Should PJ Stone and Michael O'Boyce of the GRA be arrested?

gent9662

Given they are breaking the law, should they be held accountable for calling a vote?

ei.sdraob

arrested by whom?

OnTheBalls

I don't think so. Right what they are doing is illegal. But this country NEEDS some extreme measures. The situation is deteriorating more rapidly every hour of the day. Although they are breaking the law I support them. I mean the guards are not the bad guys. The corrupt government is. The guards are pissed off because they are getting screwed over by a corrupt government. Why are qwe after their heads. We need to go after Fianna Fail. I found it ironic and hypocratic that dermot ahern is giving out about the guards saying they are breaking the law.

Look at your party you ****ing buffoon. I think the Irish public are afraid of the harsh extreme measures that are needed to rid this state of corrupt bankers and politicians. If Fianna Fail ever get elected ....... well that would be a catastrophe for Ireland and my faith in the irish people.

Riskymove

dclane wrote: »

Given they are breaking the law, should they be held accountable for calling a vote?

what law have they broken?

ei.sdraob

OnTheBalls wrote: »

I don't think so. Right what they are doing is illegal. But this country NEEDS some extreme measures. The situation is deteriorating more rapidly every hour of the day. Although they are breaking the law I support them. I mean the guards are not the bad guys. The corrupt government is. The guards are pissed off because they are getting screwed over by a corrupt government. Why are qwe after their heads. We need to go after Fianna Fail. I found it ironic and hypocratic that dermot ahern is giving out about the guards saying they are breaking the law.

Look at your party you ****ing buffoon. I think the Irish public are afraid of the harsh extreme measures that are needed to rid this state of corrupt bankers and politicians. If Fianna Fail ever get elected ....... well that would be a catastrophe for Ireland and my faith in the irish people.

theres no denying that FF seriously ****ed up and are corrupt

but whatever government comes in will still have to cut the PS wages

theres just no way out of it, since the money is being borrowed not taken out of taxes

jimmmy

OnTheBalls wrote: »

The guards are pissed off because they are getting screwed over by a corrupt government.

I am no friend or admirer of Fianna Fail but you have to recognise that if anyone was screwed, it was the Gardai / p.s who screwed the rest of us. The average pay in the Gardai across all ages / grades is 60,000. They can retire after 30 years service on big pensions. The Gardai are the lucky ones. Most other police forces in the world are not as well looked after.

gandalf

Yes and they should face the full penalties from the Garda Act which is 5 years imprisonment and 50K Euro in fines.

bringingitall

Riskymove wrote: »

what law have they broken?

Gardai holding a ballot for industrial action is ilegal they are forbid under legislation to hold a strike or ballot for industrial.

In fact the GRA are not even a union and are not recognised as such in Irish law, the fact that they think they can hold a ballot is reason enough to doubt the intellegience of the GRA chiefs

super_furry

Gardai will lose any moral authority if this comes to pass. Anyone breaking the law should be held accountable - most of all Gardai.

brianthebard

super_furry wrote: »

Gardai will lose any moral authority if this comes to pass. Anyone breaking the law should be held accountable - most of all Gardai.

All laws should be upheld, all the time?

whatnext

I often felt that some of the Gardai I knew felf they were above the law (this is my opinion of them, I have no "link" to back up my "opinion" and not some thing that I can give examples of what it is based on with out giving names and specific examples of, which I am sure is not a route we want to go down)..

Anyway, these muppets have only proven "to me" that this attitude goes right to the top.

gandalf

bringingitall wrote: »

Gardai holding a ballot for industrial action is ilegal they are forbid under legislation to hold a strike or ballot for industrial.

In fact the GRA are not even a union and are not recognised as such in Irish law, the fact that they think they can hold a ballot is reason enough to doubt the intellegience of the GRA chiefs

The fact that they are not an official union means they are open to people or the government taking a civil action against them as well.

In fairness,they do *do* a job that if they didn't do it,we'd all know about it.
They take an awfull lot of shít on our behalf with scumbags most of us would see but don't on account of them.

That function is almost for the mastercard ad to be honest-priceless.

