Quote Question

krieture

Hey

My mum just received a quote for installation of freeview in her house. She was quoted €1000. This included the dish, all wiring, two boxes and obviously labour. Seems very excessive to me. What are you experiences with quotes for this kind of work or how much did you pay?

Anyone have any suggestions on who to ring etc... South Dublin/North Wicklow region
Thanks

zagmund

It all depends . . .

. . . on the complexity of the install, the amount of labour required, etc . . .

If the house was a standard semi-d and there was no access problem in terms of mounting and positioning the dish and the two cable runs were straight down the wall and into the receiver just behind the wall then it would seem a lot. However, if the runs were complex or your mother wanted the cable runs inside the house to be chased and covered over and it onvolved going under the floorboards to keep it tidy, etc . . . then it could be justified.

This question comes up every so often here and tends to generate a lot of heat in the discussions. It's like going on a car forum and saying "I've been quoted €800 for a service for my car which is only one year old, is this bad value ?" - there's not enough information to judge properly.

*And* value is relative - if your mother gets the service she needs and everything works and she is happy to pay €1,000 for the install then she has got value.

z

Tony

Try ringing around on the supplier sticky thread.

krieture

zagmund wrote: »

It all depends . . .

. . . on the complexity of the install, the amount of labour required, etc . . .

If the house was a standard semi-d and there was no access problem in terms of mounting and positioning the dish and the two cable runs were straight down the wall and into the receiver just behind the wall then it would seem a lot. However, if the runs were complex or your mother wanted the cable runs inside the house to be chased and covered over and it onvolved going under the floorboards to keep it tidy, etc . . . then it could be justified.

This question comes up every so often here and tends to generate a lot of heat in the discussions. It's like going on a car forum and saying "I've been quoted €800 for a service for my car which is only one year old, is this bad value ?" - there's not enough information to judge properly.

*And* value is relative - if your mother gets the service she needs and everything works and she is happy to pay €1,000 for the install then she has got value.

z

i would say its a pretty standard installation with the wire going through the attic and then into the necessary rooms. they already have german satellite up and connected so all necessary holes etc. are there.

i checked up prices for a satellite and 2 receivers and it came to €210. I presume brackets come with the satellite so is wiring really that expensive?

com7

krieture wrote: »

i would say its a pretty standard installation with the wire going through the attic and then into the necessary rooms. they already have german satellite up and connected so all necessary holes etc. are there.

i checked up prices for a satellite and 2 receivers and it came to €210. I presume brackets come with the satellite so is wiring really that expensive?

That sounds outrageous , 790 euro for labour so , how long is he going to be there ? A WEEK maybe

Tony

Guys lets not get carried away with throwing figures without knowing exactly what was quoted for. It does seem high but the guy who quoted is not here (so far anyway) to say what exactly is being provided. If the OP rings around I'm sure he can compare quotes and get a true picture as to whether this is excessive or not.

Tony

What receivers though? Are you sure that is what has been quoted for?

krieture wrote: »

i checked up prices for a satellite and 2 receivers and it came to €210. I presume brackets come with the satellite so is wiring really that expensive?

krieture

Tony wrote: »

What receivers though? Are you sure that is what has been quoted for?

I spoke to someone in DID and thats what he quoted. He didn't specify name or specifics but he said that with that kit you would basically get all channels. Im just thinking.... is the satellite itself hard to set up? i mean is it just trial and error or is it a complicated process? Cos if its easy any spark could do it couldn't they?

i dunno what receivers he quoted my mum for. i mean is thre a massive difference. She just wants a few extra channels and not pay sky.

Tony

I'm guessing the DID guy quoted you for a very basic receiver. The guy who quoted for your mother could have sold her PVR's we just dont know.

