End of Year Handicap Review

jimjo

Not sure if this subject really merits a thread on it’s own but I didn’t want to hijack the affordable membership thread by asking a handicap question.

I just wanted a little information on the end of year review. Do all clubs undertake a review of handicaps at the end of the year? I’m sure in a perfect world they say they do but in large clubs or as highlighted in another thread, large numbers being distance members, they must be difficult to monitor.

Have people here been cut a shot or two in these reviews or similarly been given a shot?? If you’re constantly coming in with 34-35 points and just below the CSS would that put you in that bracket of potentially being cut in the end of year handicap review? Or again if you cant play to your handicap and have done it all year long would your handicap increase?

Atlantic1

In Cork, any club worth its salt does an end of year handicap review. (Except probably for one country club somewhere towards the north of the county which no other club would like to draw in a Pierce Purcell match). :mad:

What the Handicap Committee will look at will be notable scores in fourballs, classics, scores posted in non-counting competitions (esp. winter rules competitions etc., where no CSS can be declared and players can't automatically be cut), etc.

I reckon that there isn't a hope in hell that a member could be cut for consistently having 34/35 points in competition.

And if a member can't play to his handicap, he should state so in writing to his Handicap Committee and look for an upward review of his handicap.

It should also be noted that there's always a good chance of "a shot back" if the member has had a medical condition/operation etc. that might have a detrimental affect on him when he returns to golf. A Handicap Committee can recommend an increase in handicap, in a situation like this, but it has to be approved by the Provincial Branch of the G.U.I.

And don't believe the rumours that you'll hear now and again in your club that, if you have a huge score in a non competitive round, that you have to declare it to the Handicap Committee, and you'll be cut. Not so!

ShriekingSheet

The EOYR is particularly useful now that society scores are no longer applicable for on-th-spot cuts. Instead, society scores are noted, and then taken into account at the EOYR.

Along with society scores, match play results, team competition wins (eg: fourball), perhaps scores while winter rules were in place, and anything else that's not straight forward stableford or strokes with no placing.

As a rough idea, (with the exception of those off 5 or better) the winner of a match play competition will be cut a full shot, and the runner up .5.

slingerz

My handicap went up this year. I really have to start playing more my membership isnt worthwhile if I dont use it but the working week is killing me so i cant get any practice in during the brighter months!

blackwaterfish

I got my first GUI handicap this summer.... my esteemable club hon. secretary & membership handicap manager gave me a h'cap of 9.5, playing off 10.


in reality im playing to 15... but thank you gentlemen for assuming i was a cowboy and that i had deliberately tanked my 3 cards.

this is what happens when paranoia takes hold of those in administration and they view every new member thru cynical eyes. Obviously somewhere along the line they've been burned by cheaters. But who do you blame?

Im completely out of it in every form of competition, no chance whatsoever, but Im still thoroughly enjoying my golf, however its been very frustrating at times. If i hit over 30 points its been a very good day.

PhilipMarlowe

blackwaterfish wrote: »

I got my first GUI handicap this summer.... my esteemable club hon. secretary & membership handicap manager gave me a h'cap of 9.5, playing off 10.


in reality im playing to 15... but thank you gentlemen for assuming i was a cowboy and that i had deliberately tanked my 3 cards.

this is what happens when paranoia takes hold of those in administration and they view every new member thru cynical eyes. Obviously somewhere along the line they've been burned by cheaters. But who do you blame?

Im completely out of it in every form of competition, no chance whatsoever, but Im still thoroughly enjoying my golf, however its been very frustrating at times. If i hit over 30 points its been a very good day.

Because it's your first handicap, you're likely to improve at the game. It's not necessarily about cynicism.
What were the scores you handed in initially and were there any big numbers on individual holes in those cards?

blackwaterfish

Licksy wrote: »

Because it's your first handicap, you're likely to improve at the game. It's not necessarily about cynicism.
What were the scores you handed in initially and were there any big numbers on individual holes in those cards?