However-I do feel that they should be hauled in and given the option of a 10 year pay and allowances freeze OR to take the cuts everybody else is taking.
Some of the ridiculous allowances should be scrapped [The one called the lanzerote allowance whereby they get paid extra on holidays because they dont get to do overtime when on holidays for instance :rolleyes: what a ridiculous allowance].

I think that would be a fair compromise.

I believe exceptionally essential services like nurses and Gardaí cannot and should not be messed about.
I'd have no recruitment ban there for instance.
I believe if the health service was hiring as many nurses instead of pen pushers,then we'd be getting somewhere.

super_furry

brianthebard wrote: »

All laws should be upheld, all the time?

Either that or they should be removed from the statute books. The laws governing those who are supposed to uphold them, should always be upheld.

gent9662

When do you think it stopped being about upholding the constitution and law of the republic of Ireland and started to become more of a question of how much is in pay and allowances.

Are there any Gardai in this forum that will say they disagree with what the GRA is doing?

whatnext

Just out of couriosity, with such a fundamental breach of contract would these guys or any striking Garda be putting their pensions at risk??????

Dr Galen

i wasn't aware that they had broken any law yet?

If and only if, they do decide on a walkout, well then they would be breaking the law as per the act 2007, and of course those involved shold be reprimanded. That stands whether you support or disagree with their action.

For this to be seen as anything more than posturing is wide of the mark. Pre-talks feather plumping is part of industrial relations.

bringingitall

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of the ridiculous allowances should be scrapped [The one called the lanzerote allowance whereby they get paid extra on holidays because they dont get to do overtime when on holidays for instance :rolleyes: what a ridiculous allowance]

That is well and truly crazy i'd like to see a Garda defend that one

Drumpot

Yes . . They should be arrested . . .

Not doing so opens the door for the rest of us to quote that if we dont want to pay taxes or other legal requirements (and some will try it out) .

I think this is an own goal for them as the perks (57 of them) that guards get will hopefully be highlighted. They can be told "Ok, we aint touching your gross wage" but your "add ons" are being stripped down to the bare bones . .

Long Onion

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i wasn't aware that they had broken any law yet?

If and only if, they do decide on a walkout, well then they would be breaking the law as per the act 2007, and of course those involved shold be reprimanded. That stands whether you support or disagree with their action.

For this to be seen as anything more than posturing is wide of the mark. Pre-talks feather plumping is part of industrial relations.

The heads of the GRA have indeed broken the law insofar as they are inciting others to breach the relevant legislation. I do think that arresting them now would be premature and runs the risk of martyrdom.

Should a strike look imminent, then they should be arrested and charged just as anyone else would be - however, should this course of action be followed SEan Fitzpatrck should go down first.

granturismo

dclane wrote: »

Given they are breaking the law, should they be held accountable for calling a vote?

Are PJ Stone and O'Boyce serving Gardai? if not then they have not broken any laws by facilitating their members to strike, nor will these two individuals be liable for prosectuion if Gardai go on strike.

bringingitall

Good point they should be happy that their allowances aren't hit or their so called big cheque

gent9662

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i wasn't aware that they had broken any law yet?

If and only if, they do decide on a walkout, well then they would be breaking the law as per the act 2007, and of course those involved shold be reprimanded. That stands whether you support or disagree with their action.

For this to be seen as anything more than posturing is wide of the mark. Pre-talks feather plumping is part of industrial relations.

Under the Garda Siochána Act 2005 it is a criminal offence for a member of the force to withdraw their labour or to induce anybody to withdraw their labour.

On conviction the offence carries a penalty of up to five years in jail and/or a fine of up to €50,000.

Gardaí take an oath when they enter the force to uphold the law.

Dr Galen

59.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she induces, or
does any act calculated to induce, any member of the Garda Sı´och-
a´ na to withhold his or her services or to commit a breach of
discipline.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding \3,000 or
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or
both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding
\50,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years
or both.

this seems the most relevant bit of the AGS Act 2005 to this action.

I'm not a lawyer, but it's great to see we have some many posters who are so well informed of such things. IMHO I think it would be pretty hard to prove in court, this balloting for industrial action is the same as noted in the act.

