiver signal bars react. If the satellite you're pointed at doesn't have the relevant transponder frequency, then the receiver won't react.

It's next to impossible to know from the markings on the dish mount what satellite you're pointing at - they are just not that accurate. Once you get to 16E, 13E, 10E, 9E you will see what I mean;) The true test is to use the receiver to scan in the transponders and see what channels are found.

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fat-tony wrote: »

Ah, now the penny drops! That's probably one of the so-called Freesat receivers which was brought into Ireland and sold through various outlets. If so, then it's pre-loaded with a specific transponder frequency (on the Eurobird 1 satellite) for initial installation. Unless there was a matching transponder frequency, polarisation and symbol rate on the other satellites you were trying, then the signal/quality bars would not respond.

Those Sat4Free receivers were "locked" to NI postcodes to have UTV and BBC NI as the home channels. They are not really designed for use with other satellites, but can be used with some manual intervention.

A general FTA receiver will have pre-loaded lists of satellite positions and transponders. You would normally use the menu to load the satellite transponder list you are interested in, then move the dish until the receiver signal bars react. If the satellite you're pointed at doesn't have the relevant transponder frequency, then the receiver won't react.

It's next to impossible to know from the markings on the dish mount what satellite you're pointing at - they are just not that accurate. Once you get to 16E, 13E, 10E, 9E you will see what I mean;) The true test is to use the receiver to scan in the transponders and see what channels are found.

Ah that certainly explains a lot. I got it in Power City a few months ago - do you reckon they'd give me a refund or exchange it for one that isn't 'locked'? If I'd known about this, I wouldn't have bought it.

Yeah since trying the other receiver I borrowed, I've found the whole sat list and managed to tune in various ones - I used that to confirm which sat I was pointing at and swapped the cable into the 'crap' receiver. But like I said, it wasn't having any of it.

fat-tony

I wouldn't think that you would have much of a case, as it's perfectly adequate for 28.2 and provides a 7-day EPG - right?

If you wanted a general-purpose receiver for multiple satellites, then an FTA receiver would be more appropriate. I have a Humax Freesat HD PVR, which is excellent at receiving the Freesat group of channels from Astra/Eurobird, good EPG and series-linked recording etc. It will also receive other free-to-air channels from Astra or (at a pinch) from other satellites, but it doesn't even provide timed recording from them. As part of the Freesat specification, Humax deliberately left the box very light on features in that department. I presume your Sat4Free receiver falls into that category also.

I have two other FTA receivers, plus a motorised dish and also two PCs with satellite and DTT tuners, so I find that each has its strengths and weaknesses in terms of flexibility.

No harm trying a return of the box to Power City if you explain that you wanted a more general purpose receiver, though;)