worried i'm going to be out of work too long

Drawing Dead

hi all,

i graduated with a 2.1 in mech eng a year ago. i got engineering work experience for the summer between 3rd and 4th year and after college i travelled and got about 4 months experience in mechanical drafting in sydney before christmas

been back in ireland since june and obviously been having a hard time looking for work. i've had two interviews with different engineering companies, both of which i got through to the final interviews but since then silence, dispite me ringing up both companies several times i just get told vague stuff about managment looking at options and stuff and i never get a call back. sounds to me like they decided not to take anyone on but don't want to say so incase something comes up and they actually end up having a job for someone they interviewed. anyway thats just me speculating.

however these experiences have obviously angered me quite a bit and i'm getting disillusioned with engineering. i'm worried that the country could be like this for a long time to come and i wont have gotten any experience in engineering for 3,4, or 5 years. i'm worried that when jobs do become available companies wont look at me because of my lack of work and instead will employ fresh graduates with equilivent work experience as me. i'm wondering can anyone tell me if this assumption is true?

i'm guessing people here will tell me to volunteer for work but all the contacts i have in engineering aren't too keen on giving me that as obviously it looks bad to their employees that they just let people go and then they take me on working for free. also i don't view phds or masters as an option simply because i can't afford to do a phd and i'm afraid to get into dept to do a one year masters as it is very likely that after a year the country will still be in the same sh*t and i'll just be jobless and massively in dept. i'm sure people know the problems with emigrating as its very hard to get a visa if you're a graduate and companies are more willing to employ graduate engineers from their own country as they are less likely to leave.

so, my question is, is it worth my while waiting around for 3, 4 or 5 years doing fas courses and trying to look for a job doing anything to get by. and will i still be employable as an engineer after this time? if not my only other option really is to go back to college and do a degree with a gauranteed job at the end of it so i could pay back a student loan. but i despair at the thought of this as engineering is what i want to do and its so depressing that after my 4years of study other people f*ck up this country and as a graduate i'm just pushed to the side, surpless to requirements.

imported_guy

im doing mechanical engineering as well, things dont look too good, if your looking at going back to college for another degree, look at medicine, GRADUATE ENTRY to be specific, you do a test called GAMSAT (u need to have decent physics/chemistry/biology) you can prepare for it etc, seems do able, its one of my options for after i graduate, you need a top 20% or so score on the curve, and a 2.1 degree which you already have, so half the battle is over, , btw how hard was it getting a 2.1? were you far off from a 1st?, how many extra hours did you put in? what was your project? :P thanks... , and this medicine course is 4 years compared to the normal 5 yr one

Pete67

Don't just apply to engineering companies, they are really feeling the effects of the recession as there are not many new large projects kicking off. Try all kinds of manufacturing and service companies as well, especially pharma and medical devices, as they are a bit more sheltered from the recession than most sectors. Also make sure you are registered with all the agencies for both contract and permanent work, it might not be exactly the type of work you want but all experience counts. Best of luck!

Cheeble

Drawing Dead wrote: »

i graduated with a 2.1 in mech eng a year ago. i got engineering work experience for the summer between 3rd and 4th year and after college i travelled and got about 4 months experience in mechanical drafting in sydney before christmas.

Firstly, congratulations, you're off to a good start. Having got a good degree and then mixed travel with work experience, rather than just bumming around for a year, puts you ahead of the game.

I've had two interviews with different engineering companies, both of which i got through to the final interviews but since then silence, dispite me ringing up both companies several times i just get told vague stuff about managment looking at options and stuff and i never get a call back. sounds to me like they decided not to take anyone on but don't want to say so incase something comes up and they actually end up having a job for someone they interviewed. anyway thats just me speculating.