Its not that difficult to set up with a basic free to air receiver but an official freesat model is more difficult as it relies on the dish being aligned already. If by spark you mean electricians I have to bite my lip as they have caused more problems than any other trade i know :-) (this is a generalistion just kidding)

Heres a video to show you whats involved in a diy set up but honestly an official freesat receiver has many benefits like automatic channel update and red button features so think long and hard before going the DIY route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-rawdjA0Y

krieture wrote: »

I spoke to someone in DID and thats what he quoted. He didn't specify name or specifics but he said that with that kit you would basically get all channels. Im just thinking.... is the satellite itself hard to set up? i mean is it just trial and error or is it a complicated process? Cos if its easy any spark could do it couldn't they?

i dunno what receivers he quoted my mum for. i mean is thre a massive difference. She just wants a few extra channels and not pay sky.

Finne1993

krieture wrote: »

Hey

My mum just received a quote for installation of freeview in her house. She was quoted €1000. This included the dish, all wiring, two boxes and obviously labour. Seems very excessive to me. What are you experiences with quotes for this kind of work or how much did you pay?

Anyone have any suggestions on who to ring etc... South Dublin/North Wicklow region
Thanks

Scandalous price unless there were 2 Humax Freesat HD pvrs included in the price and even they are included its still a shocking price especially as you say its a fairly standard install.
Any chance you could find out specifically what equipment she was quoted for?

Greenman

Very good video Tony, well done.:)

Tony

Thanks JD

Greenman wrote: »

Very good video Tony, well done.:)

PyeContinental

Tony wrote: »

honestly an official freesat receiver has many benefits like automatic channel update and red button features so think long and hard before going the DIY route.

It doesn't matter if he chooses to put put up the dish himself or not though. T this has nothing to do with Freesat channel updates or red button features. It is the satellite receiver that determines those things.

I put up my own dish and ran cabling to several tv points for a total cost of €80
See here for how I did it:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761436

You can buy a Foxsat HDR Freesat

PyeContinental

Tony wrote: »

honestly an official freesat receiver has many benefits like automatic channel update and red button features so think long and hard before going the DIY route.

It doesn't matter if he chooses to put put up the dish himself or not though. That has nothing to do with Freesat channel updates or red button features. It is the satellite receiver that determines those things.

I put up my own dish and ran cabling to several tv points for a total cost of €80
See here to read about how I did it and how you can too:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761436

You can currently buy a Foxsat HDR Freesat receiver with built in hard disk recorder for about €275 from Richer Sounds. If you already have Sky you don't even have to put up a dish, just replace your Sky box with one of these.

Tony

PyeContinental wrote: »

It doesn't matter if he chooses to put put up the dish himself or not though.

Yes it does, how would he align the dish without signal or quality readings?

izzygill

PyeContinitel has just explained in post link how to do it

Tony

izzygill wrote: »

PyeContinitel has just explained in post link how to do it

I think you need to read his instructions again, good as they are (my compliments to pye) the dont magicially make a signal and quality reading appear on the install screen of an official freesat receiver. I'm speaking from experience gained from listening to customer feedback and the fact remains that FTA receivers are easier to install that official freesat receivers on a DIY basis for most people.

Martin_F

My Bush SD Freesat receivers had a signal meter @ 1st time setup - they wouldn't proceed until the strength was > 50%.

I can't speak for the other Freesat boxes since I've only used the Bush for dish alignment. If I recall a signal meter can be got for approx €15 so either way I can't see a Freesat setup being more difficult than FTA.

I recall though some issues with postcode validation if the alignment is slightly off?

Tony

The signal meter can be activated by more than one satellite just like a satfinder can , thats why signal and quality meters make it easier. I'm going on what I've been told by many many customers and in my book the customer is always right. Thats not to say thet an official Freesat receiver cannot be installed DIY its just more difficult and can take much longer.

PyeContinental

Tony wrote: »

Yes it does, how would he align the dish without signal or quality readings?

I don't really understand the question Tony.
Whether you buy a Freesat satellite receiver or a general satellite receiver that you can use for many satellites, they will all have some kind of signal and/or quality meter.