However, if they do ballot, and the motion passes. If anyone is basically found to be organising the action, or facilitating the action, then I'd say they would be committing an offence.

platinum76

black briar your comment about the so called 'lanzarote allowance' is incorrect. gardai who work shift work daily receive a shift allowance like every shift worker in the country. if they take annual leave they receive a shift allowance for that days leave. this is normal as i have worked shift work in a number of multinational companies and receive the same. they only receive a shift allowance if the hours are outside normal working hours, ie if they are due to work a nine to five and take a day off they dont get shift pay for it and definitely dont get overtime. dont believe the b******* in the papers. the real tragedy here is the government have managed to put a spin on these issues turning private sector against public workers and deflecting away from the main issues. we should be all pulling together imo.

gent9662

platinum76 wrote: »

black briar your comment about the so called 'lanzarote allowance' is incorrect. gardai who work shift work daily receive a shift allowance like every shift worker in the country. if they take annual leave they receive a shift allowance for that days leave. this is normal as i have worked shift work in a number of multinational companies and receive the same. they only receive a shift allowance if the hours are outside normal working hours, ie if they are due to work a nine to five and take a day off they dont get shift pay for it and definitely dont get overtime. dont believe the b******* in the papers. the real tragedy here is the government have managed to put a spin on these issues turning private sector against public workers and deflecting away from the main issues. we should be all pulling together imo.

+ if put on clerical duty(9-5) an allowance to compensate you for the allowances your missing by not working unsocial hours

jimmmy

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe exceptionally essential services like nurses and Gardaí cannot and should not be messed about.
I'd have no recruitment ban there for instance.

Yet they think there are so overstaffed / there is so much fat in the system that they can take 12 days unpaid leave, without services suffering, so they can have more time off to do their shopping in Newry ?

Drumpot

Personally, I think the unions cant blame anybody but themselves for the public v private divide. .

Whatever message they wanted to portray (for sympathy or support) they simply make the average private sector employee (or unemployed) sick and disgusted.

They will not discuss any issues that are actually important to private sector employees (job security, guaranteed pension, ESRI/CSO figures that dont back up much of their claims) and yet are surprised when they dont get support nationally . . Thats not even going into the way they make out the public service to being the main victims of the recession. This is just wrong on so many levels, I wouldnt know where to begin .

The government didn't have to do much for the divide, the unions did most of the work themselves.

platinum76

all of these issues were here during the good times as well. there were no complaints then when the private sector was doing well. no doubt there is alot of wastage in the public sector but not as much as the media would have you believe. imo there is a need for change in the public sector and it should be led from the top.

the government has managed to put a spin on this recession and fed it to joe public that somehow the public sector pay is responsible for the situation we are in and we have swallowed it with the result that society is divided public V's private. this does nothing to lift the mood of the nation into trying to find a solution by pulling together. i feel sorry for lots of private sector people who find themselves out of work but its not the ordinary public sector workers fault.
sorry for getting off the thread issue!!

jimmycrackcorm

platinum76 wrote: »

all of these issues were here during the good times as well. there were no complaints then when the private sector was doing well. no doubt there is alot of wastage in the public sector but not as much as the media would have you believe. imo there is a need for change in the public sector and it should be led from the top.

the government has managed to put a spin on this recession and fed it to joe public that somehow the public sector pay is responsible for the situation we are in and we have swallowed it with the result that society is divided public V's private. this does nothing to lift the mood of the nation into trying to find a solution by pulling together. i feel sorry for lots of private sector people who find themselves out of work but its not the ordinary public sector workers fault.
sorry for getting off the thread issue!!

We didn't care during the boom because there was plenty of money floating about but now there isn't we're going to have to be cost-conscious.

This constant mantra of "but its not the ordinary public sector workers fault" is the real reason for the public / private divide because the public service still can't rationalize the need to cut the public paybill regardless of fault. I didn't need the Government to influence my math skills to work out €20bn PS + €20bn SW > €34bn tax revenue. And that's just before the whole NAMA / Banking costs.

