Blanchardstown Village Draft Urban Framework Plan

holly_johnson

Has anyone seen this?
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningItemsOnDisplay/BlanchardstownVillageUDFP-ends171209/publications,30454,en.pdf

Basically it's a development plan for the future of Blanchardstown Village that Fingal Co. Co. comissioned.
It's pretty radical in my opinion.

As a lifelong resident of the village I'm very concerned about it.

Sites 11 & 12 are the two areas for development that concern me most as I'm sandwiched between the two of them. They plan a 6 story building and terraced housing on one side of me and a "landmark" high rise builing on the other!
Plus, a pedestrian pathway through my estate to the centre.

The rest of the plan does not make for fun reading either. Some of the areas they have marked for development include houses where people I know who have lived in the village for years are still living!

Apparently Leo Varadkar is holding a meeting to discuss the plan on Monday Dec 7th at 8pm in the Crowne Plaza Hotel in the Blanchardstown Centre.
Details here:
http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?p=686
I or my husband will certainly be there, but I thought maybe other boardsies might be interested.

Enii

Thanks for this. Will try and make the meeting on Monday night.

Gaspode

Interesting read. I note that 'protection of the Tolka flood plain' features highly in their objectives, and is then totally ignored in their plans! It's all build, build, build with no concern for how the increased water run off wil lbe dealt with.

I note also there were some contributions from local residents - did you get a chance to contribute?

Anyway, I wouldnt worry too much about it, I'd say its like the metro north i.e., complete pie in the sky unless the coutrny suddenly wins the inter-galactic lotto!

holly_johnson

I didn't get a chance to contribute, the first I heard of it was when I got the flyer in the door from Leo Varadkar. If I remember correctly, all the contributors are local business owners or developers or auctioneers who stand to profit from the plan?

I know that it's unlikely that any of it will come to pass, but I'm concerned that it's setting a precedent for future development, and if the plan is approved then there's nothing to stop anyone applying for that kind of planning in the future.

Gaspode

My understanding of it is that it gives the people who approve planning permissions a guide to what would be acceptable, and what wouldnt. Its still a draft, and may be revised significantly before it is approved, or may even be rejected.

Bunnyhopper

I like the idea of better pedestrian links between the village and the town centre.

I don't have much faith in the plans for cycling. What the council has done so far has been very poor, so I don't see any reason to expect that to change any time soon.

Enii

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

I like the idea of better pedestrian links between the village and the town centre.

I don't have much faith in the plans for cycling. What the council has done so far has been very poor, so I don't see any reason to expect that to change any time soon.

I'm in agreement. This needs to be worked on AND soon - it is terrible all those kids climbing over the wall on the Snugborough Road at the roundabout.

I would also like to see more facilities for pedestrians and cyclists.

Mister Robinson

The prospect of making Blanch look a more lavish, up to date town does sound interesting and would be nice to see with the exception that it wont affect anyone living in the areas that are being looked at.

The only problem is everything will be apartment blocks meaning this area will become more populated and lead to more traffic, increase in need for schools,GP's and possibly a bigger upgrade to Connelly hospital as well as everyday needs. Basically there will be building sites everywhere. On the plus side it could create job's.

The time it would take to make this kind of plan work could be years away if they started now. With the objections to neighboring areas and also taking this long to upgrade the Navan road -> M50 which causes heavy traffic would make the possibility of this happening look well into the future. They should at least finish current developments before planning more.

I'm sure the Bell wont be willing to give up their car park and have it replaced by blocks of apartments, as well as the areas that will be affected, but then again no one refuses money....

If the metro line was to be implemented, I would favor that as it would be handy to have in this area!

holly_johnson

Enii wrote: »

I'm in agreement. This needs to be worked on AND soon - it is terrible all those kids climbing over the wall on the Snugborough Road at the roundabout.

I would also like to see more facilities for pedestrians and cyclists.

Well, as bad as it may be with kids who live in my estate climbing over the wall, there's no way I'm going to agree to anyone and everyone walking through my estate to save 5 or 10 minutes getting to the centre.
It's lovely and quiet here and safe to let the kids out to play. That would all go if there was a free passage through the estate!