Either way, what has the purchase of a satellite receiver got to do with a professional or DIY install of the dish?

Tony wrote: »

Its not that difficult to set up with a basic free to air receiver but an official freesat model is more difficult as it relies on the dish being aligned already.

I don't understand this. What's more difficult about a Freesat satellite receiver? If you're saying it will only work once you have the dish correctly aligned, then I would have thought that this would make it easier - in the sense that once it's working you know you have the dish aligned correctly?

Tony wrote: »

I think you need to read his instructions again, good as they are (my compliments to pye) the dont magicially make a signal and quality reading appear on the install screen of an official freesat receiver.

It's not magic Tony, it's physics! :pac: Once you have the dish pointed correctly, you'll have signal and quality readings on your receiver. Where's the problem?

I'm speaking from experience gained from listening to customer feedback and the fact remains that FTA receivers are easier to install that official freesat receivers on a DIY basis for most people.

Why is it easier to install and align a satellite dish with a general satellite receiver instead of a freesat one? I don't understand how this is just a fact. I genuinely can't see what difference it makes.

Tony wrote: »

The signal meter can be activated by more than one satellite just like a satfinder can

Yes, I mention in the instructions I wrote that because there are several satellites in the southern sky you can get a signal reading with a satfinder from any of them if you point your dish at them. Of course you have to use a compass or use the websites I mentioned which use google maps to draw a line for you to aim at in order to point at Astra2 for Freesat. Those websites will also tell you the angle of elevation to set your dish at. Once you've got the vertical axis locked off, this greatly reduces the chance of picking up a false signal from some other satellite, because you can just point to south and then swing the dish back slowly to the east until you hear a beep from the satfinder. Fine tune with this and then you can confirm with the signal and quality meters on your receiver - whether it's Freesat or any digital satellite receiver.

Thats not to say thet an official Freesat receiver cannot be installed DIY its just more difficult and can take much longer.

I'm going on what I've been told by many many customers.

But sure you're the professional, why don't you explain what difference it makes instead of just saying that's what your customers tell you?

and in my book the customer is always right.

That's just a trite cliche and the reality is usually quite the opposite. The phrase originated to remind people who work in any kind of customer service role of the need to smile and remain polite, even with the most difficult of customers, because after all, they will be paying for the service provided (often through the nose it would seem ). It doesn't actually mean the customer knows better. The customer is often rude, unreasonable and has misapprehended basic facts, as you and others point out very well here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055759884

By the way, thanks for the compliment, and I know I probably sound very confrontational, but I'm not - just argumentative!

Tony

You raised the issue many posts back when you questioned why I compared one to the other in answer to the Op's questions. Yes they all have some kind of meter but at risk of repeating myself and I really dont understand why this is being mis understood the practical experience as relayed to me by many customers is that an official freesat receiver is more difficult to align a dish with than a FTA receiver. If this dish is already aligned then its a non issue but the OP was starting from scratch.

PyeContinental wrote: »

I don't really understand the question Tony.

Whether you buy a Freesat satellite receiver or a general satellite receiver that you can use for many satellites, they will all have some kind of signal and/or quality meter.

[/QUOTE]

PyeContinental wrote: »

But sure you're the professional, why don't you explain what difference it makes instead of just saying that's what your customers tell you?

Beacuse the only thing that matters is what end users think and experinece, i did try to explain that official freesat does not have a quality meter when you plug it in. I believe in selling the benefits not the technology, very few people care how it works but they do want it to work quickly and with minimum hassle.

PyeContinental wrote: »

That's just a trite cliche and the reality is usually quite the opposite. The phrase originated to remind people who work in any kind of customer service role of the need to smile and remain polite, even with the most difficult of customers, because after all, they will be paying for the service provided (often through the nose it would seem ).