That's certainly possible. However, the other possibility is that you are their second choice, and they don't want to lose you as an option until their first choice has definitely taken up the job. It's important not to let your anger show, but to maintain contact and continue to show your enthusiasm for the job until you are certain that it's dead and gone. And even then, take the opportunity to ask them if they know of anybody else who might be recruiting. Keep on good terms, word does occassionally get around.

however these experiences have obviously angered me quite a bit and i'm getting disillusioned with engineering.

That's understandable, and a great pity, but try to understand and mitigate your anger. It's likely root cause is a natural reaction to the rejection of being turned down. Remember also, that it's not (necessarily) the company's fault that we're in a recession, and that they too have plenty of problems to contend with. Being angry won't help your employment prospects unless you can channel it positively.

i'm worried that the country could be like this for a long time to come and i wont have gotten any experience in engineering for 3,4, or 5 years. i'm worried that when jobs do become available companies wont look at me because of my lack of work and instead will employ fresh graduates with equilivent work experience as me. i'm wondering can anyone tell me if this assumption is true?

If you've done nothing for 3,4 or 5 years, then yes. But that's not what you're planning, is it!

i'm guessing people here will tell me to volunteer.......
.......as a graduate i'm just pushed to the side, surpless to requirements.

The key point is don't do nothing. Given a choice between two otherwise equal candidates, one who has done nothing for three years, and one who has flipped burgers for three years, I'd employ the burger flipper every time. I'm not suggesting that's what you do, but maybe you have to broaden the scope of your dream job, and be prepared to try your hand at anything until things improve. That's what the rest of us are doing, and you are better qualified than most.

Cheeble-eers

Turbulent Bill

'Transferable skills' can be a bit of a cliche, but it has real value to employers. If there's no chance of you getting a job in the area(s) you're interested in (either paid or voluntary) at the moment then build the skills you'll need when one does arise. Generic skills like communication, teamwork, problem solving etc. can all be demonstrated in non-engineering jobs or through voluntary/charity work, and these will give you a head start over fresh graduates.

Good luck!

Drawing Dead

imported_guy wrote: »

im doing mechanical engineering as well, things dont look too good, if your looking at going back to college for another degree, look at medicine, GRADUATE ENTRY to be specific, you do a test called GAMSAT (u need to have decent physics/chemistry/biology) you can prepare for it etc, seems do able, its one of my options for after i graduate, you need a top 20% or so score on the curve, and a 2.1 degree which you already have, so half the battle is over, , btw how hard was it getting a 2.1? were you far off from a 1st?, how many extra hours did you put in? what was your project? :P thanks... , and this medicine course is 4 years compared to the normal 5 yr one

hi, thanks for that advice, i am actually already studying for the test and after the exam i'll do all the things the other posters here have recommended.
getting a 2.1 isn't that hard, don't get me wrong you have to do the work but it is very doable. i think i was about 3 or 4% off a first but the reality is that those extra few percentages are a lot of work. mostly you just need to get your time managment right and don't be dossing around when you're supposed to be studying. my down fall was that sometimes i can find it very hard to get myself to sit down and study efficiently. in terms of the work i put in, i put in an awful lot. can't really remember exactly how many hours i put in but if you're spending all your day in lectures, doing projects and working on your final year project, and then spending all evening and weekends studying you're heading in the right direction. towards the last couple of months especially i didn't do much else but my degree. final year isn't much fun but the idea is you only ever have to do it once. my project was on casting and the defects that can be caused during cooling and understanding exactly how they happen. a bit of advice though; a lot of people in my class didn't do much of their project before christmas and as a result they spent a lot of time after christmas doing it and rushed it towards the end and also, obviously had less time to study. so try and evenly space out your work. some of us also went into college for a week or two in january during the holidays to do our projects. if you're allowed to do this then do as you'll get so much done in a week when you don't have other bits of college work taking up your time.
goodluck with your degree.

Krieg

You are not alone!

In fact quite the mirror image, although industrial engineer here.

Ive applied to countless tech/eng jobs but not even an interview.