CrazyRabbit

holly_johnson wrote: »

Well, as bad as it may be with kids who live in my estate climbing over the wall, there's no way I'm going to agree to anyone and everyone walking through my estate to save 5 or 10 minutes getting to the centre.
It's lovely and quiet here and safe to let the kids out to play. That would all go if there was a free passage through the estate!

So punish thousands of people because of the potential actions of a few scumbags who may cause minor trouble.

Walking from my house to the Centre takes 30 mins. I'd gladly welcome 10 mins off that. I promise not to kidnap or beat up your kids on my way through...

And besides....'anyone and everyone' have the RIGHT to walk through PUBLIC areas/paths/. They don't need your consent.

Nevyn

I also live near to the shopping centre and with a new set of pedestrain lights there is a lot more foot traffic through the estate rather then people using the road around it.

It doesn't bother me, I live oppsite a quiet cul de sac and it's just as quiet and it's not impacted on the children being out playing or them not being safer.

Is your concern the access to the centre or the types of people who would be using that route to get to the socail welfare offices?
As of when it opens it will be the shortest root from a bus stop on the 39 route to those offices.

Enii

holly_johnson wrote: »

Well, as bad as it may be with kids who live in my estate climbing over the wall, there's no way I'm going to agree to anyone and everyone walking through my estate to save 5 or 10 minutes getting to the centre.
It's lovely and quiet here and safe to let the kids out to play. That would all go if there was a free passage through the estate!

What about a bit of community spirit and inclusiveness?

BostonB

The impact of changing a cul de sac into a through way, might not be minor. I lived on a road once in D.15 that only had pedestrian access to the local bus stop. A spate of break ins, and car thefts, resulted in the access being walled up. Problems stopped.

Of course then we were plagued with kids using the cul de sac as a playground.

Bunnyhopper

holly_johnson wrote: »

Well, as bad as it may be with kids who live in my estate climbing over the wall, there's no way I'm going to agree to anyone and everyone walking through my estate to save 5 or 10 minutes getting to the centre.
It's lovely and quiet here and safe to let the kids out to play. That would all go if there was a free passage through the estate!

It's a public place already, so anyone and everyone can walk in there as it is. I'm not pretending that increased footfall won't have some impact, but I think the notion that you'll have to lock up the kids if it's not a cul-de-sac is a bit sensationalist.

The overwhelming (hugely so) majority of pedestrians would be perfectly law-abiding individuals whose presence during the day would probably make an estate safer, if anything. Malicious individuals will find their way into where they want regardless, cul-de-sac or not. A gate that was locked at night (similar to the Roselawn Road-Ramor Park one) could be a great convenience to people.

When the green space between Broadway and Summerfield estates was opened up there were similar alarmist concerns expressed by some Broadway residents who seemed to expect the Mongol hordes to invade their nice cul-de-sac. Actual result? Nothing much, bar a few more pedestrians and probably some of those kids you mentioned playing happily on a nice green area.

Thanks all the same for telling me that I can add twenty minutes to every one of my trips to the shopping centre because you don't want me in your estate, because that's what it amounts to. Maybe I should drive instead and pump even more pollution into the air that those playing kids are breathing?

To be serious, what would worry me more about opening up pedestrian access is that you'd get people driving into the estate, parking up and walking through to the centre. The parking management would be key to any pedestrian access through a residential estate.

pondasher

holly_johnson wrote: »

Well, as bad as it may be with kids who live in my estate climbing over the wall, there's no way I'm going to agree to anyone and everyone walking through my estate to save 5 or 10 minutes getting to the centre.
It's lovely and quiet here and safe to let the kids out to play. That would all go if there was a free passage through the estate!

In the original planning permission for your estate there was a walkway included as part of the conditions. The walkway never happened for some unknown reason. I am delighted to see it included now.

santry_goonshow

pondasher wrote: »

In the original planning permission for your estate there was a walkway included as part of the conditions. The walkway never happened for some unknown reason. I am delighted to see it included now.

We had this thread here a year ago or something. I find the idea of the wall at Springlawn and Summerfield to be disgusting, and when I went to research it I found that the Council chickened out of two or three attempts to put in the opening that was on the original planning application. The wall was created by the developer instead of doing his snag lists or something like that.