I think you miss the point whole point of what that means, it is neither trite nor cliched it is a business philosophy. Its nothing to do with smiling or being polite, it has everything to do with listening to what customers say and tailoring your business model to suit. If a customer rings me up and asks for a yoke that gives him lots of channels i can do two things

1. be arrogant and exaplain thats theres not such thing as a yoke

2. Sell him/her a satellite system

PyeContinental wrote: »

By the way, thanks for the compliment, and I know I probably sound very confrontational, but I'm not - just argumentative!

You dont sound confrontational at all, your points are well made and I am glad to have the opportunity to hear your point of view.

PyeContinental

Thanks Tony.

Tony wrote: »

i did try to explain that official freesat does not have a quality meter when you plug it in

Aha! Ok, if you said this before then I missed it. I don't think this is true though. I know that a Humax Foxsat Freesat receiver, which is one of the most popular quality brand models out there, has both signal strength and quality meters. I also know that the LG LF7700 TV with built in Freesat also has both meters.

I can tell you though, with hand on heart, that on my first time installing a satellite dish, using the method I described in the post linked to before, I aligned it perfectly with nothing more than google maps and the satfinder. When I checked the signal and quality meters on the receiver later, I could not improve on what I had already done.

Regarding the "customer is always right" phrase, I think what you really mean is "Give the customer what they want". The "customer is always right" phrase doesn't make any sense if taken literally to mean that a customer always understands the specifics of a technology better than someone who has made it his profession. It's just an idiom which essentially means "money talks".

However, I have to ask - do you have all these customers who specifically ask you to sell them a non-freesat receiver because they think that this will help them to put up their own satellite dish more easily?

Tony

PyeContinental wrote: »

Regarding the "customer is always right" phrase, I think what you really mean is "Give the customer what they want". The "customer is always right" phrase doesn't make any sense if taken literally to mean that a customer always understands the specifics of a technology better than someone who has made it his profession. It's just an idiom which essentially means "money talks".

Its not meant to be taken literally, customers are humans like the rest of us and make mistakes of course but as a retailer you cant say that out loud

PyeContinental wrote: »

However, I have to ask - do you have all these customers who specifically ask you to sell them a non-freesat receiver because they think that this will help them to put up their own satellite dish more easily?

What happened was I started selling official freesat receivers as part of a DIY kit but in almost every case the customer rang to say they could not get it working as they were having difficulty lining up the dish so I went back to selling a standard FTA reeiver with the kit. I'm all for the DIY route as it gets peopole satellite tv at a lower cost but with the margins available you have to sell it in such a way that its truly diy and long phone conversations with the retailer are not necessary.

While we are talking about Freesat I would advise anyone considering buying a Humax Foxsat to buy it before the end of the year up North as the Uk vat rate is reverting back to 17.5 %.

Martin_F

Tony wrote: »

While we are talking about Freesat I would advise anyone considering buying a Humax Foxsat to buy it before the end of the year up North as the Uk vat rate is reverting back to 17.5 %.

That's not entirely necessary - Amazon are selling them for slightly less than Richersounds + free delivery - when they apply Irish VAT it works out a couple of squid over the Richer price - and at least the gov then get the VAT.

I'm not promoting one over the other - just saying there is no need to rush buy.

mjsmyth

I have installed many FTA receivers and perhaps 4 or 5 Freesat receivers. The one thing I noted on install is that many (in fact all) of the FTA receivers I used had some sort of tone that could be used to align the dish, so not only did you get the visual indicator, you also got an audio indicator, which to my mind at least, was more useful when hanging off a ladder. The Freesat receivers (Bush HD and its siblings) do not have that functionality.

It should be noted that I am not a pro, just an avid enthusiast.

Tony

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out.

Martin_F wrote: »

That's not entirely necessary - Amazon are selling them for slightly less than Richersounds + free delivery - when they apply Irish VAT it works out a couple of squid over the Richer price - and at least the gov then get the VAT.

I'm not promoting one over the other - just saying there is no need to rush buy.