Played socially from ages 13 to 16.... then again in the last 2 years and took the plunge in july and joined up. throughout my career ( lol ) as a social golfer ive always played in the mid to high 80s but more often than not in the mid 90s

of my 3 cards each had at least 3 big no'.s - from what i was told any big no.s were immediatly disregarded by the aministrator.

ah look, im not bitter, disappointed yes, but i'll get over it. i was hoping to be more competitive in the weekly comps but it hasnt transpired that way. right now im focusing on improvement and less on results... hopefully in time... ( say 2 years! ) i'll meet my h'cap coming up to meet me as i go down and it will balance out.... eventually possibly maybe!

my only other option is to take voluntary redundancy and play fulltime for 12 months, kick golf ass and have several mistresses and release my own sports entertainment drink!

jonas7

Back in March/April this year i had an unbelieveable run of form in which i won three competions (including a medal) with 42,43 and 44 points.There was placing everywhere for these competitions so my handicap (16 at the time) was untouched.Since then i have got down to 14 but i'm hopeful that these scores will be looked at in the eoyr and i'll get a further reduction.Anyone any idea of how much of a cut is likely?

Par71

jonas7 wrote: »

Back in March/April this year i had an unbelieveable run of form in which i won three competions (including a medal) with 42,43 and 44 points.There was placing everywhere for these competitions so my handicap (16 at the time) was untouched.Since then i have got down to 14 but i'm hopeful that these scores will be looked at in the eoyr and i'll get a further reduction.Anyone any idea of how much of a cut is likely?

You wont get cut for this, If there was placing everywhere its a non qualifying competition.

jonas7

Par71 wrote: »

You wont get cut for this, If there was placing everywhere its a non qualifying competition.

Are you sure about that? I thought you could be cut on form in non qualifying comps at the end of the year?

Mister Sifter

Par71 wrote: »

You wont get cut for this, If there was placing everywhere its a non qualifying competition.

That's not true at all. The purpose of the EOYR is to identify golfers who have been scoring well in competitions which have not resulted in the player being cut. That would include non-qualifiying competitions.

Matt Santos

blackwaterfish wrote: »

I got my first GUI handicap this summer.... my esteemable club hon. secretary & membership handicap manager gave me a h'cap of 9.5, playing off 10.


in reality im playing to 15... but thank you gentlemen for assuming i was a cowboy and that i had deliberately tanked my 3 cards.

this is what happens when paranoia takes hold of those in administration and they view every new member thru cynical eyes. Obviously somewhere along the line they've been burned by cheaters. But who do you blame?

Im completely out of it in every form of competition, no chance whatsoever, but Im still thoroughly enjoying my golf, however its been very frustrating at times. If i hit over 30 points its been a very good day.

Blackwaterfish,
This is exactly the same thing that happened to me when I took the plunge and joined my first Golf Club.
I was well disappointed that the Handicap Secretary took it that my three submitted cards were a thing of fiction and decided to put me, in my opinion, four shots out of the handicap!! I was embarressed to play in any four ball event with a partner thinking that I was a genuine 10 and as you said being delighted to return 32/33 pts off 10!!
Eventually with play and the system I started to be genuine at about 12. And then the handicap started to drop. So, the ideal situation is that the Handicap Sec, who has a limited knowledge of everybodys golfing ability, got it more or less right even though it took a year and a half to settle down correctly.
The bother is that the Handicap Sec changes every two years or so and when you get someone who is not brave enough to implement the neccessary cuts to the obvious Club bandits you get bitterness and Club division. It amazes me how everybody knows the crooks in the Bar yet the person with the power to change this is oblivious to this fact!!
This choker thinks that he is maintaining the status quo but in reality he is becoming the face of the biggest gripe in the Club:mad:

blackwaterfish

mattsantos

its so encouraging to hear that things sort of leveled out for you. and your right... the level of expectation that comes from playing partners when you hand them your card with a 10 on it is bloody hard to ignore at times. you can hear the roaring weight of expectation weigh down on you as you address the ball. its an amazing feeling tho when you send it out there.. the relief washes over you... its almost worth it!

not.

however, it really hits hard when i play opens... i have zero chance from the outset assuming everyone else's h'cap is calculated with some accuracy.

it ranckles.

GreeBo

Also the handicapping software will flag up some people for "manual" review...assuming its in use

Sandwich

blackwaterfish wrote: »

of my 3 cards each had at least 3 big no'.s - from what i was told any big no.s were immediatly disregarded by the aministrator. QUOTE]

Which is what the system specifies that he do. So maybe your handicap is correct.

