Black Number Plates

galwaygirl08

My sister has just purchased a second hand car. It has black number plates. I am just wondering are these legal? :rolleyes:

colm_mcm

depends on how old the car is, if it's modern (i.e newer than 1990) then they're definitely illegal.

ninty9er

Not unless she's the chief procurement officer for the defence forces.

galwaygirl08

Cheers for replies guys. I didn't think they were legal alrite. Its her first car, she hadn't a clue to be honest. I wonder how the previous owner got away with driving it like that.

jhegarty

ninty9er wrote: »

Not unless she's the chief procurement officer for the defence forces.

Or the car is very old.

Del2005

galwaygirl08 wrote: »

I wonder how the previous owner got away with driving it like that.

Because a lot of laws in this country aren't enforced and the only other time they'd be checked is for the NCT, assuming 4 years or older car, and most people just swap them.

Have you checked the boot for a legit set of plates?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

depends on how old the car is, if it's modern (i.e newer than 1990) then they're definitely illegal.

Newer than 1986 actually

The-Game

Yes 86 is the cutoff i believe, what is the year and make of the car OP??

OldmanMondeo

I think even Pre 1986 you had to use the White background with black typing. Black plates with Sliver typing were for defence forces only.

OldmanMondeo

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I think even Pre 1986 you had to use the White background with black typing. Black plates with Sliver typing were for defence forces only.

Nope, 1986 or before and black with silver print is quite legal.

no1beemerfan

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I think even Pre 1986 you had to use the White background with black typing. Black plates with Sliver typing were for defence forces only.

I've a ZS reg (1986) E30 and the plates on it are black with silver numbers etc. No problem with the bhoys in blue.

alias no.9

RoverJames wrote: »

Newer than 1986 actually

In fact, it's 1991 or newer. In typical Irish fashion, we brought in the new year/county/sequential format from January 1987 but the regulations on the style of plate did not come in until 1991 when the EU style plates became mandatory. I had a 1990 Fiesta with silver on black plates many moons ago and checked it up at the time and it was 100% legal.

funkyjebus

Actually is was 1971. I have no facts or little personal story to back this bold claim up. Just thought I throw a year out there like everyone else:D

But in all seriousness,they are illegal for new cars and legal for old ones, I'm really not sure about the cutoff point / year.

But if you buy a classic car , mgb, etc you are fully entitled to put black plates on it.

alias no.9

alias no.9 wrote: »

In fact, it's 1991 or newer. In typical Irish fashion, we brought in the new year/county/sequential format from January 1987 but the regulations on the style of plate did not come in until 1991 when the EU style plates became mandatory. I had a 1990 Fiesta with silver on black plates many moons ago and checked it up at the time and it was 100% legal.

Apologies to point this out but you are not correct, black and silver plates on a 1990 car are illegal, the regulations are quite clear, registrations post Jan 1st 1987 must be black on a white background. From Ist Jan 1991 you have to have the EU flag and the county the car is registered to (in Irish) on the plate. One of us is correct and it isn't you

The-Game

RoverJames wrote: »

Apologies to point this out but .... One of us is correct and it isn't you

Liar.




You enjoyed every minute of that :cool:

alias no.9

RoverJames wrote: »

Apologies to point this out but you are not correct, black and silver plates on a 1990 car are illegal, the regulations are quite clear, registrations post Jan 1st 1987 must be black on a white background. From Ist Jan 1991 you have to have the EU flag and the county the car is registered to (in Irish) on the plate. One of us is correct and it isn't you

I am wrong, the regulation was created in 1992 and the part enforcing the style of registration plate came in to operation from 1st January 1993.
S.I. No. 318/1992 — Vehicle Registration and Taxation Regulations, 1992.

L1011

alias no.9 wrote: »

I am wrong, the regulation was created in 1992 and the part enforcing the style of registration plate came in to operation from 1st January 1993.
S.I. No. 318/1992 — Vehicle Registration and Taxation Regulations, 1992.

...replacing a 1986 statutory instrument that required black on white for all plates post Jan 1st 1987:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0441.html#zzsi441y1986

afatbollix

oooo noes the licence plate police are here...

you all have collections of them dont you!!!!!

alias no.9

MYOB wrote: »

...replacing a 1986 statutory instrument that required black on white for all plates post Jan 1st 1987:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0441.html#zzsi441y1986

That's what I get for doing half assed searches. I checked with the cops at the time who mustn't either have known or cared about the regulation.

The Big Red Button

galwaygirl08 wrote: »

Cheers for replies guys. I didn't think they were legal alrite. Its her first car, she hadn't a clue to be honest. I wonder how the previous owner got away with driving it like that.

Well it's not that big a deal really, it only costs about thirty euro to get legal ones.

Are you sure that the previous owner doesn't have a set of legal ones anywhere? Does the car have an NCT ... I'm pretty sure legal numberplates are needed for the test. Might be worth giving them a call to check if they have them, it's not like they're any good to them anyways.