PyeContinental

mjsmyth wrote: »

I have installed many FTA receivers and perhaps 4 or 5 Freesat receivers. The one thing I noted on install is that many (in fact all) of the FTA receivers I used had some sort of tone that could be used to align the dish, so not only did you get the visual indicator, you also got an audio indicator, which to my mind at least, was more useful when hanging off a ladder. The Freesat receivers (Bush HD and its siblings) do not have that functionality.

It should be noted that I am not a pro, just an avid enthusiast.

That is interesting. Tony, perhaps it is because of this tone feature that your customers want the generic FTA boxes instead of the Freesat branded ones?

If so, that kind of brings it back to the satfinder again - you have it with you while at the dish and it makes the tone right there for you. I was thinking before that even if some boxes didn't have signal and quality strength meters that you'd have to have someone shout out to you when the meters showed a signal, but by the time they've shouted out to you, you've probably moved past the correct point.

It's got to be more awkward than aligning it vertically from the figure given to you by the google map websites and then horizontally by following the line on the map, and then fine tuning with the satfinder tool.

By the way, this guy here says:
http://freesatuk.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-to-install-freesat-satellite-dish.html
"Use a compass and get your dish pointing directly south and then slowly move the dish east until you get a strong network strength signal and the Network ID is 003b. The Transport Stream on your TV should be 090b"
So you could use that as a further confirmation that you are pointing at the correct satellite.

Tony

No its definitely the quality and signal strenth together plus the ability to check a few individual transponders to avoid duplicate readings.

PyeContinental wrote: »

That is interesting. Tony, perhaps it is because of this tone feature that your customers want the generic FTA boxes instead of the Freesat branded ones?

PyeContinental

Well like I say Tony, even if some Freesat boxes don't let you do that, I definitely think it's easier to use the google map method with a £5 satfinder tool. As an experiment, maybe you could print out my instructions for them and see how they get on following that?

Here's the link again to that thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761436

Tony

Yes I could certainly try as an experiment. Thank you for the kind offer. What i'd like to do is post your instructions on my website with a little editing and of course give you credit and link back to your article. let me know what you think.

PyeContinental wrote: »

Well like I say Tony, even if some Freesat boxes don't let you do that, I definitely think it's easier to use the google map method with a £5 satfinder tool. As an experiment, maybe you could print out my instructions for them and see how they get on following that?

Here's the link again to that thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761436

PyeContinental

Yes, that's fine Tony.

Tony

PyeContinental wrote: »

Yes, that's fine Tony.

Thanks, article posted here, perhaps you might take a look for approval by you.
http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Support___Advice.html

PyeContinental

Hi again Tony, sorry I haven't had a chance to log on in the last few days.
That's all fine - I saw you corrected my typo of caravans as well

I noticed the links didn't come out from the copy and paste. Here are the links in html format so that they will open in a new window when clicked on.

<A HREF="http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm</a>
<A HREF="http://www.dishpointer.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dishpointer.com</a>

<A HREF="http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.htm</a>

I noticed as well that in your address for the page on your website that there are three underscores in the link http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Support___Advice.html
between the words support and advice, just thought I'd mention it, in case it wasn't intentional.

Bye for now

Tony

Wow thats above and beyond the call. Many thanks. Corrected the url also to http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Support_Advice.html

PyeContinental wrote: »

Hi again Tony, sorry I haven't had a chance to log on in the last few days.
That's all fine - I saw you corrected my typo of caravans as well

I noticed the links didn't come out from the copy and paste. Here are the links in html format so that they will open in a new window when clicked on.

<A HREF="http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm</a>
<A HREF="http://www.dishpointer.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dishpointer.com</a>

<A HREF="http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.htm</a>

I noticed as well that in your address for the page on your website that there are three underscores in the link http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Support___Advice.html
between the words support and advice, just thought I'd mention it, in case it wasn't intentional.

Bye for now

PyeContinental

No problem, will be interested to hear how it goes "in the field"