Zuffa ban another sponsor, for the right reasons this time.

DrPhilG

http://www.mmaunltd.com/news-detail.asp/NewsID/1124/hoelzer-reich-banned-from-zuffa-promotions.htm

Proper order. I've been involved in debates about this issue on sherdog and on the Fight Club forums. This crew are very dodgy and I'm glad they've finally been banned.

They use the "technicality" that all of the Nazi symbols originated before Hitler and were only adopted by his regime, therefore they are perfectly innocent by themselves.

However they have various links to extremist rock bands and individuals and I think they're a disgrace.

Well done Zuffa, but a bit too late. And just to top it off, they didn't show most of the walk ins at the TUF finale, but one they did show was Brammer against Bocek, and Brammer was wearing Hoelzer Reich gear.

peter p

I actually never noticed that brand on any ufc ive watched, but god its a bit of an extreme logo to have all right!:eek:

DrPhilG

peter p wrote: »

I actually never noticed that brand on any ufc ive watched, but god its a bit of an extreme logo to have all right!:eek:

They've only recently started to get high profile fighters. Mac Danzig has been sponsored by them, as has Donald Cerrone in the WEC.

Brammer at the TUF finale was the first time I've seen them on TV, and that shirt wasn't even one of their worst.

peter p

We do not have any Political affiliations with any organizations, nor specific views of any controversial parties. Our interest in the Iron Cross and German history comes strictly from a historical and ancestral standpoint. For many years, we have collected German memorabilia dating back to the early 1800's, which has been passed through the family for generations. The Iron cross symbol and other German-inspired imagery used on our apparel dates back hundreds of years, and does not depict a certain time of German History.

Sincerely,

Jed Colvin - Owner
Jamie Vine - Owner / Designer


Had a look at there web page and this is what is written in the "About us" section.
Lookin at there t-shirts, theres no swastika signs or anything, and the iron cross dates back a few hundred years.
But everyone only remembers it from ww2. I myself wouldnt be seen wearing it thats for sure.
Dont some biker clubs wear that cross on there jackets??

rovert

peter p wrote: »

Dont some biker clubs wear that cross on there jackets??

Yep

Triple H a WWE wrestler has the iron cross on his trunks

Motorhead use it in their artwork

DrPhilG

peter p wrote: »

We do not have any Political affiliations with any organizations, nor specific views of any controversial parties. Our interest in the Iron Cross and German history comes strictly from a historical and ancestral standpoint. For many years, we have collected German memorabilia dating back to the early 1800's, which has been passed through the family for generations. The Iron cross symbol and other German-inspired imagery used on our apparel dates back hundreds of years, and does not depict a certain time of German History.


Had a look at there web page and this is what is written in the "About us" section.
Lookin at there t-shirts, theres no swastika signs or anything, and the iron cross dates back a few hundred years.
But everyone only remembers it from ww2. I myself wouldnt be seen wearing it thats for sure.
Dont some biker clubs wear that cross on there jackets??

Exactly, their defence is that none of the symbols used are specifically Nazi or originated from the Nazis, eg the Iron cross, eagle, helmet, even the lightning symbols. Even the swastika originated before Hitler adopted it.

But when a company with strong Neo Nazi/White power links uses them all in their shirts, and while they avoided the swastika, the HR logo looks very like one, it's a bit suspect.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and there's a strong smell of duck sh1t about...

Raze_them_all

rovert wrote: »

Yep

Triple H a WWE wrestler has the iron cross on his trunks

Motorhead use it in their artwork

Isn't west coast choppers logo the iron cross too

t-ha

Alot of people use the iron cross, but these guys have nazi/ss symbols all over their gear. Iron cross + ss skull + strength and honour (alot like blood and honour) + numerous other graphics associated with the ss = nazi gear. To think otherwise is being blind.

RugbyFanatic

Quite obviously neo nazi clothing. Don't know why Zuffa took so long to ban it

Dyr

and while they avoided the swastika, the HR logo looks very like one, it's a bit suspect.

nah, It's a clever combination of the wolftrap and odal runes, both of which were the insignia of SS regiments...still blatantly nazi

sonic.trip

never noticed that before, very suspicious alright!

FiannaGym.com

Well this isn't really MMA related but...

One of the symbols of the gay pride movement is the pink triangle, which of course, comes from the concentration camp method of identifying prisoners according to their 'crime'.

The gay pride movement have since usurped this symbol and made it their own, in a similar way that they have taken over words traditionally filled with homophobic hate.

What the gay pride movement have done is taken the tools, the symbols of hate and made them brands for their own freedom and pride.

The rest of us have not been half as intelligent or focused and instead we (as this thread testifies) allow images and symbols to dominate our opinions. In effect, we empower a loose band of hateful idiots into one identifiable 'brand' the Neo-Nazi, and we endow 'their' images with 'power'. In essence we have fetishised these images - the Shaztika which is absolutely ancient, the Iron Cross (which thankful is being taken back and is loosing its power), the lightening bolts, etc. all contain the power to offend, to scare and to unite hate groups.

When we finally take all of these images and make them everyday, and normal they will cease to have any power and it will disrupt the highly successful branding project that is the Nazi movement.

So in essence, Zuffa, this thread, and most people, are responsible for the power of these symbols... not Hitler and not concentration camps... as is proven by the gay pride movement having taken ownership of their war time identifier.

Peace

Dyr

If the analogy with the gay pride movement was to be accurate then they would have had to adopted the totenkopf as their symbol rather than the badge that was used to marginalise them.

FiannaGym.com

No, the point made about the pink triangle is that the power, meaning and semiological significance of an icon can be (and is) morphed and changed. These 'Nazi' images are no different. The Swastika has a very different meaning in India than it does in Europe and that's because it is a sign suspended in a complex web of signification.

Therefore, we, like gay pride, could decide to usurp these images but of course we don't.

Peace

DrPhilG

I take your point about "de-criminalising" the symbols so to speak. However I highly doubt this was the intention of Hoelzer Reich, no matter what they claim.

rovert

Anyone ever look up MMA on the Stormfront? Just some of the worst things you could ever read. They are big Brock fans so it aint all bad. :pac:

paulieeye

FiannaGym.com wrote: »

No, the point made about the pink triangle is that the power, meaning and semiological significance of an icon can be (and is) morphed and changed. These 'Nazi' images are no different. The Swastika has a very different meaning in India than it does in Europe and that's because it is a sign suspended in a complex web of signification.

Therefore, we, like gay pride, could decide to usurp these images but of course we don't.

Peace

One problem with your logic there buddy, the pick triangle was used to identify gay people in ww2. They have now adopted it to identify themselves, maybe because that was such an oppressive and harrowing time for gay people, they didnt change the meaning of anything...from ww2 on it was always used to idenitfy gay people.

Thats exactly how we in europe and most other countries now approach the iron cross and the swastika, we identify nazi beliefs by them. Its pretty hard to ignore such a huge event and 'morph' the symbols into something pretty like a symbol for eternity.

Wacker

rovert wrote: »

Anyone ever look up MMA on the Stormfront? Just some of the worst things you could ever read. They are big Brock fans so it aint all bad. :pac:

Yeah, I read what they have to say quite frequently. It makes me love it when a black fighter wins! They get so mad, and come up with the most ludicrous, obnoxious explanations.

AARRRGH

I rest my case.

JohnMc1

LOL. this sums up the HR stuff pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQvDZ78mT8I

c montgomery

The swastika is used in the budist religion and is a very popular symbol used to decorate many temples and shrines all over asia.

I think the nazis robbed it from them and used it as their own. Ever since this it has been associated with the nazis rather than with buddists.