Im currently doing operator work in a factory through a recruitment agency, with the intention of making good impressions and then moving ahead. Ive applied to 2 technician jobs within the organisation but still no interview.
My supervisor is a really sound out guy and honest when I ask him to be. In both cases I was up against nearly 100 applicants, many of whom were factory veterans.

I more than understand companies positions, even if I was in management right now providing interviews, I have little doubt that I would take the cream of the crop. Thats what its all about at the end of the day.

It is pretty depressing, Its hard to know what you have to do to get any kind of chance to prove yourself. Out of the 12 people I graduated with, None are working in areas that are relevant to the qualification.

pepsi1234

Chemical Engineering graduate here (2.1). Couldn't find any work relevant to degree so do a menial minimum wage job! I recommend moving to Asia to teach English until the recesson blows off. That's what I'm planning to do.

Mahony

Hey one things for sure your not alone,

Im currently in final year Civil (prob the worst one) at the moment and before the christmas I pplied to all the accountacny firms and consultancy, thought maybe I could ride out the recession working for them. Im currently to on a 2:1 and got offered a position with KPMG (tax) doing a PDA for one year which they will pay for then 3 year working contact, or straight 3 year working contract with grant thornton (Advisory)

I know its not engineering but I felt it was a good option to ride out the recession,

The other obvious option is Masters and seems to be the popular one have you considered this or if like me cant afford it financially.

GAMSAT I considered to but Im 23 and I don't know if I want to wait that long

Another option my friend is taking is a one year change over course in Actuary in UCD, its a quick change of career get out idea.

I would agree with 'Cheeble', don't do nothing for a few years would look bad in my opinion.

Corkman1

Mahony - your spot on!!! Just recently completed my contract with KPMG. The work itself is not that interesting, but the experience of working in such an organisation and getting your accounting qualification is worth it.

I worked with graduates with degrees in engineering, science, computers, languages etc, so dont be put off it you didnt do accounting in college. I hadnt a clue about accounting before I joined, most people dont, but you get good support/study leave to help you get through.

My advice to any graduates looking for a job is to either a) apply for jobs in a different area to your degree b) upskill through training organisations as you said as it can only add to you CV and show a willingness to improve.

All the best in your future anyways and dont be too disheartened as you have a good 2.1 degree, its not your fault you came out of college at a bad time.

Mahony

Cheers Corkman1 for your experience. I think everyone has got to adapt at the moment like emigrating, or broaden your horizons in your career, think outside the box. the tide will turn again it always does!

quick question if you dont mind....... I took grant thornton over KPMG cuase they allowed me to skip the PDA and was advisory over Tax but was that a smart decision, Im kinda worried that KPMG cause its a better company would have been better?

Corkman1

Grant Thornton is the same size as BDO so it is a top 6 accounting firm. KPMG is a top 4, so i suppose it would be a slightly better name on your CV. However, the experience is the same in both. Any future employers would recognise that Grant Thornton is a large accounting firm.

In my opinion, I think you made the correct choice based on the offers available to you. Reasons:
a) Start the contract as soon as possible and to do all exams - CAP1,CAP2 and FAEs within contract as you will get study leave each summer... helps to break up work. Dont get me wrong, study is though, but your time is your own to manage.
b) You prefered the advisory dept to the tax. No point going into a department which you wont like.

If you have any other questions about a/c etc, feel free to ask.

dan_d

Don't worry about graduating as an engineer and not getting a job as an engineer.The majority of engineering grads in this country in the last say, 15 years are not working as engineers now. Many are in finance or management positions in companies that have nothing to do with any sort of engineering. Depressing though it is in many ways, it's the beauty of an engineering degree - it's extremely transferrable.
I don't know what's going to happen this year. It's obvious nobody in power could care less about the industries that engineers might be required in, regardless of the lip service they pay to a "smart economy". They're going to lose the graduates from courses such as engineering, to other countries...the people that we actually need to help get us out of this mess.Do whatever you can get your hands on - don't purely confine yourself to engineering.
I'm 4 years and change out of UCD civil engineering. All of my friends have taken pay cuts, and are expecting 3 day weeks this year. We don't know where this is all going. And we're looking at every other alternative. I'd guess that by this time next year, at least half of us, if not all, will be in a completely different field of work.

spideog7

dan_d wrote: »

Don't worry about graduating as an engineer and not getting a job as an engineer.The majority of engineering grads in this country in the last say, 15 years are not working as engineers now. Many are in finance or management positions in companies that have nothing to do with any sort of engineering.