I work in Blanch a fair bit and I have to say I cannot understand why people want to have their backs to the great services in the town centre and want to hoof their [ever fatter ] kids into cars because the "official" walk is too long to bundle them to school. Unless the kids are pole vaulters. :P

More pedestrians getting down and back to the village is better not worse for crime. If you live anywhere in postcodes 1-10 that were laid out in a more civilised time you got used to seeing other pedestrians. You will get over it, we all do.

santry_goonshow

This was the thread where that was discussed.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055220210&referrerid=149166

BostonB

santry_goonshow wrote: »

...... I cannot understand why people want to have their backs to the great services in the town centre and want to hoof their [ever fatter ] kids into cars because the "official" walk is too long to bundle them to school. Unless the kids are pole vaulters.....

The people complaining about needing to drive, and wanting a 10mins shorter walk, were those who didn't want a wall.

Name calling and/or insults about people kids. Nice.

santry_goonshow wrote: »

...More pedestrians getting down and back to the village is better not worse for crime. ....

If theres no crime, why is the earlier example in Roselawn locked at night.

BostonB

A laneway with direct access to a night club. Thats a joy that won't stop giving.

Enii

BostonB wrote: »

A laneway with direct access to a night club. Thats a joy that won't stop giving.

It could be locked at 10pm.

BostonB

The other thread covers the pros and cons of that.

Of course if you think it needs locking that says it all.

Enii

BostonB wrote: »

The other thread covers the pros and cons of that.

Of course if you think it needs locking that says it all.

I never said it needs to be locked. I said it could be locked.

Gaspode

OK Folks, thre is more to this plan than a gap in one wall. A thread on the wall in questions has been resurrected, so that can be used for that conversation.

Has nobody any opinions on the rest or general overall aims of the plan?

Luttrell1975

Gaspode wrote: »

OK Folks, thre is more to this plan than a gap in one wall. A thread on the wall in questions has been resurrected, so that can be used for that conversation.

Has nobody any opinions on the rest or general overall aims of the plan?

Yes. But dont pretend that the illegal wall isnt part of getting more people walking between old village and new centre. the map in the engineering report makes that really clear.

BostonB

Gaspode wrote: »

OK Folks, thre is more to this plan than a gap in one wall. A thread on the wall in questions has been resurrected, so that can be used for that conversation.

Has nobody any opinions on the rest or general overall aims of the plan?

Maybe its not relevent, but I can't see how theres funds to any of this. Theres more inportant things to spend money on at the moment.

As someone stated earlier. The main problem with the area is over development, an inadequate transport infrastructure, especially with regard to roads. All over Dublin theres an over supply/development of new office space, and probably apartments too. Its hard to rent/sell either.

Yet every new development plan seem to have more housing, more office space, and yet more traffic. Thats some funky logic right there.

I'm all for creating more civic spaces. But considing the draioct and the library, cinema etc is all in the Shopping center its seems to me they've tried to move this all to the shopping center. Why are they changing focus back to the village? Even the metro isn't going near it. I'm a bit confused by it to be honest. What kinda Village do we want it to be like? Swords Main Street? Rathmines, Monkstown? the Docklands?

As for cycling. The piority should be to build cycle lane superways into town. At the moment there isn't even one that goes from D.15 into the Park. I would guess theres vastly more people who would cycle into work/city center than cycle around Blanchardstown. That would be my priority. How about a D.15 only DublinBike scheme?

Gaspode

BostonB wrote: »

Maybe its not relevent, but I can't see how theres funds to any of this. Theres more inportant things to spend money on at the moment.

Agree with you on that. It could be many years before the money, or the will, is there to start developments like those proposed. There are better things to spend public money on.

BostonB wrote: »

Yet every new development plan seem to have more housing, more office space, and yet more traffic. Thats some funky logic right there.

That's the truth of the matter nailed on the head. The authors of this and other development plans seem to see development as 95% building, and 5% other (to them) less important stuff. Us mere citizens tend to see it the other way around.

santry_goonshow

Gaspode wrote: »

Agree with you on that. It could be many years before the money, or the will, is there to start developments like those proposed. There are better things to spend public money on.


That's the truth of the matter nailed on the head. The authors of this and other development plans seem to see development as 95% building, and 5% other (to them) less important stuff. Us mere citizens tend to see it the other way around.

Dont want to re-open some ad homs from earlier but people really need to read this: http://www.dohc.ie/publications/report_taskforce_on_obesity.html Don't lets pretend this isnt happening to kids. Fact R Facts.