Drumpot

platinum76 wrote: »

the government has managed to put a spin on this recession and fed it to joe public that somehow the public sector pay is responsible for the situation we are in and we have swallowed it with the result that society is divided public V's private. this does nothing to lift the mood of the nation into trying to find a solution by pulling together. i feel sorry for lots of private sector people who find themselves out of work but its not the ordinary public sector workers fault.
sorry for getting off the thread issue!!

Im afraid I have to disagree with you . . Most of the spin was from the unions . .

They wont acknowledge or discuss statistical sources (ESRI/CSO) that conflict with their wayward views on public service pay.

If you really believe (which I dont) that most people have been "brainwashed" by the government I have to say, then the other side of the arguement have been brainwashed by the Unions. Whether we think the government are any good or not, they have more of a vested interest in OUR ECONOMY and its recovery, as opposed to the unions who are ONLY interested in their members. Two completely different motives, however you look at it.

Most people angry with the STANCE of some public servants and their unions, is nothing to do with anything the government have said. Its their attitude and assumptions that they are being targeted and attacked, like nobody else has suffered anything. Social welfare and child benefit are being cut. Private sector employees have taken serious pain and continue to do so (but public service unions only use comparisons with private sector when it suits them).

Believe you me, there are ill educated on both sides. But from a majority of people I speak do about this topic, its actually the attitude of some people who constantly ignore the pain the rest of us are going through. Its the whole dismissive nature "Oh I know you lost your job . . But" . . I have seen responses like this from some on these forums . . Its so out of touch with reality and disingenuous.

I will gladly discuss, in detail, the points I have made above, but the problem is that generally most public servants defendents only want to call me a Public service basher or throw out random comments trying to turn this debate into a namecalling school fight.

I understand anybody trying to hold onto their salary, thats just human instinct.

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

[The one called the lanzerote allowance whereby they get paid extra on holidays because they dont get to do overtime when on holidays for instance :rolleyes: what a ridiculous allowance].

Oh my God, are you serious? does this allowance exist? :eek:

danman

Yes, it's been discussed at length by various radio stations, media, over the past few months.

murphaph

Fcuk me. I knew the public sector was a parallel universe but that takes the biscuit.

platinum76

the public/private divide is as a result of the government campaign to generate interest away from the main issue. there was wastage in the public sector (and private sector) in the boom times even more so than now, and as you pointed out we didnt hear about because there was plenty of money about, and more so because the government didnt begin their campaign against the Pub Ser until the early days of the recession. the private sector bought into it as it meant that in effect the public service could be blamed for the lack of cash and not the private sector. everyone wants someone else to pay!

there is no doubt that the public sector must make a contribution to argue otherwise is stupid. but the unfair targeting of public service workers to bear the brunt of it is just wrong and unfair. it has succeeded in diverting attention from away from the fact that fianna fail made a mess of it, as we all know.

Drumpot

platinum76 wrote: »

the private sector bought into it as it meant that in effect the public service could be blamed for the lack of cash and not the private sector. everyone wants someone else to pay!

there is no doubt that the public sector must make a contribution to argue otherwise is stupid. but the unfair targeting of public service workers to bear the brunt of it is just wrong and unfair. it has succeeded in diverting attention from away from the fact that fianna fail made a mess of it, as we all know.

At least you try to articulate your points, for that, you are a step ahead of some of the other posters here . .

What I must pull you up on is that nobody thinks the public sector is to blame for the lack of cash. . You find me posts that say those very words and I will point out a liar. If you really believe this is what a majority of private sector employees (or unemployed) are upset about you have been misinformed. .

People are looking at this from the cold hard facts of how our country is situated financially. Its very basic and simple economics, your employer is making huge losses, he has to cut his costs. People keep quoting their own personal circumstances, but where do we stop with the cuts ? How many people in any sector do not have a hard luck story at the moment ?

Why do you believe that the public service are being targeted ?

You see its comments like that, that really gets to people who have taken what they would consider as "real recession pain". . 11% paycut sounds about right for the state our country is in (to be honest many believe that it could of gone further and in the next few years I expect it will HAVE to). Considering the low interest rates and the serious reduction in the costs of goods and services, the actual loss of earnings would be somewhat lower.