Also, you should be uncompetitive, or close to uncompetitive, in most round that you play. If you are bettering SS more than once in 10 rounds then your handicap is probably too high.

blackwaterfish

tbh sandwich i really dont mind that big numbers are ignored.... fact is im way off being capable of beating the ss and the membership manager is openly notorious amongst members for his heavy hand when it comes to hcap calcs...

he plays himself so theres a conflict of interest there. sounds daft, simplistic and unlikely but there you go.

i didnt expect initially to be at the top end but certainly was very surprised when i recieved my text to say i was 1 digit away from a single figure handicap.


anyhow, whats done is done, just getting on with it now and enjoying my gradual improvement and ignoring my results.

thegen

Lads quick one.

I know EOYR will take in societies etc, but does it allow for away fourball betterball results?

Dtoffee

Quick query, in the EOYR is the value of prizes considered?

What would be considered worthy of a full shot reduction?

Sandwlch

Dtoffee wrote: »

Quick query, in the EOYR is the value of prizes considered?

What would be considered worthy of a full shot reduction?

No.

A scoring average that is outside the statistical norm.

Alrite Chief

I got a full stroke cut in this review to my surprise. Anyone know the criteria?

Dossy

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I got a full stroke cut in this review to my surprise. Anyone know the criteria?

I wish i got cut, im waiting in hope i will, im after joining a different club as iv moved away from home and im unsure should i ring to get it transferred up now or wait incase i miss the review but miss getting reviewed at my new club where i played all my comps!!

Any thoughts??

Dtoffee

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I got a full stroke cut in this review to my surprise. Anyone know the criteria?

Well how about 3rd in a 12 hole invitational fourball and 1st in class in an interclub 4ball .... prizes €10 voucher and 2 bottles of wine. Not another screed won all year or the year before, but a full shot cut for such success.

This is fair if everyone is treated the same, but I have my doubts and I suppose I would be deemed cynical to suggest that there are golfers who can return 38pts at will and pick up quite a few prizes over the year, whilst balancing their handicap and never drawing attention to themselves.

Seems any success in Non Qualifying comps is open to a cut, hence I will not be arsed in supporting such events this year as its not worth it.

Neil Andblomee

Dtoffee wrote: »

Well how about 3rd in a 12 hole invitational fourball and 1st in class in an interclub 4ball .... prizes €10 voucher and 2 bottles of wine. Not another screed won all year or the year before, but a full shot cut for such success.

This is fair if everyone is treated the same, but I have my doubts and I suppose I would be deemed cynical to suggest that there are golfers who can return 38pts at will and pick up quite a few prizes over the year, whilst balancing their handicap and never drawing attention to themselves.

Seems any success in Non Qualifying comps is open to a cut, hence I will not be arsed in supporting such events this year as its not worth it.

You seem to think your handicap secretary has the final say on the matter, he doesn't, if you are unhappy with his application of the system then you can take it further with the relevant bodies if you like, that seems like a better option to me than throwing your toys out of your pram.

Sandwlch

Neil Andblomee wrote: »

that seems like a better option to me than throwing your toys out of your pram.

It does indeed, particularly when he is coming from a position of ignorance of the handicapping system. (For starters, wins per se, prize values, scores in 12 hole non qualifying competitions have nothing to do with handicap adjustments).

The good news is at the end of Dtoffee's post - the competitive golfing world will be the better without a player who feels his bounty hunting chances arent financially good enough after a 1 shot reduction.

Dtoffee

Sandwlch wrote: »

It does indeed, particularly when he is coming from a position of ignorance of the handicapping system. (For starters, wins per se, prize values, scores in 12 hole non qualifying competitions have nothing to do with handicap adjustments).

The good news is at the end of Dtoffee's post - the competitive golfing world will be the better without a player who feels his bounty hunting chances arent financially good enough after a 1 shot reduction.

Interesting opinion of me, given that you dont know me and the circumstances around my situation. Would you care to share your knowledge of the system and explain why 12 hole NQ comps have nothing to do with EOYR handicap adjustments ..... are they not recognised? I am only going by what I have been told and would welcome your input.