It's all good and well saying that or suggesting people do medicine or accounting if they go back to school, if all ye want at the end of the day is a job. Personally I did engineering not because it looked good or sounded good but that's what I want to do. I don't understand how anyone would go through all the work of doing an engineering degree if ye've no interest in getting into the industry. I mean fair enough it's hard to get work and sometimes the work or degree isn't what you thought it was but this is the engineering forum after all so surely people on here have at least some interest in Engineering??

The attitude here seems fairly defeatist to me and I know the feeling because I'm a graduate and I have a job until May, after that I'm back to searching for work again. If I was hiring an engineer and he/she said that if they didn't end up getting a job soon they'd pack it in and try something else well I wouldn't be too pushed to take them on because they obviously don't have their heart in it.

At the end of the day people need to make a living.

Someone above mentioned that pharma and med device companies are sheltered from the recession, maybe from our Irish recession but they are all tightening their belts and many are letting go loads of contract and temporary folk.

Anton.Mamyko

ah lads.....
undergrad In Mech Eng in CIT. Going through a tough year with (current) hard exams-and this is not helping the morale at all at all.....
What are the countries that take on engineers still?

Anton.Mamyko

Anton.Mamyko wrote: »

ah lads.....
undergrad In Mech Eng in CIT. Going through a tough year with (current) hard exams-and this is not helping the morale at all at all.....
What are the countries that take on engineers still?

I feel for you, did my degree in CIT, 4th year was not fun. I don't think any country is awash with jobs to be honest. A few qualified people I know are out of work and no sign of them going abroad, one was in Oz and Canada and found no work. One of the buddies did emigrate to Oz three months back (for love), he packed up his job here and moved over, eventually got some part time engineering work, he was looking a while though.

My contract is up at the end of March so am doing some looking around myself at the moment, I won't say anymore as I don't want to damage your morale any further. Best of luck with the exams, don't worry too much about them, there is more to life, regardless of passing or failing them life goes on.

Anton.Mamyko

thanks mate.
Even though this year is the hardest yet (3/4) I am more focused than ever so I think I will end up getting the degree. This thread is a kick in the nuts but I am not too depressed because education is more than a ticket to be a worker-thinking like an engineer will always (maybe not always hehe) come in handy.
You did the Hons. degree ye? How did you find your degree standing vs other IT/uni's degrees? I have a (possibly misguided) view that the CIT degree is the "better" one?
I wish you luck in looking for work!
and I know you wish the same for me, I have to find a good work placement to give me experience and an idea for the final project.

I did the Applied Physics and Instrumentation course, was 4 years, hons degree I ended up with. I have worked in quite a few multinationals now and in Munster the CIT courses are exceptionally well thought of in industry.

DJDC

The reality is that Ireland is a small country of 4 million people with little or no heavy industry so opportunities for graduate engineers will always be limited. 2002-2008 was a construction bubble and all those related jobs aren't coming back anytime soon. There is also an oversupply in graduates due to the explosion in higher level participation in the last 20 years which compunds the situation.

Look at anytime before 1995, the vast majority of graduate engineers emigrated, there wasnt enough opportunities in Ireland. They went to the large English speaking countries like US and UK but then they didn't have to compete with Indian and Chinese engineers. These two countries are exporting vast amounts of clever and hard working graduates which the Irish graduate will be competing with for any international jobs. The cold truth is that the future doesn't look good for the majority of Irish engineering graduates.