But therein lies the biggest problem . . Many public servants have been educated by their self interested unions and take what they say as the gospel. I heard one person say "sure things arent as bad as they are making out" without qualifying what they meant. .Our country is financially crippled and we have one major sector feeling like its being "SINGLED OUT" . . Seriously , it sounds like something you would expect from the townsfolk of the simpsons . .

I dont think anybodys forgotten the Ills of Fianna Fail, but what a majority of us believe is that we need to get our heads down now, get the country back on track and then go after FF. Its unfair of me to say this (I admit that completely) but I wouldnt be overly confident that a Labour/FG would reap much more rewards then FF. Of course they will get their chance and change is needed, but sometimes you need to ask, what kind of change ? Same old Sh*t, differant party ?

What I always find funny (Im not an FF, just objective), is that the opposition partys wanted our government to spend more during the boom . . Its easy for us to throw mud at FF (alot of it well earned), but dont forget that the boys across the bench arent exactly spring chickens. Had FF spent more money like they wanted, we may very well be in an even bigger mess . . Just an observation, dont attack me . .

platinum76

fair enough i agree with you. i do think that the pS has been unfairly targetted from the point of view of an expected pay cut tomorrow on top of the pension levy during the year.

i also believe that we should put the head down as a country and work our way out of this, rather than having a divide created amongst the countries workers into public vs private. this is not creating the sort of positive attitude needed to get things going again. what you think?

Drumpot

platinum76 wrote: »

fair enough i agree with you. i do think that the pS has been unfairly targetted from the point of view of an expected pay cut tomorrow on top of the pension levy during the year.

i also believe that we should put the head down as a country and work our way out of this, rather than having a divide created amongst the countries workers into public vs private. this is not creating the sort of positive attitude needed to get things going again. what you think?

Its not easy for any of us to be honest . . Like you said, head down, hard work and we will come out the other side better for it . .

My gut feeling is that the whole country needs to grow up . . . .

murrayp4

If P.J. Stone & co. ballot for strike action they are inducing rank and file Gardaí to strike and will be guilty of an offence.

Nermal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

arrested by whom?

Coastguard?

seclachi

They signed a contract when they took the job, I dont see how it should be anything less for them. I feel sorry for anybody taking a paycut, but gardai striking is illegal for a reason, and I find it funny how some things ok for the gardai to flout the law they are supposed to enforce. I think the government are right to threaten them too, it could set a dangerous precedent.

murrayp4

Nermal wrote: »

Coastguard?

Don't you mean: "I dunno.....coastguard?"

Darragh29

Drumpot wrote: »

At least you try to articulate your points, for that, you are a step ahead of some of the other posters here . .

What I must pull you up on is that nobody thinks the public sector is to blame for the lack of cash. . You find me posts that say those very words and I will point out a liar. If you really believe this is what a majority of private sector employees (or unemployed) are upset about you have been misinformed. .

People are looking at this from the cold hard facts of how our country is situated financially. Its very basic and simple economics, your employer is making huge losses, he has to cut his costs. People keep quoting their own personal circumstances, but where do we stop with the cuts ? How many people in any sector do not have a hard luck story at the moment ?

Why do you believe that the public service are being targeted ?

You see its comments like that, that really gets to people who have taken what they would consider as "real recession pain". . 11% paycut sounds about right for the state our country is in (to be honest many believe that it could of gone further and in the next few years I expect it will HAVE to). Considering the low interest rates and the serious reduction in the costs of goods and services, the actual loss of earnings would be somewhat lower.

But therein lies the biggest problem . . Many public servants have been educated by their self interested unions and take what they say as the gospel. I heard one person say "sure things arent as bad as they are making out" without qualifying what they meant. .Our country is financially crippled and we have one major sector feeling like its being "SINGLED OUT" . . Seriously , it sounds like something you would expect from the townsfolk of the simpsons . .

I dont think anybodys forgotten the Ills of Fianna Fail, but what a majority of us believe is that we need to get our heads down now, get the country back on track and then go after FF. Its unfair of me to say this (I admit that completely) but I wouldnt be overly confident that a Labour/FG would reap much more rewards then FF. Of course they will get their chance and change is needed, but sometimes you need to ask, what kind of change ? Same old Sh*t, differant party ?