Gaspode did you read the report by the Council? Even just on a scan you can see a big square, the walkways, a foot bridge, signage, street surfacing, burying 'leccies, and the tolka riverbank developed as proper greens. Dont think the 90/10 is a fair description of how much development and improvement is proposed.

All to make Blanchardstown look nicer and help people enjoy it more.

It doesnt matter anyway how good the plan is if you get a meddling Councilor and a few Nimby instincts you may as well put the slum signs up on the village now. Especially if the Superquinn goes. Then you will know what trouble is....

BostonB

The earlier ad hom was a insult not an argument. It didn't make any sense anyway. As it was arguing for walking less not more.

I hope your right and they don't develop the offices and apartments first. Because thats what usually happens. I don't see why they need multistory building to make it a nicer place. Just like we need high density housing in Kellystown / Porterstown like a hole in the head.

The area is overdeveloped, with regard to housing. Which puts yet more pressure on the area. Yet every plan to improve the area for existing residents, has more housing on it.

Gaspode

santry_goonshow wrote: »

Dont want to re-open some ad homs from earlier but people really need to read this: http://www.dohc.ie/publications/report_taskforce_on_obesity.html Don't lets pretend this isnt happening to kids. Fact R Facts.

Gaspode did you read the report by the Council? Even just on a scan you can see a big square, the walkways, a foot bridge, signage, street surfacing, burying 'leccies, and the tolka riverbank developed as proper greens. Dont think the 90/10 is a fair description of how much development and improvement is proposed.

All to make Blanchardstown look nicer and help people enjoy it more.

It doesnt matter anyway how good the plan is if you get a meddling Councilor and a few Nimby instincts you may as well put the slum signs up on the village now. Especially if the Superquinn goes. Then you will know what trouble is....

I did read it, and while my metrics may be off (a tad), I still feel it is very heavily weighted toward build, build, build. As have any previous such plans I've read in the past. The lack of any plans to deal with possible deleterious effects on the Tolka flood plain also add to my scepticism.

!!

eddie

There is an "Extraordinary Summerfield Resident's Association Meeting @ 8pm tonight 14th Dec in Coolmine Community School to discuss "RE: Blanchardtown Town Center Masterplan, potential impact for both estates and need for response from all residents. Invitation extended to Springfield Residents. "

pondasher

Since moving into the area almost 30yrs ago I have never experienced such N.I.M.B.Y.ism The facts remain that the walkway was on the original planning permission and anyone purchasing a house would or should have inspected same The inclusion of the walkway is only the council following through on the plan. People are 10yrs too late

BostonB

By that logic they should clear all the walls and gates that weren't on the original plans. Because why they were walled up and gated isn't important. Not if you don't have to live beside it anyway.

pondasher

BostonB wrote: »

By that logic they should clear all the walls and gates that weren't on the original plans. Because why they were walled up and gated isn't important. Not if you don't have to live beside it anyway.

One is entitled to build walls and erect gates in front of their property as long as they comply with certain guidelines.
I'm glad the people of Coolmine Rd or Roselawn Rd dont have the same logic as some people in your estate or nobody could get their daily shopping. Again its ok for your residents to walk or dare I say drive through other peoples areas to shop but its not ok for the people of Roselawn and Coolmine to walk through your estate.

BostonB

pondasher wrote: »

One is entitled to build walls and erect gates in front of their property as long as they comply with certain guidelines.

We're not talking about private property. Why are you?

pondasher wrote: »

I'm glad the people of Coolmine Rd or Roselawn Rd dont have the same logic as some people in your estate or nobody could get their daily shopping. Again its ok for your residents to walk or dare I say drive through other peoples areas to shop but its not ok for the people of Roselawn and Coolmine to walk through your estate.

We're not talking about where I live, why are you?

Luttrell1975

eddie wrote: »

There is an "Extraordinary Summerfield Resident's Association Meeting @ 8pm tonight 14th Dec in Coolmine Community School to discuss "RE: Blanchardtown Town Center Masterplan, potential impact for both estates and need for response from all residents. Invitation extended to Springfield Residents. "

Was the meeting only for residents or was it for the general public. I was just wondering because my parents heard NOTHING about it. I would have gone if I knew.