The one thing I will say for anyone in college is that now it's even more important to get experience during your college years (and it was always something that was important!). Where I am we took on one graduate this year, and this was a 'special case' since it was someone who was working with us during the previous summer.

PDelux

There is also an oversupply in graduates due to the explosion in higher level participation in the last 20 years which compunds the situation.

This is a very interesting point which could probably have its own thread devoted to it. Its not just Ireland but the same situation in many countries. With so many people qualified how is it possible to have as many highly skilled jobs? It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

The reality is that Ireland is a small country of 4 million people with little or no heavy industry so opportunities for graduate engineers will always be limited.

In Ireland and the UK there are so many small engineering companies that you never hear about. I deal with them daily in my work. They will never advertise jobs, if they need someone, they'll get someone based on their contacts in the industry.

The cold truth is that the future doesn't look good for the majority of Irish engineering graduates.

I can see where you're coming from but I think this whole 'green energy' push could be a sign of hope. Ireland should be investing in areas where it has an advantage and renewable energy is the obvious one.

imported_guy

PDelux wrote: »

This is a very interesting point which could probably have its own thread devoted to it. Its not just Ireland but the same situation in many countries. With so many people qualified how is it possible to have as many highly skilled jobs? It'll be interesting to see how this develops.


In Ireland and the UK there are so many small engineering companies that you never hear about. I deal with them daily in my work. They will never advertise jobs, if they need someone, they'll get someone based on their contacts in the industry.


I can see where you're coming from but I think this whole 'green energy' push could be a sign of hope. Ireland should be investing in areas where it has an advantage and renewable energy is the obvious one.

we have nothing to blame except the irish education system, we dont have enough irish doctors graduating hence, every single doctor you see is pakistani/indian/arab/canadian/african, we have too many engineering graduates (practically every single college has engineering courses/diplomas/higher certs), so we have graduates who are jobless, we need to take in LESS students into engineering courses, so we can create BETTER engineers and give them better prospects of jobs.

Eoin D

Dónal wrote: »

The one thing I will say for anyone in college is that now it's even more important to get experience during your college years (and it was always something that was important!). Where I am we took on one graduate this year, and this was a 'special case' since it was someone who was working with us during the previous summer.

haha, this 'special case' sounds very much like a good friend of mine....

From a depressing point of view it's not only graduates that need worry

- engineers, architects etc who recently lost their jobs due to the collapse in the building game may be years before they find work along the lines of what they used to do
- many electronics companies have left over the last decade, most recent one being Dell, Digital went years ago in Galway, who thinks EMC and Apple will employ as many people here in the manufacturing end of their business in 10 years time
- many of the medical device companies now have sister plants in China and South America that are being given some older products to manufacture, it's only a matter of time before they are given some premium products. Also in many cases Ireland is more expensive to manufacture in than the states, our only saving grace being the tax breaks and the reality that the yields here are often better than from similar production lines in the Sates.
- the pharmacutical industry as seen some relatively recent carnage too, the Pfizer plants shut down, Elan shut a new building so too did GSK.
- loads of the smaller companies who have a significant proportion of their customer base in the UK are really struggling due to the weakness of Stering.

Future defo not bright at the moment unfortunately. It's a pity Amgen didn't go ahead with their project in Cork, the domino effect of people leaving jobs to work there would have been huge and a real boost to Ireland.

PDelux

following from what RoverJames said, i heard many engineers who lost their jobs in Motorola not so long ago formed their own small companies(one was mentioned in this months Innovation magazine).
So it wouldnt be so bad if there was a migration from working for big companies to some smaller startup-type companies. Many wouldn't survive but the strong ones should be ok and grow to become good medium-sized companies employing more engineers. That could the future for engineering in Ireland - smaller companies specialising in niche areas.

lee_

Hey OP just wondering what you ended up doing, this being a year later