What I always find funny (Im not an FF, just objective), is that the opposition partys wanted our government to spend more during the boom . . Its easy for us to throw mud at FF (alot of it well earned), but dont forget that the boys across the bench arent exactly spring chickens. Had FF spent more money like they wanted, we may very well be in an even bigger mess . . Just an observation, dont attack me . .

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Drumpot

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Agreed . . . .

I know this is may sound a bit arrogant (just using it for the point), but a couple of my friends have suggested that I consider getting into politics . .

It would be something I would possibly enjoy but my main apprehension stems from my belief (may very well be misguided) that to be a politician in this country (and most western countries) you have to give up alot of your morals and ethics to get to the top.

I don't say this because I think all politicians are corrupt, more I believe the people of this country dont necessarily vote for the superior candidates. The politicians that get voted in do so because they tell people what they want to hear and then implement reform/initiatives etc based on populist ideals as opposed to whats best for the long term good of the country.

Theres your catch 22 situation. Imagine being a very credible, intelligent superior candidate and losing out to some of the clowns we see in Dail Eireann. . When you see some of the awful people that get voted in consistantly, it simply makes some of us feel less and less confident with the electorate and Im sure there are plenty of credible candidates who would feel undermined by the narrow mindedness ("sure your mans great, he gets loadsa funds for our local GAA club!") of a mass amount of voters.

The scary question is, do the people of this country want people who look like they can do a job (and can talk the talk) or do they want people who are prepared to make the tough decisions at the expense of popularity. .

We , as a nation, need to grow up. When we FF bash, we insult ourselves to a degree. By saying "I didnt vote FF" all you are doing is passing the book (kinda like saying "I didnt cause the recession). We are all responsible for the state of our country. Obviously in differant levels, but the best way to overcome our pain, we need to accept collective responsibility, draft a plan that makes sense FOR THE COUNTRYS OVERALL LONGTERM GOOD (while not forgetting our most vulnerable) and work harder for less . .

murphaph

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Check my sig. Not sure if they have all the answers but they're hearts are in the right place and their suggestions for political reform at the heart of all reform seems absolutely sound and logical to me. We need to abolish the useless Seanad and get the Dail working as a legislature. To do this I believe we need an end to PRSTV as an electoral system and the introduction of PR List. Political parties should mean a form of stability but in Ireland because of (or at least in no small part due to) PRSTV we have an overgrown County Council for a national parliament. This needs to go.

As a longer term objective I believe Ireland should abolish English common law and replace it with a purely codified legal system which would simplify things greatly and in doing so would reduce the cost of legal services for all. There are precedents for this. As far as I'm concerned it should be elected politicians making our laws and not unelected judges. Laws should be crystal clear and not need 'interpretation' from a judge.

County Councils need abolishing and replacing with regional bodies with power. The current setup dates from bloody elizabethan times FFS. For a country that got its independence almost a hundred years ago we've done surprisingly little with it.

ghost_ie

Long Onion wrote: »

The heads of the GRA have indeed broken the law insofar as they are inciting others to breach the relevant legislation. I do think that arresting them now would be premature and runs the risk of martyrdom.

Should a strike look imminent, then they should be arrested and charged just as anyone else would be - however, should this course of action be followed SEan Fitzpatrck should go down first.

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

danman

ghost_ie wrote: »

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

The Garda act is quite explicite.

If you even attempt to ballot for industrial action, it's against the law.
Even talking about a strike is against the law.

So, yes. It is totally against the law. The example you gave isn't against the law, but there isn't a specific law against that, there is for this.
If the law enforcers in this country don't understand a very simple law, God help us.

gent9662

ghost_ie wrote: »

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

That is different, you don't swear an oath to uphold the Irish constitution. a Guard does. And furthermore they are sworn to uphold the law, in this case the law being not to bring about strike action.

Put another way, if I was a solicitor and was defending a person and I then went off and told somebody else all about the person I was defending that is breaking the oath of confidentiality.