As for bounty hunting, well you start by saying the 'compeditive golf world' and that is not really where I am or have been for a long long time due to issues that have nothing to do with golf.

Neil Andblomee

Dtoffee wrote: »

Interesting opinion of me, given that you dont know me and the circumstances around my situation. Would you care to share your knowledge of the system and explain why 12 hole NQ comps have nothing to do with EOYR handicap adjustments ..... are they not recognised? I am only going by what I have been told and would welcome your input.

As for bounty hunting, well you start by saying the 'compeditive golf world' and that is not really where I am or have been for a long long time due to issues that have nothing to do with golf.

No need to get the hump, I'm sure he's only having the craic and just busting your balls, although in saying that, in general those people who complain about handicap cuts (or playing off too low a handicap) are usually the same people that are only interested in prizes and their ability to win said prizes, in my experience.
You can always educate yourself here and not have to rely on hearsay and 2nd hand info.

millerj

Atlantic1 wrote: »

In Cork, any club worth its salt does an end of year handicap review. (Except probably for one country club somewhere towards the north of the county which no other club would like to draw in a Pierce Purcell match). :mad:

What the Handicap Committee will look at will be notable scores in fourballs, classics, scores posted in non-counting competitions (esp. winter rules competitions etc., where no CSS can be declared and players can't automatically be cut), etc.

I reckon that there isn't a hope in hell that a member could be cut for consistently having 34/35 points in competition.

And if a member can't play to his handicap, he should state so in writing to his Handicap Committee and look for an upward review of his handicap.

It should also be noted that there's always a good chance of "a shot back" if the member has had a medical condition/operation etc. that might have a detrimental affect on him when he returns to golf. A Handicap Committee can recommend an increase in handicap, in a situation like this, but it has to be approved by the Provincial Branch of the G.U.I.

And don't believe the rumours that you'll hear now and again in your club that, if you have a huge score in a non competitive round, that you have to declare it to the Handicap Committee, and you'll be cut. Not so!

Ha ha! would the club you are talking of rhyme with "cant work"

Alrite Chief

Im not sure how much it has to do with the handicap sec at all. From my reading since it seems an automatic thing with the GUI so they haven't a breeze what you've been winning be it a bottle of vino or a flat screen tv.

Apparently if your scoring is above the statistical average you are in for a cut. A lot of paranoia on here of lads managing their handicap but would you really be arsed not trying for 50 rounds a year just for one or two rounds you bring out the A game. This annual handicap review seems about as fair as the exceptional score reduction. You can feel a bit robbed or you can feel proud of yourself you've been cut. Most of us want cuts. Don't we?

Id a decent year prize wise and know lads winning nothing all year. Don't care about prizes getting down as far as possible would be the best prize for me.

spacecoyote

2013 was my first year as a member of a club when I haven't gotten an EOY cut.

To be honest I think they've all been fair cuts & fair that this year I wasn't cut, based on my average scoring each year.

I've probably won roughly the same number of prizes & value of prizes each year too, so in dont put any weight in the value of prizes argument

Ciaranra

blackwaterfish wrote: »

of my 3 cards each had at least 3 big no'.s - from what i was told any big no.s were immediatly disregarded by the aministrator. QUOTE]

Which is what the system specifies that he do. So maybe your handicap is correct.

Also, you should be uncompetitive, or close to uncompetitive, in most round that you play. If you are bettering SS more than once in 10 rounds then your handicap is probably too high.

Would not agree to this, Id say your handicap is to low at those stats

uberwolf

is there any way of establishing from golfnet whether an end of year assessment has been conducted? Don't want to ring the handicap sec and am holding our a faint hope of an end of year cut

ForeRight

uberwolf wrote: »

is there any way of establishing from golfnet whether an end of year assessment has been conducted? Don't want to ring the handicap sec and am holding our a faint hope of an end of year cut

It will tell you in Golfnet if you got one and what handicap you carry forward into 2014

Sandwlch

uberwolf wrote: »

is there any way of establishing from golfnet whether an end of year assessment has been conducted? Don't want to ring the handicap sec and am holding our a faint hope of an end of year cut

'end of year' is a bit of a misnomer, so may not have taken place yet. It can happen at any time throughout the year. During the last quarter is recommended but not obligatory.