I know a lad with a 91 reg car with silver on black plates. He has no hassle from the guards as they appear to agree with him(the ones he has come across anyway) when he says they are allowed on cars from 91 backwards. Maybe they just don't know themselves.

L1011

Jaime Moldy Slump wrote: »

I know a lad with a 91 reg car with silver on black plates. He has no hassle from the guards as they appear to agree with him(the ones he has come across anyway) when he says they are allowed on cars from 91 backwards. Maybe they just don't know themselves.

Guards not knowing motoring laws? Never!

Plates365.com

Vehicles registered on or after 1 January, 1991

For vehicles registered on or after 1 January, 1991, letters and numbers must be black set against a white
background of reflex reflective material. The flag of the European Communities, the Nationality Symbol IRL.
and the Irish language name of the City/County of registration to be shown.

Vehicles Registered on or after 1 January, 1987

For vehicles registered on or after 1 January, 1987, letters and numbers must be black set against a white
background of reflex reflective material.

Vehicles Registered prior to 1 January, 1987

(i)Reflex Reflecting Registration Plates
Front registration plates should have black numbers and letters on a white background. Rear registration
plates should have black numbers and letters on a red or white background.
(ii)Non-Reflex Reflecting Registration Plates
Front and rear registration plates should have white, silver or light grey numbers and letters on a black
background.

I believe black number plates are only aloud on cars over 30 years old as they are not subject to NCT I believe (and the army of course)

Plates365.com

Plates365.com wrote: »

I believe black number plates are only aloud on cars over 30 years old as they are not subject to NCT I believe (and the army of course)

Wrong.......

"
Vehicles Registered prior to 1 January, 1987
(i)Reflex Reflecting Registration Plates
Front registration plates should have black numbers and letters on a white background. Rear registration
plates should have black numbers and letters on a red or white background.
(ii)Non-Reflex Reflecting Registration Plates
Front and rear registration plates should have white, silver or light grey numbers and letters on a black
background.
"

Non reflex can be silver on a black background :rolleyes:

Plates365.com

good catch... I must have been half asleep writing that post

so any car older than 87

Hooch

Jaime Moldy Slump wrote: »

I know a lad with a 91 reg car with silver on black plates. He has no hassle from the guards as they appear to agree with him(the ones he has come across anyway) when he says they are allowed on cars from 91 backwards. Maybe they just don't know themselves.

Send him over to me.......we get friendly reeeeeal quick.....

1987 and lower for black plate. Defence forces vehicle (not just Army) are exempt.

Simples

CharlieCroker

I remember being told in the past that (by another guard) that anything before 91 had no solid regulations and that anything after it had to have the Euro plates.

daveharnett

Can the anpr systems on toll roads read the classic reg. nos?

PanhardPL

I refer you to the Regulations that were introduced by John Boland The Minister for the Environment on the 17th of December 1986. As and from January 1st 1987 the new registration system was being introduced and the only plates to be used on any vehicle from then onwards would be black letters and numbers on a white reflective background, and the next change was made in 1991 by Padraig Flynn, The Minister for the Environment, requiring all vehicles from then onwards to have both the EC flag on a blue background and the full Irish language name of city/county displayed on each plate.
The option of changing to this new style was available to anyone with plates since 1987.
All imported Classic vehicles (over 30 years) could use plates with white lettering on a black background.

L1011

daveharnett wrote: »

Can the anpr systems on toll roads read the classic reg. nos?

Should be no reason why not.

Plates365.com

MYOB wrote: »

Should be no reason why not.

I wouldn't be so sure, being someone with a tech background, whose to say the machines can cope with anything more than black numbers on white background...

Plates365.com

Plates365.com wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, being someone with a tech background, whose to say the machines can cope with anything more than black numbers on white background...

They are used with black on a yellow background in the UK.

R.O.R

Jaime Moldy Slump wrote: »

They are used with black on a yellow background in the UK.

And the ANPR there can't read anything that doesn't have correct spacing.

L1011

Plates365.com wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, being someone with a tech background, whose to say the machines can cope with anything more than black numbers on white background...

I would assume the toll operators - whos job it is to collect as many tolls as possible - would have specced out a system that can read all valid types of plates here (silver on black, black on red, etc for older vehicles).

Anyway, they have the fallback of manual entry for plates where the OCR fails.

BeardyGit

MYOB wrote: »

I would assume the toll operators - whos job it is to collect as many tolls as possible - would have specced out a system that can read all valid types of plates here (silver on black, black on red, etc for older vehicles).

Anyway, they have the fallback of manual entry for plates where the OCR fails.

Silver on black (on a classic car) FTW on the M50 anyway

Saves me a handy €4 each trip.... In fact, that's at least €960 a year saved.... Oh goodie...off to ebay I go!

I did a quick bit of research there and it appears that the images are converted to grey scale before they are processed, on thinking more about it this is an obvious step when doing image processing like this. Silver characters on a black plate would be difficult to distinguish in grey scale so I think it could be very difficult to read them.

Here is a paper for anyone interested on the topic of number plate recognition.

http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~federl/Publications/LicencePlate1996/licence-plate-1996.pdf